ECML Disruption 04/06/2022

Peregrine 4903 · 4 Jun 2022

There seems to be huge disruption on the ECML South today due to a trespass incident around Potters Bar.

I'm just wondering, considering the disruption seems to have gone on for about 3 hours now, I'm confused as to how there are still tresspassers on the line? Especially considering a few trains got through for a brief period, but now its back to all lines blocked again.

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apinnard · 4 Jun 2022

Peregrine 4903 said:
There seems to be huge disruption on the ECML South today due to a trespass incident around Potters Bar.

I'm just wondering, considering the disruption seems to have gone on for about 3 hours now, I'm confused as to how there are still tresspassers on the line? Especially considering a few trains got through for a brief period, but now its back to all lines blocked again.

The distressed person on the line was removed for a while and then went back linside an hour or so later. Trains have been held twice as a result.

GTR fail · 4 Jun 2022

I am confused as to how it takes over an hour to apprehend a trespasser, and then for them to somehow return to the tracks later. Surely the procedure for the trespassing on the railway needs to be looked at, and a hefty punishment should be issued to the trespasser for the disruption caused.

MP393 · 4 Jun 2022

GTR fail said:
I am confused as to how it takes over an hour to apprehend a trespasser, and then for them to somehow return to the tracks later. Surely the procedure for the trespassing on the railway needs to be looked at, and a hefty punishment should be issued to the trespasser for the disruption caused.

Depends where they are, and what danger they pose to the person (s) that are taking them into safety. Not sure on this specific incident but if they were say on top of a bridge, or anywhere near OHL structure, then it’s not as simple as just grabbing them and taking them away

GTR fail · 4 Jun 2022

MP393 said:
Depends where they are, and what danger they pose to the person (s) that are taking them into safety. Not sure on this specific incident but if they were say on top of a bridge, or anywhere near OHL structure, then it’s not as simple as just grabbing them and taking them away

Agree, but as to how they got onto the railway again after being apprehended (unless these are false reports) indicates that the procedure is wrong. They should surely have been taken to hospital, the police station or some place to improve their mental health, not just let free.

Mag_seven · 4 Jun 2022

GTR fail said:
Agree, but as to how they got onto the railway again after being apprehended (unless these are false reports) indicates that the procedure is wrong. They should surely have been taken to hospital, the police station or some place to improve their mental health, not just let free.

Yes it does appear to be a bit of an "own goal" letting them "go free" again. That said there would be no guarantee that they would not go on the line again later on!

It cant be much fun being on 1E10 (1000 Edinburgh - London Kings Cross ) at the moment as it appears to be at a red signal inside Welwyn North Tunnel!

Saint66 · 4 Jun 2022

The Police helicopter was called in to assist in the search too.

Causing a lot of issues with thousands also travelling to see Liam Gallagher at Knebworth.

apinnard · 4 Jun 2022

Mag_seven said:
Yes it does appear to be a bit of an "own goal" letting them "go free" again. That said there would be no guarantee that they would not go on the line again later on!

It cant be much fun being on 1E10 (1000 Edinburgh - London Kings Cross ) at the moment as it appears to be at a red signal inside Welwyn North Tunnel!

Indeed. I am only going what the train manager on 1D17 to Leeds told us about the same person being back on the tracks.

GB · 4 Jun 2022

The distressed person was never in custody and never removed. She went missing and after searching she couldn’t be found, line was reopened briefly but she then made another appearance hence the 2nd block of the line.

apinnard · 4 Jun 2022

Line block lifted. Just made it through Potters Bar.

Mag_seven · 4 Jun 2022

GB said:
The distressed person was never in custody and never removed. She went missing and after searching she couldn’t be found, line was reopened briefly but she then made another appearance hence the 2nd block of the line.

Ah that makes sense - its easy to see how misleading statements can be made by guards etc when the full facts are not known.

D1537 · 4 Jun 2022

Looks like 1E12 and 1A30 had the luckiest escape, arriving at Stevenage just in time - along with a couple of others - to be sent round the Hertford loop and might even make it to KGX within delay repay territory. Meanwhile 1E13 was sent correct road as the line had reopened and is now stuck behind a queue of trains.

Edit: 1E12 landed 28 late and 1A30 was 22 late.

skyhigh · 4 Jun 2022

GB said:
The distressed person was never in custody and never removed. She went missing and after searching she couldn’t be found, line was reopened briefly but she then made another appearance hence the 2nd block of the line.

Spot on

GTR fail said:
Surely the procedure for the trespassing on the railway needs to be looked at, and a hefty punishment should be issued to the trespasser for the disruption caused.

If the disruption was caused by a vulnerable person with mental health issues, is it a good idea to issue them a 'hefty punishment'...?

DJCC · 4 Jun 2022

The previous evening (Fri 3rd) there was also a trespasser on the track (near Huntington) - my Grand Central train was delayed by an hour and a half as a result and got into Kings Cross at 2237 instead of 2107. Not sure if it was the same person or not but a tough 24 hours for the ECML!

XIX7007177 · 4 Jun 2022

Sadly mental health services are appalling so this sort of issue will only get worse.

class397tpe · 4 Jun 2022

Real-time trains seem to think LNER ran 3 801s coupled together in this disruption (to make a 15 car train) - 801104 + 801108 + 801112. I'm guessing this is likely a mistake?

Realtime Trains | 1D15 1303 London Kings Cross to Leeds | 04/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1D15 1303 departure from London Kings Cross to Leeds on 04/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

dakta · 4 Jun 2022

skyhigh said:
Spot on

If the disruption was caused by a vulnerable person with mental health issues, is it a good idea to issue them a 'hefty punishment'...?

In a word no.

subk2010 · 4 Jun 2022

class397tpe said:
Real-time trains seem to think LNER ran 3 801s coupled together in this disruption (to make a 15 car train) - 801104 + 801108 + 801112. I'm guessing this is likely a mistake?

Realtime Trains | 1D15 1303 London Kings Cross to Leeds | 04/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1D15 1303 departure from London Kings Cross to Leeds on 04/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is this the first time that 3 Class 801-1 sets are coupled together to operate a passenger service?

skyhigh · 4 Jun 2022

subk2010 said:
Is this the first time that 3 Class 801-1 sets are coupled together to operate a passenger service?

No, it was 2 sets.

class397tpe said:
Real-time trains seem to think LNER ran 3 801s coupled together in this disruption (to make a 15 car train) - 801104 + 801108 + 801112. I'm guessing this is likely a mistake?

Realtime Trains | 1D15 1303 London Kings Cross to Leeds | 04/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1D15 1303 departure from London Kings Cross to Leeds on 04/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes. It was only 104+108.

Tramfan · 4 Jun 2022

class397tpe said:
Real-time trains seem to think LNER ran 3 801s coupled together in this disruption (to make a 15 car train) - 801104 + 801108 + 801112. I'm guessing this is likely a mistake?

Realtime Trains | 1D15 1303 London Kings Cross to Leeds | 04/06/2022

Real-time train running information for 1D15 1303 departure from London Kings Cross to Leeds on 04/06/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

With all the disruption, it'll probably have been a change of booked set at Kings Cross which affects the data shown on RTT

gazzaa2 · 4 Jun 2022

skyhigh said:
Spot on

If the disruption was caused by a vulnerable person with mental health issues, is it a good idea to issue them a 'hefty punishment'...?

You'd expect they'd be sectioned under MHA and get the help they need from there.

bramling · 4 Jun 2022

gazzaa2 said:
You'd expect they'd be sectioned under MHA and get the help they need from there.

Mental health “care” in this country is absolutely dire. From what I’ve seen there’s very little in the way of help in the majority of cases.

Getting meaningful help for someone proactively is virtually impossible, hence why we see many examples where things have progressed to the cry for help stage.

I have some experience in having attempted to sort something for a relative some time ago, and in all honesty the service was absolutely useless, and quite frankly made things worse not better.

centro-323 · 4 Jun 2022

Disruption now over, the individual in question was found in a tree clear of the line, and normal running was resumed.

bramling · 4 Jun 2022

Saint66 said:
The Police helicopter was called in to assist in the search too.

Causing a lot of issues with thousands also travelling to see Liam Gallagher at Knebworth.

Without wishing to be too much of a humbug, given the trouble this concert has caused locally, I will forgive myself for not losing too much sleep on that one…

baz962 · 4 Jun 2022

XIX7007177 said:
Sadly mental health services are appalling so this sort of issue will only get worse.

And with the cost of living crisis and people still reeling from covid , wether from lockdown or loss of work or business. I really feel for people and I have been a bit more nervous flying through platforms. I had one trespass incident in my career and now had two in a week.

peteb · 4 Jun 2022

bramling said:
Mental health “care” in this country is absolutely dire. From what I’ve seen there’s very little in the way of help in the majority of cases.

Getting meaningful help for someone proactively is virtually impossible, hence why we see many examples where things have progressed to the cry for help stage.

I have some experience in having attempted to sort something for a relative some time ago, and in all honesty the service was absolutely useless, and quite frankly made things worse not better.

It will only get sorted when something like this disruption affects royalty or government officials (BJ?) .......I bet the mental health services would then be found to act in next to no time and the "resolution" in terms of managing the disruption would be swift....but how swift the resolution for the poor individual concerned would be is another matter........

Bayum · 4 Jun 2022

gazzaa2 said:
You'd expect they'd be sectioned under MHA and get the help they need from there.

I mean, the person has to be ‘caught’ first in order for a section to take place.
Just because the situation played out as it were doesn’t necessarily mean that there was due cause to detain under the MHA once the situation finished. Mental health, as with everything, is a very fine spectrum. In much the same way someone may have no agency to make one decision doesn’t mean they don’t have that ability later or with another choice. If the attending police/NHS on-site deemed their mental health to be an issue, great. But where do you take them? How long for? Lots of things at play in such situations.

MikeWM · 4 Jun 2022

GN were already running a very thinned-out sevice today due to (you guessed it) 'lack of drivers'. No through service north of Cambridge, no Cambridge fasts, one of the slows missing too. Not sure when they decided on that timetable, was a bit of a surprise when deciding to head to London today to find no direct trains from Ely instead of the usual two an hour.

The disruption due to this partly disguises how badly they were failing today anyway. Only 8 years into the francise, obviously not enough time to have found enough drivers yet...

I saw part of last night's problem too - big queue of LNER trains waiting to get into Peterborough just after 2100. Fortunately I was heading for Ely, so we just zoomed past them all...

But yes, bad couple of days for the south end of the ECMl.

High Dyke · 4 Jun 2022

MikeWM said:
I saw part of last night's problem too - big queue of LNER trains waiting to get into Peterborough just after 2100. Fortunately I was heading for Ely, so we just zoomed past them all...

But yes, bad couple of days for the south end of the ECMl.

The queue was further delayed by power supply issues, apparently too many trains in the area at the same time.

davsarg · 4 Jun 2022

I was on the 7:52 from Aberdeen down to KC. Arrived nearly 2 hours late and turned what should of been a nice relaxed transfer to Paddington into a mad Frantic rush!

ECML Disruption 04/06/2022

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