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Branding and marketing blunders or failures on the railway.

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Christmas

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I've been looking at pictures of DB Cargo locomotives on railhead treatment trains and realised that a significant number of engines are still branded as EWS.

In my opinion EWS was a very strong brand which should have been grown, but sadly the company was renamed DB Schenker which was a huge act of folly as it meant absolutely nothing in the UK. Twelve years after EWS was consigned to history, the brand is still active.

Freightliner has recently rebranded to the awful orange livery, discarding the strong green brand. GTR, a weak grey.

So, what are other members top branding and marketing disasters?
 
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6Gman

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I've been looking at pictures of DB Cargo locomotives on railhead treatment trains and realised that a significant number of engines are still branded as EWS.

In my opinion EWS was a very strong brand which should have been grown, but sadly the company was renamed DB Schenker which was a huge act of folly as it meant absolutely nothing in the UK. Twelve years after EWS was consigned to history, the brand is still active.

Freightliner has recently rebranded to the awful orange livery, discarding the strong green brand. GTR, a weak grey.

So, what are other members top branding and marketing disasters?
Since these are freight operators whose customers will presumably be concerned with their bottom line rather than the branding of the loco on the front do you have any evidence that these are "branding and marketing disasters"?
 

Grecian 1998

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It's hard to think of a worse person to front the 'This is the Age of the Train' adverts BR used to promote the HST than the one they chose, even if it had no impact at the time.

The use of the name One by NXEA was fairly inexplicable. How did no-one at any point in the branding exercise realise this might cause a smidgen of confusion for passengers when trains were being announced?
 

Gloster

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It's hard to think of a worse person to front the 'This is the Age of the Train' adverts BR used to promote the HST than the one they chose, even if it had no impact at the time.
Reportedly the person was chosen after BR’s researchers reported that he was the most trusted person in Britain. Sir Peter Parker asked them to look again at the conclusion, but, no, that was still the result. But then he did manage to fool an awful lot of others.
 

87 027

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Reportedly the person was chosen after BR’s researchers reported that he was the most trusted person in Britain. Sir Peter Parker asked them to look again at the conclusion, but, no, that was still the result. But then he did manage to fool an awful lot of others.
This was covered in a BBC documentary a few years ago - can't remember the title unfortunately - apparently BR wanted Terry Wogan instead but research did show that the other person was more popular so that's who they went with.

I also remember a BR poster with Gary Glitter (a 1970s glam rock star for our younger readers) advertising the Young Person's Railcard - that is also somewhat unfortunate given subsequent revelations...

 

XAM2175

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In my opinion EWS was a very strong brand which should have been grown ...
Amongst enthusiasts, perhaps. I'd wager that DB is by far the stronger brand amongst cargo customers.

Freightliner has recently rebranded to the awful orange livery, discarding the strong green brand.
Which unifies the brand with G&W's operations in the US and Australia.

May as well just re-title the thread "Branding I don't like very much" :rolleyes:
 

sk688

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Thameslink going thorough multiple rebrands between 2018/19 and spending a lot of money on what were minor changes at most
 

Dr Hoo

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Thameslink going thorough multiple rebrands between 2018/19 and spending a lot of money on what were minor changes at most
Can you elucidate?

The name "Thameslink" has been around since the 1980s and has long been well-recognised in London and the South East. Obviously the applicability of the brand name has varied as route extensions have changed, most conspicuously with the opening of the Canal Tunnels and extensions onto some former 'Great Northern' lines (as well as other bits like the North Kent).

A family member who lives near Maze Hill thinks that "Thameslink is great" as it now provides a direct link to St Pancras, for example.

How is this a "top branding or marketing disaster"?
 
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Bletchleyite

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LNR's initial branding was incredibly childish and amateur compared with the excellent Best Impressions package London Midland had. It does seem to have improved over time, though.

"One" was about one of the worst, because was it the 12:21 service to London Liverpool St, or was it the 12:20 "One" service to London Liverpool St?

Mind you, First(f) on the antimacassars in Standard Class was almost as bad.
 

superalbs

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Can you elucidate?

The name "Thameslink" has been around since the 1980s and has long been well-recognised in London and the South East. Obvious the applicability of the brand name has varied as route extensions have changed, most obviously with the opening of the Canal Tunnels and extensions onto some former 'Great Northern' lines (as well as other bits like the North Kent).

A family member who lives near Maze Hill thinks that "Thameslink is great" as it now provides a direct link to St Pancras, for example.

How is this a "top branding or marketing disaster"?
Presumably this is about how the logo changed a few times?
 

whoosh

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Freightliner has recently rebranded to the awful orange livery, discarding the strong green brand.

I saw a 66 the other day repainted into the new orange and yellow. I actually thought was Colas Rail, and was surprised to find out it was Freightliner. I thought at the time, "What a mistake! Let's be revolutionary and look like one of our competitors instead of evolving the brand - because that's such a good idea!"


Can you elucidate?

How is this a "top branding or marketing disaster"?

Thameslink.

The name is good, but I think what is being conveyed is that what at first looked like joined up design in terms of logo, was then rather needlessly in the eyes of some, suddenly discarded for a design which wasn't joined up, cost a lot to change, and was done for no apparent reason.

The original GTR design is here:

The later version:

thameslink-vector-logo-small.png

Even more nonsensical is that the Great Northern logo has been kept the same, so it's not even as if both were redesigned to be in tune (or not) with each other.
When you bear in mind that Thameslink trains run into Kings Cross on Sundays and that tickets are marked Thameslink/Great Northern, and that GN Drivers work some Thameslink trains, you'd think that giving them both a common identity would be desirable - like was done to start with.

Like it was a joined up network.

But then a somewhat insipid new logo for Thameslink came along with no explanation.
That website above talks about the design of the original GTR design, but there is no announcement, promotion, or anyone in design circles talking about the newer version.

Hit or miss?
I'd call it a miss.
 

superalbs

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I saw a 66 the other day repainted into the new orange and yellow. I actually thought was Colas Rail, and was surprised to find out it was Freightliner. I thought at the time, "What a mistake! Let's be revolutionary and look like one of our competitors instead of evolving the brand - because that's such a good idea!"




Thameslink.

The name is good, but I think what is being conveyed is that what at first looked like joined up design in terms of logo, was then rather needlessly in the eyes of some, suddenly discarded for a design which wasn't joined up, cost a lot to change, and was done for no apparent reason.

The original GTR design is here:

The later version:

View attachment 105483

Even more nonsensical is that the Great Northern logo has been kept the same, so it's not even as if both were redesigned to be in tune (or not) with each other.
When you bear in mind that Thameslink trains run into Kings Cross on Sundays and that tickets are marked Thameslink/Great Northern, and that GN Drivers work some Thameslink trains, you'd think that giving them both a common identity would be desirable - like was done to start with.

Like it was a joined up network.

But then a somewhat insipid new logo for Thameslink came along with no explanation.
That website above talks about the design of the original GTR design, but there is no announcement, promotion, or anyone in design circles talking about the newer version.

Hit or miss?
I'd call it a miss.
You've also now got the awful situation with the 'Great Northern ...operated by Gatwick Express' nonsense on the side of some units.
 

whoosh

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You've also now got the awful situation with the 'Great Northern ...operated by Gatwick Express' nonsense on the side of some units.

'On loan from...' or 'provided by...' would be better. 'Operated by' just isn't true.

You see, they've gone to the trouble of sticking on vinyls saying that, but sticking light blue vinyls over the dark green doors on their original 387s would've gone a fair way to giving a family appearance. But they haven't done that!
They could've done the same to the red Gatwick ones as well - light blue doors. People would've 'got it'.
But let's stick untrue nonsense on instead!
 

61653 HTAFC

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Where to start (with the obvious caveat that this is opinion)?

Avanti choosing a meaningless brand after years of the industry slowly switching over to geographical operator names. (Lumo get a pass due being OA, as do Grand Central, who don't actually serve anywhere in the centre of the country).

One, and also First, for obvious reasons.

Virgin. Sure, it's a "strong brand" (whatever the chuff that means!) but it's always been a stupid name for any business. I get the impression that Branson sniggers like Finbarr Saunders every time anyone says his company name. To me it's childish and puerile. Get in the sea!

Northern Spirit was a pretty rubbish name too... they had nice liveries though!
 

Pit_buzzer

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I really hoped next would enter the rail business, the announcements would have been amazing, next train, first train, one train....
 

OuterDistant

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High Speed 2.

Mention it to anyone without an interest in railways and they'll start howling about spending untold billions so a few business people can get to Birmingham a few minutes faster.
 

Ianno87

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Like it was a joined up network.

But then a somewhat insipid new logo for Thameslink came along with no explanation.

There was a very waffley, bizarrely worded press release that came with it at the time.



That website above talks about the design of the original GTR design, but there is no announcement, promotion, or anyone in design circles talking about the newer version.

Hit or miss?
I'd call it a miss.

To most passengers, the / logo suits the 700s very well, if you don't over-think it.


High Speed 2.

Mention it to anyone without an interest in railways and they'll start howling about spending untold billions so a few business people can get to Birmingham a few minutes faster.

I would say re-naming CTRL to High Speed 1 just before opening was inspired, but HS2 should only have become HS2 once it was about to come into operation.
 

Tracked

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I remember the old British Rail slogan "We're Getting There" being mocked in the 80's (cue "We're getting there late" jokes), then after some marketing consultation being brought back but amended to "We're There" in the early 90's (not for long ... )
 

AzureOtsu

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Can you elucidate?

The name "Thameslink" has been around since the 1980s and has long been well-recognised in London and the South East. Obvious the applicability of the brand name has varied as route extensions have changed, most obviously with the opening of the Canal Tunnels and extensions onto some former 'Great Northern' lines (as well as other bits like the North Kent).

A family member who lives near Maze Hill thinks that "Thameslink is great" as it now provides a direct link to St Pancras, for example.

How is this a "top branding or marketing disaster"?
I think they were referring to thameslink changing its logo only a short time after the original was introduced
 

kermit

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Would "Nothing Sucks Like An Electrolux" count if it was ever on a poster on railway premises? Sorry Mods, I do appreciate your work and am probably testing your patience!
 

Towers

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From the early privatisation days, Connex introducing their ridiculous 'circus' uniform was a bit of a disaster. Whilst it wasn't "branding" as such, it certainly didn't help their image!
 

xotGD

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Cross country can't be branded very well when so many people still think it is Virgin Cross Country running Virgin Voyagers.
 

seagull

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This thread wouldn't be complete without mentioning Virgin Cross Country's Operation Princess, the marketing and timetabling exercise that tripped over its dress and fell flat on its face, and even the kiss of a frog couldn't bring back to life.

I still have some limited edition mugs that were made at that time, somewhere.
 

Dr Hoo

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This thread wouldn't be complete without mentioning Virgin Cross Country's Operation Princess, the marketing and timetabling exercise that tripped over its dress and fell flat on its face, and even the kiss of a frog couldn't bring back to life.

I still have some limited edition mugs that were made at that time, somewhere.
Was ‘Operation Princess’ ever used in a public-facing branding or marketing sense (as distinct from internal industry project descriptions and staff communications)?

Even in the major ‘launch’ section of Modern Railways, in October 2002 (fronted up by Chris Green) the term is surprisingly little used and samples of branding unsurprisingly all use the ‘Virgin Trains’ moniker.
 

seagull

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A good point: it probably was only marketed as that to staff and the industry, as after all, most public wouldn't have been aware of the previous "Cinderella" nickname of Cross Country. Nevertheless, a marketing failure it still was, when those same staff who'd been promised a wonderful revolution ended up being 2-3 hours late home almost every day for the next two-three months, and with ears ringing from the torrents of abuse from quite rightly annoyed passengers.
 

adc82140

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Not quite a marketing fail, but a PR fail:

Early privatisation SWT put posters up about fare evasion titled "no excuses". At this time, the service was rather poor, and full of excuses for late running. Those posters didn't last long.
 
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