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‘Driver’ isn’t the only job on the railway

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route101

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To an outsider like me, the entry level positions like gateline or ticket office staff are well paid compared to retail. Though they do appear to be often part time, so I wonder how they top up their wages, if they are single.

I graduated last year with a degree in Building Surveying, in my 30s. Was looking at Network Rail for entry level Building Surveying positions but they only hire experienced hires, I contacted them if they would entertain work experience but they don't do that.
 
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Stigy

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To an outsider like me, the entry level positions like gateline or ticket office staff are well paid compared to retail. Though they do appear to be often part time, so I wonder how they top up their wages, if they are single.

I graduated last year with a degree in Building Surveying, in my 30s. Was looking at Network Rail for entry level Building Surveying positions but they only hire experienced hires, I contacted them if they would entertain work experience but they don't do that.
Have you tried graduate schemes that bother NWR and TOCs/FOCs often advertise for? These usually either encompass operations or customer service, some do both. You can then apply for positions when they are advertised generally after doing your time and gaining experience.
 

RJ

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To an outsider like me, the entry level positions like gateline or ticket office staff are well paid compared to retail. Though they do appear to be often part time, so I wonder how they top up their wages, if they are single.

A lot of people in these roles have side hustles!
 

route101

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Have you tried graduate schemes that bother NWR and TOCs/FOCs often advertise for? These usually either encompass operations or customer service, some do both. You can then apply for positions when they are advertised generally after doing your time and gaining experience.
I didn't apply for NR last year, I was focusing on Building Surveying. In hindsight I should of. The requirement for the property programme was for a real estate degree and they couldn't accept Building Surveying. Will no doubt apply this year for them. I see NR advertise for planning assistant, not sure how entry level that is.
 

Astro_Orbiter

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The Control people I've known all earn basically the same, if not slightly more than a driver, depending on the TOC obviously. I reckon its all about finding a role that you enjoy and that suits your nature and personality. Driving and working in a control room are almost opposite ends of the spectrum lol
 

LowLevel

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Control rooms average 30+ people in different roles which all pay 40K plus

If it's anything like the ones I know they're odds on for having to reapply for their jobs every few years as some clever sparks decide to reorganise things (it's at it's most depressing when they decide to put it back to how it was before the last reorg when they paid off their most experienced staff, but with less talent this time round). Much like management. That at least doesn't often happen to traincrew at this moment in time.
 

Stigy

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Control room roles are really good. a lot of them pay more than driver roles
Indeed, but most are almost “reserved” for those with high level incident commander status or experience in that sort of field (former Police Inspectors, Fire/Ambulance officers or NWR career structure incident controllers etc.).
 

LowLevel

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Control rooms average 30+ people in different roles which all pay 40K plus

If it's anything like the ones I know they're odds on for having to reapply for their jobs every few years as some clever sparks decide to reorganise things (it's at it's most depressing when they decide to put it back to how it was before the last reorg when they paid off their most experienced staff, but with less talent this time round). Much like managers. That at least doesn't often happen to traincrew at this moment in time.
 

Highlandspring

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Indeed, but most are almost “reserved” for those with high level incident commander status or experience in that sort of field (former Police Inspectors, Fire/Ambulance officers or NWR career structure incident controllers etc.).
A certain TOC in Scotland has controllers who have come into the job from being ticket examiners, cleaning supervisors, station staff, depot shunters, delay attribution, general apprentices etc.. etc..

NR Control is a wee bit different - a significant degree of front line operational railway experience helps but even then it's not entirely unheard of to come in from being managed station staff, roster clerk etc..
 

LowLevel

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A certain TOC in Scotland has controllers who have come into the job from being ticket examiners, cleaning supervisors, station staff, depot shunters, delay attribution, general apprentices etc.. etc..

NR Control is a wee bit different - a significant degree of front line operational railway experience helps but even then it's not entirely unheard of to come in from being managed station staff, roster clerk etc..

Same here - our control is full of former guards, station staff, managers, supervisors etc.
 

Horizon22

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The Control people I've known all earn basically the same, if not slightly more than a driver, depending on the TOC obviously. I reckon its all about finding a role that you enjoy and that suits your nature and personality. Driving and working in a control room are almost opposite ends of the spectrum lol

Not especially. I mean yes one is in an office and one is out and about, but you're still dealing with the signaller, station staff, resources etc. TOC service controller roles can often earn 40-50K+, plus the shifts are more defined (0700 start for an early shift for instance) as opposed to some random time between 0300-0500 for a driver.

It does require a different skill set and not everyone is suited to it (including many already in the roles...) but its definitely got people from a variety of backgrounds including those new to rail albeit from other similar industries (aviation / emergency services / road control centres). They are less sought after than drivers / guards, but they're still competitive and you often need some form of relevant experience; not often you can walk into these roles unless you're doing CIS / social media or delay attribution, but those grades are more in the 20-30K mark.
 
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Stigy

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A certain TOC in Scotland has controllers who have come into the job from being ticket examiners, cleaning supervisors, station staff, depot shunters, delay attribution, general apprentices etc.. etc..

NR Control is a wee bit different - a significant degree of front line operational railway experience helps but even then it's not entirely unheard of to come in from being managed station staff, roster clerk etc..
I guess it also depends what type of controller it is. It was not NWR I was taking about. Agreed it’s not unheard of to come from the backgrounds you’ve listed, but certainly Incident Controllers’ person specification outlines you need to have certain experiences.
 

DriverEight

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I think the thing that makes the driver's job unique is not the size of the salary, its how quickly you can be earning that salary. You can go from no qualifications and no railway experience to £70k in two years. I doubt that there's many jobs in which that's possible. In most careers you need to be highly qualified before you start or work your way up a long ladder. Train drivers go from zero to hero in very short order.
 

6Gman

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There's certainly an element of "drivers are the top dogs" in the industry, and it cuts both ways as there's people in other grades who can be quite anti-driver. At the end of the day the delivery of a train service requires a whole string of people, both on the day and in the planning stages.

The driving grade is wonderful, but I'd agree it's only part of the story.
The railway has always had too much of :

The guard is the man, who rides in a van
At the back of a long, long train.
The man at the front thinks the guard is a ****
And the guard thinks the driver's the same.


A charming ditty I heard in my first few weeks in the industry.

In reality the railway works on teamwork - footplate, guard, station staff, signallers, engineers, train planners, commercial etc. etc.

I think the thing that makes the driver's job unique is not the size of the salary, its how quickly you can be earning that salary. You can go from no qualifications and no railway experience to £70k in two years. I doubt that there's many jobs in which that's possible. In most careers you need to be highly qualified before you start or work your way up a long ladder. Train drivers go from zero to hero in very short order.
Historically, of course, getting from starter to driver could take 20 years but the junior roles have vanished since we no longer need cleaners or firemen!
 

DriverEight

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There's a great clip on YouTube about a kid that joins the railways as a cleaner, and it's shows the career path right up to the fabled "top link man" Even the plummy voiced narrator speaks of him in hushed, reverential tones....
 

TeaTrain

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What an interesting read. I agree that Train Driver is not the only role and I really really don’t understand why they are seen as the elite. We all answer to someone.
I worked as a guard, platform staff, booking office, rail replacement and even interim platform safety inspector.
Now I am a Trainee Train Driver. Every single job on the railway feeds into each other and we need each other to be the best we can be.
I am grateful to the cleaners and always say thank you. Because they keep my train nice and clean for my passengers and colleagues.
The dispatcher helps to ensure safe and timely operations, gives customer service. The guard is my onboard team mate who I can trust to help in emergency or degraded situations. Control is there to help if I have the need. I could write an endless post!
Since being on the railway I knew I wanted to be a driver because the loneliness suits me and my personality. I like the peacefulness and I like that I must take huge responsibilities. That my actions mean a lot. I like working nights. I enjoy learning and adhering to the rules of the railway and Professional Driver Policy.
It’s bloody good money for me too! More than I thought I could ever earn. It has afforded me with an incredible life. And I have only been a trainee for 1 year. Of which most of it was sat at home. We were on full salary after 8 weeks. There is no stepping of wage over years.

There are many career paths from Train Driver. I can understand some of the comments about shift work and standing in the rain at 3am. But really it’s not that bad. By the time you get your rest days and AL it’s barely half a years work. There is not really much to complain about. Even as a guard it was cushty. And HHD guards had to prep the trains at 4am for the drivers. Not really a big deal considering the wage your given.
 
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Jlob2804

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It seems like people are more likely to go from other roles to driver than from driver to other roles. OF COURSE it's not the only good job on the railway, but there has to be something in that. Maybe it's because when you become a driver you realise that all the 'too good to be true' things people say about the job are genuinely true. There are down sides like earlies and repetition etc but, in my opinion they're outweighed. Moving office, no manager on your case, low stress, outsiders intreged by your job, early darts, good money, half the year off to have a life outside work, or enhanced OT and strong Union. My previous railway job was so stressful I only wish I'd done it sooner. Although that might be a bit of confirmation bias on my part.
 

philly1001

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Ive seen controllers leave to go driving and came back. Apart from a more social environment to work in, control rooms offer more variety of jobs and more opportunities for progression in other departments. progression from driving is somewhat limited with sometimes tens of drivers fighting for the same DM job. O/T is abundant in control rooms and with an average 36 hr week over 3 days at most the work life balance is better and you got more days off to work your rest days if you want.
 

theironroad

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Ive seen controllers leave to go driving and came back. Apart from a more social environment to work in, control rooms offer more variety of jobs and more opportunities for progression in other departments. progression from driving is somewhat limited with sometimes tens of drivers fighting for the same DM job. O/T is abundant in control rooms and with an average 36 hr week over 3 days at most the work life balance is better and you got more days off to work your rest days if you want.

I'd agree that control has more opportunities for progression and is potentially more interesting day to day.

Certainly in my experience and on my TOC there certainly is not fighting for DM jobs, quite the opposite in fact and they struggle to get a decent amount of applicants.
 

bramling

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Ive seen controllers leave to go driving and came back. Apart from a more social environment to work in, control rooms offer more variety of jobs and more opportunities for progression in other departments. progression from driving is somewhat limited with sometimes tens of drivers fighting for the same DM job. O/T is abundant in control rooms and with an average 36 hr week over 3 days at most the work life balance is better and you got more days off to work your rest days if you want.

More nights in control roles though, and less chance of there being people willing to take them. Driver nights don’t come up that often, and when they do there’s often a coterie of regular night people who will be happy to do them.

In control roles where a post requires 24x7 cover, you’re looking at a 7-man roster which will mean nights every 7 weeks. A bigger roster may mean they become a little less frequent, but not massively so.

Lots of people don’t like nights.

20k Difference in the control room at my work. (FOC) 27k-35k going rate for controllers. £55k minimum for qualified drivers

LU controllers are in about 70k. The extra pay arises from the fact that they *directly* implement safety-critical procedures, and deal with the first line of traction current switching. Like driver, it’s another role where the staff have a fair bit of leverage.
 
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Was begged and bossed into the clerical side of the industry as a youngster when I only wanted to drive trains, ended up at the ticket office of a busy mainline station, as an introvert I detested the nature of the role, the constant talking, questions, the cash handling, the station PA system constantly coming through the microphones, I've given up on ever getting the job now given my age, the amount of applicant screening and passing the stage 1 to OPC level but not to TOC level which has now expired.
 

nom de guerre

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Since being on the railway I knew I wanted to be a driver because the loneliness suits me and my personality. I like the peacefulness and I like that I must take huge responsibilities. That my actions mean a lot. I like working nights. I enjoy learning and adhering to the rules of the railway

I can relate to many of these. Equally applicable in some signalling roles (luckily for me!).

I think the thing that makes the driver's job unique is not the size of the salary, its how quickly you can be earning that salary. You can go from no qualifications and no railway experience to £70k in two years. I doubt that there's many jobs in which that's possible. In most careers you need to be highly qualified before you start or work your way up a long ladder. Train drivers go from zero to hero in very short order.

I don't want to sound anti-driver (I'm not) or excessively pro-signaller, but: signaller. It's becoming increasingly common for external candidates with no railway experience to walk straight into Grade 6+ jobs (the level which is typically required to earn £70K). Even if you include signalling school (2-3 months), learning the box (typically anywhere between 1-6 months to 'pass out' to the degree required to achieve full pay), it's still usually much quicker than 2 years.

A lot of people in these roles have side hustles!

As do some of us! Two of my colleagues run buy-to-let 'empires' and another owns a pottery shop. I'm averaging five shifts a month so far this year, so I'm beginning to consider it...

20k Difference in the control room at my work. (FOC) 27k-35k going rate for controllers. £55k minimum for qualified drivers

NR controllers are usually £50k+ basic, IIRC.
 

joshuan542

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My brother got in though On trak recruitment at Clapham junction as a Dispatcher, Then was one day offered full time employment with Southern as station staff at Peckham Rye, He has passed I think his track safety licence or somthing similar and starting to train other people at the station. I am thinking of trying with On trak recruitment if I fail my current driver application but I might never get offered a job full time with southern or whoever the operating company may be And only be given little hours as its temporary and only when they need you type work. He does alot of night work now ie 10.30pm until 6am so just stays at the station himself overnight like a security officer apart from the last few trains.
Keep trying, dont be phased, I worked for Thameslink for 2 years on the gates, and on monday I now begin my new venture with the southern franchise as a shunter on the south coast, It took me approx 5 interviews to break free of the gates for example internally. Just apply, and be persistent and you will one day be rewarded
 

PudseyBearHST

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Does anyone know about working in RAIB/RSSB/ORR? For example, people who investigate operational incidents/accidents and people involved in operational standards such as making amendments to the rulebook. Do they generally have prior operational experience themselves?
 

Highlandspring

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Does anyone know about working in RAIB/RSSB/ORR? For example, people who investigate operational incidents/accidents and people involved in operational standards such as making amendments to the rulebook. Do they generally have prior operational experience themselves?

In my dealings with with ORR and RAIB in the past it seems to be a mixture. I’ve met some who have very impressive railway experience but also a few who have come from outside the industry, for example an ORR Inspector who was in his first job after graduating and a RAIB Investigator who came from the nuclear industry.
 
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