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Stations rebranded to Great British Railways design / Rail Alphabet 2

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Goldfish62

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Proof if you needed it that it's the TOCs interpreting the design manual. It won't need replacing, a strip of black vinyl over the green would suffice.
The design manual obviously isn't written very well if it can be so open to interpretation.
 

thomalex

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25 Aug 2021
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There's nothing to say that GWR won't survive with suitable GBR branding applied.

This is the big unknown and I'm quite surprised we haven't had more clarity on it given we're going to be a year away from launch soon. From the Shapps Williams plan however I would lean towards operator branding no longer continuing.


From page 33:
"The rail network should feel like a network, a coherent, consistent, clearly-branded operation that gives passengers confidence
in using it. Most successful consumer businesses, including retailers and airlines, aim to create similar levels of consistency and brand identity.
Great British Railways will use updated versions of the classic ‘double arrow’ logo as well as the Rail Alphabet typeface, used

in this document. Even after 25 years of privatisation, the logo remains the most widely-used and best-recognised symbol of the railways. It is the standard marker on road signs. It appears on most tickets, online, and at the vast majority of stations. It will stay in those places and increasingly appear on trains, uniforms and publicity material too as and when these are upgraded or replaced as a single, unifying brand for the railways. Keeping it also avoids spending money on yet another new railway logo.

People are understandably sceptical about the frequent rebranding of trains and stations carried out under the privatised system, so the branding will be introduced alongside other improvements. Variants to the national brand will be developed to reflect the English regions, Scotland and Wales, while emphasising that the railway is one network serving the whole of Great Britain"



And page 54:
"TfL Overground services and many railways across Europe, including local and regional services in Germany and Sweden, use a concession model to contract with private partners to operate trains. These contracts have been more successful than franchising in enabling operators to be held to account for running trains on time, delivering passenger satisfaction and controlling costs.

Our new system of Passenger Service Contracts will build on this approach. Great British Railways will specify the timetables, branding, most fares and other aspects of the service and agree a fee with the competitively-procured passenger service operator to provide the service to this specification."
 

XAM2175

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The design manual obviously isn't written very well if it can be so open to interpretation.
Design manuals often need amending once they hit the real world.

The GWR efforts are nothing like the Design Manual envisages. I'd read @Non Multi's comment as saying that it proves the individual TOCs are behind the signage changes we've already seen, rather than a central office working from the manual.
 

jonnyfan

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Manchester
This GWR effort at Okehampton looks more just for promotional purposes of launching the reopened line and new logo for the line.

Also, I noticed today some RA2 signage has started to pop up at Stockport. No pictures as I was working through.
 

Andyh82

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The GWR examples look much more permanent. The Northern ones still to me look like something that they were legally obliged to install a week before the end of a franchise.
 

tpjm

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Northern station “rebrands” are nothing more than a replacement of signage. To be absolutely clear, there is no “central office” telling TOCs what to do.

In my opinion, the GWR approach is nice apart from the green double arrows. Not only is this against the wayfinding document, it also contravenes the general brand guidance for the use of double arrows.
 

Non Multi

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The GWR efforts are nothing like the Design Manual envisages. I'd read @Non Multi's comment as saying that it proves the individual TOCs are behind the signage changes we've already seen, rather than a central office working from the manual.
Yes, that's correct.
 

lancededcena

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Colchester, Essex
Soham station which is being built hasn't got the GBR treatment and is still using GA signage and font when I past there this week. I wonder if this is a voluntary design or was it simply the case of ordering signs before being made mandatory.
 

physics34

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I think weve all jumped the gun on this a bit. The signs at northern stations and Coventry and Euston could easily just be interim signs.

No official announcement about the signs has been made apart from in GBR leaflet published earlier in the year.

Basically, lets be patient
 

BrianW

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You'll never convince me to be a fan of yellow text on a grey background. :)
Its probably a good idea for some field tests in the real world though to iron out any problems with the designs.
Looks much better with a bit of weight to it.

No one has said it will need redoing. No one knows what GBR will do with local branding.

EMR are still repainting and rebranding stations at a pace now. It was always meant to be the same brand regardless of who won the franchise.
I think weve all jumped the gun on this a bit. The signs at northern stations and Coventry and Euston could easily just be interim signs.

No official announcement about the signs has been made apart from in GBR leaflet published earlier in the year.

Basically, lets be patient
My understanding was that it was already decided. There will surely be, if there's not already, a Design Manual that will set out EVERYTHING.
Whether you or I or anyone likes it or not is surely irrelevant- does it work?
Yellow on grey- whatever shade- is never going to be good. The Macular Society offers good advice regarding contrast etc- surely they will have been consulted.
And regarding the 'mock up' blue and grey with red large double-arrow logo, will there not be need to 'highlight' doors as at present and yellow stripe returning for 1st Class?
 

birchesgreen

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Yes i know design manuals set everything out, but in the real world designs get tweaked when they hit the streets. This is something i have a lot of experience with (in non-railway circles).
 

Goldfish62

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And regarding the 'mock up' blue and grey with red large double-arrow logo, will there not be need to 'highlight' doors as at present and yellow stripe returning for 1st Class?
That wasn't a serious mock-up. It was just somebody having a bit of fun by showing what a 55-year old heritage livery would look like on a Pendolino.
 

irish_rail

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From what I can see on the GWR network, no attempt at using the double arrow anywhere sadly. It seems down here we will need to keep the tacky old fashioned branding and miss out on the excellent application of double arrows occurring throughout the rest of the country .....
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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From what I can see on the GWR network, no attempt at using the double arrow anywhere sadly. It seems down here we will need to keep the tacky old fashioned branding and miss out on the excellent application of double arrows occurring throughout the rest of the country .....
…which is also, tacky old fashioned branding! :D
 

Chriso

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7 Dec 2006
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Holmes chapel, Goostrey, Alderley Edge and Handforth all have new rail alphabet 2 signage
 

HarryL

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Leeds
I think weve all jumped the gun on this a bit. The signs at northern stations and Coventry and Euston could easily just be interim signs.

No official announcement about the signs has been made apart from in GBR leaflet published earlier in the year.

Basically, lets be patient
The signage guidelines are out and are official, albeit through Network Rail at the moment as it is a project they initiated and GBR will simply inherit. The only proper applications of the signage so far have been in Coventry and Euston. This will be the standard going forward and GBR won't be changing it, though they will eventually have to go through and redo Northerns attempts and this single GWR attempt as neither match the guidelines.
 

Goldfish62

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New signage at Manchester Victoria.
 

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TT-ONR-NRN

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New signage at Manchester Victoria.
That’s very clearly not RA2 - Northern by Arriva introduced Arial signage to replace some Northern Serco Abellio signs at some stations, as well as at stations that opened during their franchise.
 

Trackman

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New signage at Manchester Victoria.
Has the other entrance to the Arena been closed off now?
Not sure about the other arrows too - guess it depends where it was taken.
-
I've not seen RA2 yet, I can't wait to see it or not see it when I take my glasses off.
 

Non Multi

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11 Dec 2017
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I think that all looks rather spiffing myself!
The new metal posts make it more presentable too. Slapping a new sticker on a damaged sign with fading paint on the posts doesn't make the same good impression.
 

Dave91131

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13 Jun 2018
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I'm currently on an LNER service which has just called at Retford, travelling north.

On the northbound platform some of the station name signs have had the old letter stickers removed, a half hearted effort has been made at removing the residue etc where they were stuck, and the new font stickers have then been stuck on.

Are the finances really so tight that a few new signs couldn't have been sourced? I'd think a new sign would have been quicker to put up too!
 

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