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Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

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kristiang85

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Here's an article by Nick Triggle on the BBC (one of the more optimistic journalists for covid), highlighting how the UK is actually well placed compared to the rest of Europe, also suggesting the UK has already had the wave Europe is seeing now:


It's interesting to see the Twitter responses to that article - the blue heart brigade are giving him grief for giving such positive views. It's like they really don't want this to end.
 
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nlogax

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It's interesting to see the Twitter responses to that article - the blue heart brigade are giving him grief for giving such positive views. It's like they really don't want this to end.

Just looked at his Twitter thread's responses and now wish I hadn't. I didn't want to start the morning off feeling quite this grumpy.
 

duncanp

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It's interesting to see the Twitter responses to that article - the blue heart brigade are giving him grief for giving such positive views. It's like they really don't want this to end.

And Locktivist Sky News featured an interview with a GP this morning with Kay Burley asking the question "..Should we wear masks outdoors?.."

Of course the GP answered that we should be wearing masks outdoors.

But given that masks outdoors have never been mandated in England throughout the pandemic, and it has been shown that there is very little transmission of the virus outdoors, I fail to see what mandatory mask wearing outdoors would actually achieve, apart from being a communal comfort blanket which makes people "..feel safe..".
 

Yew

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And Locktivist Sky News featured an interview with a GP this morning with Kay Burley asking the question "..Should we wear masks outdoors?.."

Of course the GP answered that we should be wearing masks outdoors.

But given that masks outdoors have never been mandated in England throughout the pandemic, and it has been shown that there is very little transmission of the virus outdoors, I fail to see what mandatory mask wearing outdoors would actually achieve, apart from being a communal comfort blanket which makes people "..feel safe..".
Why would a GP know anything about epidemiology in the first place? Should we start asking mechanics in how to relieve road congestion?
 

brad465

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It's interesting to see the Twitter responses to that article - the blue heart brigade are giving him grief for giving such positive views. It's like they really don't want this to end.
Just looked at his Twitter thread's responses and now wish I hadn't. I didn't want to start the morning off feeling quite this grumpy.
The BBC comments under the article directly are better, not perfect, but includes a good few about media hysteria in relation to how lockdowns come about.
 

kristiang85

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Indeed, and now they're looking at using restrictions to push it into the flu season.

Although, looking at the UK's day, we might not have a flu season again (assuming this is being reported correctly). It's usually around week 46 it starts ramping up, but it still looks like 2020 numbers at the moment.
 

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adc82140

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Although, looking at the UK's day, we might not have a flu season again (assuming this is being reported correctly). It's usually around week 46 it starts ramping up, but it still looks like 2020 numbers at the moment.
My knowledge of virology is very limited, but is it possible that the SarsCoV2 coronavirus is "out competing" the one that causes flu?
 

kristiang85

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My knowledge of virology is very limited, but is it possible that the SarsCoV2 coronavirus is "out competing" the one that causes flu?

Yes, that is the most likely scenario (from what I understand) - although it does somewhat quash the doom-monger predictions of a COVID/influenza double pronged attack on the NHS (and other countries' health service).

Alternatively, it could be that all the resources are being taken up by COVID, so flu simply isn't being reported but it is there. However, that does show how the obsession with overtesting for COVID is not really compatible a functioning health system.

Finally, there is a tiny chance that COVID testing picks up flu as positive for COVID. I'm not sure how likely this is, but it does call the whole thing into question if that's the case. But I've seen no concrete theory of this, more pure speculation.
 

scarby

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My knowledge of virology is very limited, but is it possible that the SarsCoV2 coronavirus is "out competing" the one that causes flu?
When Sweden introduced social distancing recommendations and several other recommendations and restrictions in March 2020 (masks was not one of them and restaurants, bars and shops did not shut) the winter 'flu figures basically fell off a cliff. So if a lot of people are still behaving very cautiously (e.g. keeping more distance than they used to and meeting less people, particularly in crowded environments) in the UK, and in other countries there are still stricter measures, perhaps that is enough to stop 'flu becoming widespread?
 

Bantamzen

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When Sweden introduced social distancing recommendations and several other recommendations and restrictions in March 2020 (masks was not one of them and restaurants, bars and shops did not shut) the winter 'flu figures basically fell off a cliff. So if a lot of people are still behaving very cautiously (e.g. keeping more distance than they used to and meeting less people, particularly in crowded environments) in the UK, and in other countries there are still stricter measures, perhaps that is enough to stop 'flu becoming widespread?
It could potentially, but conversely it could open the path up for a more infectious strain in the future.
 

greyman42

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That's ominous.

Exactly how is Jens Spahn going to ensure you are either vaccinated, recovered or.... dead.

Have these people no sense of the history of their own country?

Sinister nasty individuals.
What has their past history got to do with it? Their past history has no bearing on decisions made by the present day government.
 

MattA7

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What is the risk of other countries making the vaccine compulsory now that Austria has done so? And where do people who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons stand?
 

brad465

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It could potentially, but conversely it could open the path up for a more infectious strain in the future.
Arguably that's how covid's Delta variant came about; the estimated R0 for it is 5-8, which does scream "we can get this under control with lockdowns, social distancing and whatnot."
 
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My knowledge of virology is very limited, but is it possible that the SarsCoV2 coronavirus is "out competing" the one that causes flu?

The Reproductive Number (R0) of the Delta variant is approximately 5 while that of seasonal Influenza is much lower at about 1.2-1.3.
As the transmission of both viruses is similar any measures to reduce the spread of Covid will also reduce the spread of Flu - with flu being less transmissible a measure that merely reduces the spread of Covid can almost stop the spread of flu completely.
Even with the lifting of restrictions (more so in England than the rest of the UK) there is still mask wearing, hand sanitizing, distancing in some places and a general reduction in mixing as there is still a lot of WFH - this might be enough to prevent or at least minimize the annual flu season. I suspect those most vurnerable to Covid or Flu are also those most likely to be sticking to these mitigations for their own safety and peace of mind
 

brad465

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There's no proper article, this is just in the BBC live feed, but the WHO are claiming Europe will reach 2.2m covid deaths by March, where there's around 1.5m so far and 700k predicted over winter:


Europe and parts of Asia could reach 2.2 million Covid deaths by March next year, the World Health Organization has warned.

It says another 700,000 more people could die from the disease by March 2022, based on current trends.

It’s been 623 days since the health body declared Covid a pandemic in March 2020, and the region has already recorded 1.5 million deaths.

Covid is currently the top cause of death in Europe, it says.

It also warned that 49 countries in the region will reach "high or extreme stress" in intensive care units by March.

This though is another example of a large number produced with no context. We also need to see total numbers of deaths that would normally be expected from all causes over the same period, and estimated/historical deaths from other common causes of death. But that of course wouldn't fit the narrative and in the journalism is lazy and not a good money maker.

Also worth mentioning that by March 2 years will have passed, which means really the death toll needs breaking down into a per year measure at least.
 

WestRiding

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I see Poland are now starting to think about introducing more restrictions. I think the whole of Europe will be unreachable soon over winter.
 

Class 33

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I see Poland are now starting to think about introducing more restrictions. I think the whole of Europe will be unreachable soon over winter.

It's a nuisance. I haven't been able to go abroad for a short break/holiday abroad for nearly 2 years because of all this nonsense and malarky dragging on for far too long.
 

Butts

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I see Poland are now starting to think about introducing more restrictions. I think the whole of Europe will be unreachable soon over winter.

Are you including Albania and Turkey as being unreachable ?

I am due to travel to both over the next three weeks !!
 

zero

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It's a nuisance. I haven't been able to go abroad for a short break/holiday abroad for nearly 2 years because of all this nonsense and malarky dragging on for far too long.

This seems to be a common complaint on other forums too, but I don't understand why so many people were reluctant to travel and now they all have plans for December which are being ruined.

Extensive travel in Europe was possible from July-September 2020 and in the early half of December 2020, and as the UK was still effectively in the EU there weren't any problems with being allowed entry. There were no testing or vaccine requirements and only a vague instruction to self-isolate at home if you had been in certain areas, which was not particularly enforced.

I travelled extensively in those 3 months to continental Europe and did not need to self-isolate. This period was also during school holidays so that isn't an excuse.

Outbound holidays were illegal from the UK from January to May 2021 but that didn't stop people, according to my acquaintances who work for airlines/airports. You couldn't go to EU countries but many others were available (Dubai, Maldives, Turkey were common).

From May to September 2021 you needed a test to board transport to the UK which I can understand was off-putting, however for trips under 3 days you could do the test in the UK before leaving. This also removed the risk of testing positive while abroad. By August most of Europe was allowing vaccinated people to enter without onerous requirements. Case numbers in many countries were very low meaning that there were very few restrictions.

Once the preflight test was no longer needed for the UK you only needed a PCR test after returning which could be obtained for under £30, and more recently the requirement was changed to LFTs which can be obtained for £1 (limited situations) or £10-£20. For those with schoolchildren October half-term was possible, from England at least, and prices were not particularly inflated compared to before covid.
 

kristiang85

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Are you including Albania and Turkey as being unreachable ?

I am due to travel to both over the next three weeks !!I

If you do get to Turkey, their currency has just had a massive drop, so it should be cheap.

I haven't seen anything about them reimposing restrictions though. They need tourists more than ever at the moment.
 

WestRiding

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This seems to be a common complaint on other forums too, but I don't understand why so many people were reluctant to travel and now they all have plans for December which are being ruined.

Extensive travel in Europe was possible from July-September 2020 and in the early half of December 2020, and as the UK was still effectively in the EU there weren't any problems with being allowed entry. There were no testing or vaccine requirements and only a vague instruction to self-isolate at home if you had been in certain areas, which was not particularly enforced.

I travelled extensively in those 3 months to continental Europe and did not need to self-isolate. This period was also during school holidays so that isn't an excuse.

Outbound holidays were illegal from the UK from January to May 2021 but that didn't stop people, according to my acquaintances who work for airlines/airports. You couldn't go to EU countries but many others were available (Dubai, Maldives, Turkey were common).

From May to September 2021 you needed a test to board transport to the UK which I can understand was off-putting, however for trips under 3 days you could do the test in the UK before leaving. This also removed the risk of testing positive while abroad. By August most of Europe was allowing vaccinated people to enter without onerous requirements. Case numbers in many countries were very low meaning that there were very few restrictions.

Once the preflight test was no longer needed for the UK you only needed a PCR test after returning which could be obtained for under £30, and more recently the requirement was changed to LFTs which can be obtained for £1 (limited situations) or £10-£20. For those with schoolchildren October half-term was possible, from England at least, and prices were not particularly inflated compared to before covid.
To answer your first paragraph. Because personally I had 4 holidays that could not take place through 2020/21, and spent months trying to get money back etc. Add to that all the hassle of tests etc. Its only because the test situation and doing away with bans on countries changed, that many booked for December onwards.
 

Watershed

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This seems to be a common complaint on other forums too, but I don't understand why so many people were reluctant to travel and now they all have plans for December which are being ruined.

Extensive travel in Europe was possible from July-September 2020 and in the early half of December 2020, and as the UK was still effectively in the EU there weren't any problems with being allowed entry. There were no testing or vaccine requirements and only a vague instruction to self-isolate at home if you had been in certain areas, which was not particularly enforced.

I travelled extensively in those 3 months to continental Europe and did not need to self-isolate. This period was also during school holidays so that isn't an excuse.

Outbound holidays were illegal from the UK from January to May 2021 but that didn't stop people, according to my acquaintances who work for airlines/airports. You couldn't go to EU countries but many others were available (Dubai, Maldives, Turkey were common).

From May to September 2021 you needed a test to board transport to the UK which I can understand was off-putting, however for trips under 3 days you could do the test in the UK before leaving. This also removed the risk of testing positive while abroad. By August most of Europe was allowing vaccinated people to enter without onerous requirements. Case numbers in many countries were very low meaning that there were very few restrictions.

Once the preflight test was no longer needed for the UK you only needed a PCR test after returning which could be obtained for under £30, and more recently the requirement was changed to LFTs which can be obtained for £1 (limited situations) or £10-£20. For those with schoolchildren October half-term was possible, from England at least, and prices were not particularly inflated compared to before covid.
I can certainly imagine that a minority of people will have had bad luck with being unable to go anywhere (or anywhere they're interested in going) during the dates they could get off.

But as you say, it would be wrong to suggest that international travel has not been possible at all for the last 2 years, it has just been subject to varying degrees of difficulty at different stages.
 

thaitransit

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I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.
 

Bantamzen

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I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.
So not "normal" then? You are still pretty much isolated from the rest of the world, if you do go abroad you have to quarantine, plus you are living under the threat that is any cases re-emerge you could be locked down in a moment. Hardly normal at all.
 

MikeWM

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So not "normal" then? You are still pretty much isolated from the rest of the world, if you do go abroad you have to quarantine, plus you are living under the threat that is any cases re-emerge you could be locked down in a moment. Hardly normal at all.

And (according to the internet, at least) vaccine passports for pretty much everything will be starting a few weeks time. Which is a rather odd route to take if everything is currently normal - why introduce them now?
 

roversfan2001

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I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.
You can't say there are no restrictions then proceed to name some fairly hefty restrictions...
 

bramling

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I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.

Having a proverbial wall round the borders and a constant cloud of restrictions should a case slip in (as, at some point, is inevitable) is hardly normal life.

As a lot of other places have found out, a lot of these measures are merely storing up problems for the future, which may well come to bite at the time when they're least wanted.
 
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Eyersey468

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I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.
Unless the authorities in Queensland want to be isolated from the rest of the world forever more at some point Covid will get in.
 

adc82140

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Unless the authorities in Queensland want to be isolated from the rest of the world forever more at some point Covid will get in.
The Aussie borders are opening soon. There will be infections. The authorities there are going to have to get used to that, rather than put everyone under house arrest every time someone gets this particular virus they've singled out from all the rest of the seasonal respiratory viruses.
 

NorthKent1989

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I really don't get this living with covid thing! Comming from Covid free Queensland where its been zero cases for weeks. Thus no restrictions locally no masks and everything open normally has it has been for much of the pandemic. The only restriction we have is very strict border control with requirements to be fully vaccinated and return a negative PCR before travel. Plus 14 days home quranteen or 14 days hotel Quranteen for non residents.
Strict border controls doesn’t equate to living with Covid
 
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