Why is giving way to buses not a legal requirement?

hkstudent · 29 Oct 2021

In the UK, it is in Highway Code that driver should give way to bus when trying to pull out.
However, as it ia not legal requirement, many drivers will just ignore that given that there will be no consequences.
Then, given that there's no use to put that on Highway Code, why doesn't government to codify the requirement toake that useful or remove that from Highway Code as it is not very useful?
Many countries like Australia and Singapore already made the same provision.

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swt_passenger · 29 Oct 2021

hkstudent said:
In the UK, it is in Highway Code that driver should give way to bus when trying to pull out.
However, as it ia not legal requirement, many drivers will just ignore that given that there will be no consequences.
Then, given that there's no use to put that on Highway Code, why doesn't government to codify the requirement toake that useful or remove that from Highway Code as it is not very useful?
Many countries like Australia and Singapore already made the same provision.

There is loads of the Highway Code that is guidance rather than law. It’s how it’s always been done and singling out this one aspect for “special treatment“ isn’t really necessary.

Darandio · 29 Oct 2021

I'm trying to find the right word really but having it in there sort of has a 'conditioning' effect in how you progress from learner to licensed driver. It's something i've always done in rural and town life but I imagine attitudes might be different in cities with buses pulling out left, right and centre!

I cannot see how there has been any harm caused by having it there. Why change for the sake of it?

GrimsbyPacer · 29 Oct 2021

It's the polite thing for a driver of a car with 5 seats, to allow a bus with 50 seats past. It may not be legal, but it is always worth reminding people of good attitude when on the stressful roads.

hkstudent · 29 Oct 2021

Darandio said:
I'm trying to find the right word really but having it in there sort of has a 'conditioning' effect in how you progress from learner to licensed driver. It's something i've always done in rural and town life but I imagine attitudes might be different in cities with buses pulling out left, right and centre!

I cannot see how there has been any harm caused by having it there. Why change for the sake of it?

Almost noone will do that in London, and likely that's part of the reason why the average speed of London Bus are that low.

87 027 · 29 Oct 2021

I live in suburban London, am a bus user myself and if driving and see a bus indicating ahead of me to pull out of a bus stop, I will always let it go in front.

If you are going to codify something in law there needs to be a means of enforcement and here you rub up against the more general national cultural question of how authoritarian you want to be. I for one would not welcome greater moves in this direction in the UK.

bramling · 29 Oct 2021

hkstudent said:
Almost noone will do that in London, and likely that's part of the reason why the average speed of London Bus are that low.

One good reason not to give way is this will likely result in getting a mouthful of pollution as the bus pulls away.

GusB · 29 Oct 2021

You'll get the odd car driver that doesn't care but I don't think it's that big an issue - from my own experience of both driving a car and being a bus passenger, there are more considerate people out there than you'd give credit for. In a city environment where traffic is moving fairly slowly anyway, it's absolutely no skin off my nose to drop back a bit to open up a gap for a bus to pull out, and the chances are that it will be pulling in at the next stop anyway.

If anything, I'd say it's less likely to happen in a more rural setting where the roads don't always permit overtaking and there's no guarantee that there will be anyone boarding or alighting at the next stop.

Harpers Tate · 30 Oct 2021

Like so many things that are actually mandatory (esp. motoring, but elsewhere too) the question is one of enforcement - which as far as (for example) driving on a footpath is concerned, is practically non-existent.

AM9 · 30 Oct 2021

In some locations where the traffic has made it difficult for buses to pull out, the local authority has provided footpath extensions, thereby preventing traffic from passing a bus standing at a stop. Of course some drivers then complain, but it is their (collective) behaviour that has made the layout necessary.

LSWR Cavalier · 30 Oct 2021

'Should' should be done away with. It should be replaced by must/must not so one knows what to do or not to do,and what others do/do not do.

Plus enforcement of course. And simplification of the rules at the same time, if possible.

Ianno87 · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
One good reason not to give way is this will likely result in getting a mouthful of pollution as the bus pulls away.

Not with an electric bus.

Besides, air quality in London is so poor from the number of people driving cars, one extra bus in front of you really makes no difference.

Geordie driver · 30 Oct 2021

There would be no point in making it a law as there would be zero enforcement or support.

The " must get in front of the bus" attitude is entrenched, I would say roughly one car in ten will let you out.

PeterC · 30 Oct 2021

Geordie driver said:
There would be no point in making it a law as there would be zero enforcement or support.

The " must get in front of the bus" attitude is entrenched, I would say roughly one car in ten will let you out.

My experience driving in France about 35 years ago was that the bus just pulled out regardless and it was the car driver's job to get out of the way. One good design feature of French urban buses in this situation was the extra indicator lights part way along the body. Every bus also seemed to have a notice on the back saying that it was a legal requirement to give way.

AndrewE · 30 Oct 2021

Geordie driver said:
There would be no point in making it a law as there would be zero enforcement or support.

The " must get in front of the bus" attitude is entrenched, I would say roughly one car in ten will let you out.

which is why I woud support changing the law to make giving way to a bus mandatory in these circumstances. Opposition to wearing seatbelts and addiction to smoking were "entrenched," and look at where we are now!
If someone damaged their car trying to pass a bus which was pulling out then I guess they would automatically be in the wrong, life would be easier for the bus driver and the car insurance would take the hit. Unfortunately that affects my premiums too!

bramling · 30 Oct 2021

Ianno87 said:
Not with an electric bus.

Besides, air quality in London is so poor from the number of people driving cars, one extra bus in front of you really makes no difference.

It really does. Same at my local station, I get sick of being treated to a mouthful of bus fumes when walking to or from the station. One can pretty much guarantee a bus will appear. To be honest I'd be quite happy simply to get rid of them, and perhaps relieve the taxpayer of some burden in the process.

jfollows · 30 Oct 2021

hkstudent said:
In the UK, it is in Highway Code that driver should give way to bus when trying to pull out.
However, as it ia not legal requirement, many drivers will just ignore that given that there will be no consequences.
Then, given that there's no use to put that on Highway Code, why doesn't government to codify the requirement toake that useful or remove that from Highway Code as it is not very useful?
Many countries like Australia and Singapore already made the same provision.

In my opinion, because common sense should prevail.

One of my pet hates is when I'm following a car but I have nobody behind me, and then the car in front of me stops to let someone out of a side road or to let a bus pull out. It's thoughtless and lacking situational awareness.

On the other hand, when I'm in a constant queue of traffic, I always allow a bus to pull out when it's indicating.

AM9 · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
It really does. Same at my local station, I get sick of being treated to a mouthful of bus fumes when walking to or from the station. One can pretty much guarantee a bus will appear. To be honest I'd be quite happy simply to get rid of them, and perhaps relieve the taxpayer of some burden in the process.

And how would the passengers that use them now get around?

bramling · 30 Oct 2021

AM9 said:
And how would the passengers that use them now get around?

Other, less polluting, modes of transport?

Mcr Warrior · 30 Oct 2021

jfollows said:
One of my pet hates is when I'm following a car but I have nobody behind me, and then the car in front of me stops to let someone out of a side road or to let a bus pull out. It's thoughtless and lacking situational awareness.

What's all that wrong with that? Are you maybe following too close behind the car that's in front of you?

AndrewE · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
Other, less polluting, modes of transport?

or more of the same mode, but using less- or zero-pollution vehicles.

bramling · 30 Oct 2021

Mcr Warrior said:
What's all that wrong with that? Are you maybe following too close behind the car that's in front of you?

Unnecessary wear and tear through having to slow down (brakes, potentially having to change gear down and then up again), and extra fuel use (and therefore pollution) regaining prevailing speed. Poor practice if, as the previous poster suggested, there's a perfectly good gap which the person could fit in to without all of this being necessary. Also potentially increasing the scope for a misunderstanding - better simply for everyone to follow the normal "rules" and conventions as far as possible.

Mcr Warrior · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
Unnecessary wear and tear through having to slow down (brakes, potentially having to change gear down and then up again), and extra fuel use (and therefore pollution) regaining prevailing speed. Poor practice if, as the previous poster suggested, there's a perfectly good gap which the person could fit in to without all of this being necessary. Also potentially increasing the scope for a misunderstanding - better simply for everyone to follow the normal "rules" and conventions as far as possible.

Interesting! Would you also fail to give way to a bus wanting to pull away from a bus stop, if you were in the vehicle approaching from behind? Irrespective of whether there were any vehicles behind you or not?

Busaholic · 30 Oct 2021

To directly answer the question:- (a) there is no evidence that making it a legal requirement would make more than a trivial difference;
(b) how precisely could it be framed to be watertight? e.g. if the bus driver is not signalling or the car driver is being followed so closely that to stop might cause an accident;
(c) even if it became law, would it be enforced, or only become another potential charge should an accident ensue?

In my area, a large swathe of roads have recently seen the speed limit fall from 30 to 20 mph. The Devon and Cornwall police have announced publically they have no plans to enforce it and there are no speed cameras, or plans for them.

AM9 · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
Other, less polluting, modes of transport?

Such as?

alexf380 · 30 Oct 2021

Mcr Warrior said:
Interesting! Would you also fail to give way to a bus wanting to pull away from a bus stop, if you were in the vehicle approaching from behind? Irrespective of whether there were any vehicles behind you or not?

I think that vehicles behind you changes the situation. If there are vehicles behind you then yes, you absolutely should give way to a bus wanting to pull out. If there aren't, then chances are the bus driver has already spotted the gap behind you and is preparing to fit in there so giving way isn't as necessary, although still a nice thing to do.

alex397 · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
It really does. Same at my local station, I get sick of being treated to a mouthful of bus fumes when walking to or from the station. One can pretty much guarantee a bus will appear. To be honest I'd be quite happy simply to get rid of them, and perhaps relieve the taxpayer of some burden in the process.

I know some rail enthusiasts don’t like buses much, but surely this is a bit extreme?
Diesel buses are a lot less polluting than they used to be. If you were walking the streets in the 1980s, it must have been very traumatic when a bus went past!

gg1 · 30 Oct 2021

bramling said:
Other, less polluting, modes of transport?

Obviously not cars then, so I presume you're referring to bikes or foot?

Or to put it another way - screw anyone who's mobility impaired, they'll just have to get used to being prisoners in their own home.

GusB · 30 Oct 2021

Could we remain on topic, please? We're not discussing the amount of pollution that buses do or do not produce here.

A0wen · 30 Oct 2021

Mcr Warrior said:
What's all that wrong with that? Are you maybe following too close behind the car that's in front of you?

Put simply, you shouldn't impede the flow of traffic - which is what this does. Stopping or slowing for no good reason or to let somebody out when there is a adequate gap behind you is unnecessary.

Why is giving way to buses not a legal requirement?

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