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‘Via’, ‘Then’, ‘For’

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kez19

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The latter photo is what has been applied to all buses with that display set-up. The first photo was just when they entered service, only lasted a couple of weeks like that.

I wondered that, I’m fascinated with how GNE do with their fleet seem to be one step ahead in my book (maybe wrong to some degree but have used them)
 
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30907

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Does the technology exist to have destination blinds change automatically once a bus has passed an intermediate place listed as via? Consider a service displaying

DESTINATION via A and B

A passenger who is not familiar with the local routes or geography in location B might reasonably expect that bus to take them to point A when in fact they need a service in the opposite direction.
I think this is used by Transdev (on routes well under 50km, to pick up the earlier discussion), but don't know if it is automated:
Blackburn 6/7 circular via Great Harwood-Accrington-Oswaldtwistle ISTR the newest vehicles changed displays en route Gt H then Accy, Accy then Blackburn (I left Gt H a couple of years ago so can't check.
Keighley 60 to Leeds I think does similar changes, but not on all vehicles.
Or is it the interior displays I'm thinking of? Haven't been on a bus for months...
 

kez19

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Might not be exact (apologies) but I think Stagecoach (Strathtay) on the X7 from Perth to Aberdeen but they seem to change the display once it’s reached a certain point (no operators in Dundee are using this yet though) but I have seen say the X7 come from Perth to Dundee, it changes then displays the next via points
 

SCH117X

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A number of Transdev vehicles change destination display en route although whether it is automatic or down to the driver I am not sure. The Harrogate-Knaresborough-Knaresborough Estates service start out with Knaresborough then [Estate name] and just before Knaresborough bus station change to show the estate name only. Equally full length 36s from Leeds start out with Harrogate then Ripon and usually change to just Ripon on the first pass of Bettys Tea Rooms in Harrogate (the route normally does a complete loop back on to a section of road already passed along).
 
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Again on the Transdev point, a key route they use 'then' on is the 7. It shows 'Wetherby then Harrogate'. This has nothing to do with the length of the route but simply assumes that most passengers from Leeds will not be travelling all the way to Harrogate (when the 36 is much quicker), and so most will be travelling to Wetherby or the villages before.

I believe once it gets to Wetherby it will change to 'Harrogate FAST'.
 
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Should but not always.

Can ticket machines which work off GPS link to displays to change the display when appropriate automatically?

I believe that the ticket machine, next stop announcements/ display and destination board can all be integrated to run together. I can't confirm this as I am only a regular transdev passenger, not a driver but it seems that it is all automatic, presumably via GPS as you say.

It is noticeably automated if there is ever a diversion in place on route, the voice will read 'we are going an alternative way due to a diversion, ask your driver for more details' or something like that.
 

Class465pacer

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TfL buses used to have a via point on the left side blind. It’s now been replaced with a blind for the actual destination which I think is the better option
 

Deerfold

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I believe that the ticket machine, next stop announcements/ display and destination board can all be integrated to run together. I can't confirm this as I am only a regular transdev passenger, not a driver but it seems that it is all automatic, presumably via GPS as you say.

It is noticeably automated if there is ever a diversion in place on route, the voice will read 'we are going an alternative way due to a diversion, ask your driver for more details' or something like that.

Transdev's ticket machines are linked to GPS - they know if geographical tickets are valid at that stop - occasionally they're wrong and the driver can override it. Once a driver refused to and I had a rigmarole getting the extra fare I paid back.
 

Scott M

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Thanks for the replies guys.

From reading the replies, it seems ‘then’ and ‘for’ are mainly used to comply with EU distance regulations, but occasionally are instead used if a point mid route is more popular than the final destination. Perhaps their usage will therefore drastically reduce once we leave the EU.
 

Deerfold

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Thanks for the replies guys.

From reading the replies, it seems ‘then’ and ‘for’ are mainly used to comply with EU distance regulations, but occasionally are instead used if a point mid route is more popular than the final destination. Perhaps their usage will therefore drastically reduce once we leave the EU.

We've left the EU. We're in a transition period until the end of the year.
I'll be very surprised if there's a rush to change this legislation next year.
 

Scott M

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We've left the EU. We're in a transition period until the end of the year.
I'll be very surprised if there's a rush to change this legislation next year.
Yeah, I imagine there are more pressing matters to attend to first.
 

carlberry

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Thanks for the replies guys.

From reading the replies, it seems ‘then’ and ‘for’ are mainly used to comply with EU distance regulations, but occasionally are instead used if a point mid route is more popular than the final destination. Perhaps their usage will therefore drastically reduce once we leave the EU.
The regulation is now a UK regulation. It's unlikely the government will care enough to change it any time soon; they didn't care enough to block it when it was introduced or apply for a derogation. Operators have quite happily found a way around it, removing it is only likely if the freight industry thought it could get away with removing all tacho rules for UK internal journeys.
 

Scott M

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The regulation is now a UK regulation. It's unlikely the government will care enough to change it any time soon; they didn't care enough to block it when it was introduced or apply for a derogation. Operators have quite happily found a way around it, removing it is only likely if the freight industry thought it could get away with removing all tacho rules for UK internal journeys.
Bus operators may not want to try to get rid of it in case it goes the other way in terms of the government say it has to be strictly enforced.
 

DunsBus

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DSC_0001 2 Copy.jpg

Here's one from my area. The 60 Berwick to Galashiels service is a split registration, a legacy of its latter days under First. Buses change screens at Duns to show the ultimate destination.

This was on a diversion from the usual route through Duns town centre, due to part of it being closed for resurfacing.
 

lewisjn

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Does the technology exist to have destination blinds change automatically once a bus has passed an intermediate place listed as via? Consider a service displaying

DESTINATION via A and B

A passenger who is not familiar with the local routes or geography in location B might reasonably expect that bus to take them to point A when in fact they need a service in the opposite direction.

It is possible with buses fitted with next-stop information if connected to the external displays - you can add an 'action' to change the external displays as well as the ever-changing internal ones. I have done this at white bus - our 68 and 69 plates use Mobitec next-stop (same as Transdev) and all services lose the vias as they leave the last stop before the next town. The final screen is just an ultimate destination, sometimes with an additional qualifier if necessary. Some routes can have half a dozen changes along the route!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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The regulation is now a UK regulation. It's unlikely the government will care enough to change it any time soon; they didn't care enough to block it when it was introduced or apply for a derogation. Operators have quite happily found a way around it, removing it is only likely if the freight industry thought it could get away with removing all tacho rules for UK internal journeys.

Too many other distractions for the government to worry about this and, to be honest, they would really struggle to have UK Domestic in the freight industry (other than milk collections where there is currently a derogation anyway)
 

Simon75

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Arriva (Shrewsbury) 64/164 Shrewsbury to Hanley
From Shrewsbury Shows 64 Market Drayton (with connections to Hanley) (words to effect). At Market Drayton changes to 164 Hanley

First Essex have the 100 Lakeside to Chelmsford. Up until about late 2019 would show 100 Chelmsford/ 100 Lakeside. In Chelmsford a 200 yard reroute via Odeon roundabout makes now just over 50km, and it now show 100 Basildon then Chelmsford/Lakeside

The X10 Basildon to Stansted airport
Chelmsford then Stansted/Basildon
X30 Southend to Stansted
Chelmsford then Southend/Stansted
 

TheGrandWazoo

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Stumbled across this one Flickr


An sort of example I'd forgotten of a "Main Place" and then "Lesser destination"

For those not from the North and not familiar with the geography, this shows a bus running from Hartlepool to Middlesbrough but in pre-dereg days, it continued onto the suburb of Marton in the southern reaches of Middlesbrough.

If they'd just put Marton on there, I guess it wouldn't have made much sense to the good folk of Hartlepool!
 

TheGrandWazoo

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I suspect these days it'd just be 2 lines:

Marton
via Middlesbrough

It's an odd one that I'd forgotten about. United didn't do many VIA points either!!

Another United trait was on relatively local routes (some were circulars but some not) would be to have the start and finish point, such as....

DURHAM
NEW BRANCEPETH

BISHOP AUCKLAND
SHILDON

I presume this was so drivers didn't have to change blinds (previously a conductors' job) on short runs after they converted to One Man Operation (as it was called)
 

SCH117X

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Connexions X70 is a bit a of a muddle.
You have between Harrogate and Wetherby two different X70 routes, one referenced as Fast, Direct or via Plumpton Rocks and the other seems to be displayed via Rudding Park despite Follifoot being the largest settlement on the route.
Pre Covid selected journeys continued as 412s to York resulting in also a then York on the display
In the return the same applies however their is a twist in that they have registered the Direct route as variable so that they can run via Follifoot which presumably explains the unhelpful via Spofforth displays that have appeared at times - Spofforth being where the two routes join/divide.
 

asb

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And then there are the displays where you wish that x then y had been used instead of y via x. The one that always got me was in Worcester, where short 372 journeys were shown to terminate at Baynhall via Kempsey (such as on this bus, photographed by Ben Morroll on midlandred.net http://midlandred.net/vehicles/photograph.php?operator=mrw&type=lance&fleet=67319&image=2. )This was annoying because:

a) Baynhall is a tiny hamlet and Kempsey a chunky village
b) The bus only went to Baynhall as there was nowhere to turn in Kempsey

I'm not sure what the 32 that does the same thing says these days, hopefully it says Kempsey via St. Peters and ignores the Baynhall bit altogether!
 

Ken H

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And for plain daft you have the KLCH 580/581/582 for the Skipton - Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. Buses work through but change number twice. And have all the 'then stuff' too.. Why cant it just be the 80 all the way? (Old Ribble number)
But its commercial Skipton - Settle, NYCC subsidise Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale and Lancashire CC subsidise kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. Except Kirkby Lonsdale is in Cumbria. I assume the driver can use 'comfort facilities' in the Naked Man in Settle (when its open) and Booths in Kirkby Lonsdale.
Oh. and Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire garage is in Morecambe.
 

NorthOxonian

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And for plain daft you have the KLCH 580/581/582 for the Skipton - Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. Buses work through but change number twice. And have all the 'then stuff' too.. Why cant it just be the 80 all the way? (Old Ribble number)
But its commercial Skipton - Settle, NYCC subsidise Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale and Lancashire CC subsidise kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. Except Kirkby Lonsdale is in Cumbria. I assume the driver can use 'comfort facilities' in the Naked Man in Settle (when its open) and Booths in Kirkby Lonsdale.
Oh. and Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire garage is in Morecambe.

See also the 69/620, which works through from Bath to Stroud via Yate. The displays say "Old Sodbury for Stroud".

I believe the 69 is subsidised by Gloucestershire county and the 620 by South Gloucestershire unitary, though you'd think the routes would change over at Yate, Chipping Sodbury, or maybe Tetbury - all of which are reasonably large towns compared to the tiny Old Sodbury.
 

TheGrandWazoo

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See also the 69/620, which works through from Bath to Stroud via Yate. The displays say "Old Sodbury for Stroud".

I believe the 69 is subsidised by Gloucestershire county and the 620 by South Gloucestershire unitary, though you'd think the routes would change over at Yate, Chipping Sodbury, or maybe Tetbury - all of which are reasonably large towns compared to the tiny Old Sodbury.

It's not the most obvious spot

 

Andyh82

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And for plain daft you have the KLCH 580/581/582 for the Skipton - Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. Buses work through but change number twice. And have all the 'then stuff' too.. Why cant it just be the 80 all the way? (Old Ribble number)
But its commercial Skipton - Settle, NYCC subsidise Settle - Kirkby Lonsdale and Lancashire CC subsidise kirkby Lonsdale - Lancaster. Except Kirkby Lonsdale is in Cumbria. I assume the driver can use 'comfort facilities' in the Naked Man in Settle (when its open) and Booths in Kirkby Lonsdale.
Oh. and Kirkby Lonsdale Coach Hire garage is in Morecambe.
Sounds like over the top interpretation of the rules to me

This also applies to the 11 and 11G/11M between Rhyl and Chester where the service changes number at Holywell, but could in theory use the same numbers throughout
 

LUYMun

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In my local area there is a number of large schools and colleges which requires my local Stagecoach operator to make alterations to divert or extend a number of routes at specific times to serve them. On schooldays, one bus route (10 from Church Crookham to Farnborough) would have "then School A" as the service is extended, whilst the same route, serving a different school, has "for School B" as that service is diverted.
 

TB

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Transdev (certainly in Keighley, anyway) used to use 'via', but some services didn't have an '&' between points, so the 2 line display would be something like:

760 Keighley
via Rodley, Calverley, Shipley

whereas they now use 'then':

62 Otley & Ilkley
then Leeds Bradford (plane logo)
 
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