03:37 LIV to MIA - Updated now Cressington to Heathrow

[Grumpy Git]

I'm planning an early departure from Manchester Airport on 22nd March. According to the various booking sites this (currently suspended) service is due to be running.

Can anyone comment on if it will indeed be available please?

I have used it many times pre-pandemic.

 

[SargeNpton]

STP cancelled from 29/1/21 to 1/3/21. At a guess, the service levels will be reviewed later this week and that STP cancellation carried forward or not as the case may be.

Check again this time next week.

 

[PHILIPE]

The Timetable is reviewed and updated on the Friday before for the following week so what you see now is the base Timetable. As TFW always say, keep checking even on the day of travel.

EDIT:- Just checked it out and not affected by current lockdown but cancelled for the duration of the current base Timetable from December throughout until May

 

[peters]

Northern's current temporary timetable applies until 7th March. Whether all services which were included in the December timetable will be reinstated by then is the million pound question, it's worth noting the only change on that date is schools reopening, so as school pupils won't be travelling to a school at Manchester Airport at 4am, I personally think it's unlikely Northern will reinstate that service.

 

[Grumpy Git]

The Timetable is reviewed and updated on the Friday before for the following week so what you see now is the base Timetable. As TFW always say, keep checking even on the day of travel.

EDIT:- Just checked it out and not affected by current lockdown but cancelled for the duration of the current base Timetable from December throughout until May

So that's a NO then?

 

[PHILIPE]

So that's a NO then?

Not quite. I'm afraid I misled you but it could restart at some point but you will have to keep checking. The TOC wouldn't know at this stage as it would depend on COVID

 

[Bald Rick]

Very unlikely I’d say. Unlikely to be any changes to any service (apart from trains for schools traffic) by then.

 

[185]

Someone at Northern planning went into the system on Friday 26 Feb 2021 and deleted five more weeks worth of late evening & night trains from the system, from 8 March 2021 through to 11 April 2021.

Their CS twitter then claimed those services, shown on National Rail Enquiries were "there in error". Several routes which should see trains at 1am now have services abandoned at 8.45pm - on many routes Northern being the sole operator.

It beggars belief one can catch a train to Wem at 1am and commit ungodly acts in farmers fields whilst cities with 2,3 or 4million people have zero service on some routes after 9pm.

I was going to mention that I had contacted Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris MP asking to protect key workers by insisting that first and last trains either run or supply a bus, but this discussion was swiftly ushered into speculative ideas. His reply, contained a load of cut-paste garb supplied by DOR's press lady that summarised reads

- this service reflects passenger demand
- lots of drivers are off sick
- new drivers aren't being minded, and
- traincrew won't get in taxis

...which is rather disingenuous given that this is the either one of few, or the only TOC to use these reasons to abandon trains 4-5 hours early. Other 'adult' TOCs seem to have interpreted the DfT's "please cut your services by 20%" as "thin the daytime services out but still run first and last trains" ...not "wooo go home early" a la half-a-job Northern.

 

[Jim]

Someone at Northern planning went into the system on Friday 26 Feb 2021 and deleted five more weeks worth of late evening & night trains from the system, from 8 March 2021 through to 11 April 2021.

Their CS twitter then claimed those services, shown on National Rail Enquiries were "there in error". Several routes which should see trains at 1am now have services abandoned at 8.45pm - on many routes Northern being the sole operator.

It beggars belief one can catch a train to Wem at 1am and commit ungodly acts in farmers fields whilst cities with 2,3 or 4million people have zero service on some routes after 9pm.

I was going to mention that I had contacted Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris MP asking to protect key workers by insisting that first and last trains either run or supply a bus, but this discussion was swiftly ushered into speculative ideas. His reply, contained a load of cut-paste garb supplied by DOR's press lady that summarised reads

- this service reflects passenger demand
- lots of drivers are off sick
- new drivers aren't being minded, and
- traincrew won't get in taxis

...which is rather disingenuous given that this is the either one of few, or the only TOC to use these reasons to abandon trains 4-5 hours early. Other 'adult' TOCs seem to have interpreted the DfT's "please cut your services by 20%" as "thin the daytime services out but still run first and last trains" ...not "wooo go home early" a la half-a-job Northern.

Northern certainly aren't the only ones doing this, quite a lot of first and last trains have at various stages been removed by GWR.
There was even a few Saturdays where the 0500 Bristol to Portsmouth was starting at Westbury, RUNNING ECS FROM BRISTOL TO WESTBURY!

Last Plymouth to Exeter on a Sunday now runs empty stock.

That's two examples that I can think off of top of my head.

 

[peters]

Someone at Northern planning went into the system on Friday 26 Feb 2021 and deleted five more weeks worth of late evening & night trains from the system, from 8 March 2021 through to 11 April 2021.

Their CS twitter then claimed those services, shown on National Rail Enquiries were "there in error". Several routes which should see trains at 1am now have services abandoned at 8.45pm - on many routes Northern being the sole operator.

It beggars belief one can catch a train to Wem at 1am and commit ungodly acts in farmers fields whilst cities with 2,3 or 4million people have zero service on some routes after 9pm.

I was going to mention that I had contacted Rail Minister Chris Heaton-Harris MP asking to protect key workers by insisting that first and last trains either run or supply a bus, but this discussion was swiftly ushered into speculative ideas. His reply, contained a load of cut-paste garb supplied by DOR's press lady that summarised reads

- this service reflects passenger demand
- lots of drivers are off sick
- new drivers aren't being minded, and
- traincrew won't get in taxis

...which is rather disingenuous given that this is the either one of few, or the only TOC to use these reasons to abandon trains 4-5 hours early. Other 'adult' TOCs seem to have interpreted the DfT's "please cut your services by 20%" as "thin the daytime services out but still run first and last trains" ...not "wooo go home early" a la half-a-job Northern.

If the current timetable is still going to 'reflect passenger demand' from 8 March then Northern must be of the opinion that:
1. They don't carry any significant numbers of school and college pupils on a particular route.
2. That the services timed for 'critical workers' are also running at the right time for schools.

Apparently the mass COVID vaccination centres are open from 8am to 8pm 7 days a week. If train services are meeting demand then surely they will allow workers and volunteers to get to/from both the early and late shifts at these centres. As it is lines have first services getting into Manchester at around 8:30 on weekdays.

 

[185]

I had looked at GWR, but they were showing evening trains running quite late. For instance, Plymouth Exeter still has a 2315 tonight.

A comparative on a busy main arterial service into Manchester now sees 2145 as Northern's final service from 8th March.

 

[scrapy]

The bit about crew not getting in taxis is absolute rubbish. Northern crew are using taxis and have been doing all through the pandemic except for a few weeks at the start. There are certain agreements such as 1 person per taxi, meaning sending a driver and a guard costs twice as much.

Apparently the mass COVID vaccination centres are open from 8am to 8pm 7 days a week. If train services are meeting demand then surely they will allow workers and volunteers to get to/from both the early and late shifts at these centres. As it is lines have first services getting into Manchester at around 8:30 on weekdays.

The only line that I can see with a first service so late (08.17 arrival) is the Mid Cheshire line. Whilst there is probably a case for an earlier service on this line, Given the fact most roles are low pay agency jobs, I can't imagine that many, if any staff travel all the way from Knutsford or Northwich on this route to the centre. Altrincham area has Metrolink which is probably more convenient anyway.

 

[peters]

The only line that I can see with a first service so late (08.17 arrival) is the Mid Cheshire line. Whilst there is probably a case for an earlier service on this line, Given the fact most roles are low pay agency jobs, I can't imagine that many, if any staff travel all the way from Knutsford or Northwich on this route to the centre. Altrincham area has Metrolink which is probably more convenient anyway.

Looking at all times for Piccadilly it seems Hale, Edale, Nantwich, Lancaster and Stafford are the first stations on their respective lines where the first arrival is currently after 8am.

I would be very surprised if there are not doctors from the Manchester area hospitals based in the likes of Hale, Alderley Edge, Wilmslow, Knutsford, Chelford etc. but probably the NHS professionals living that far out are the ones who won't be reliant on the train. The exception being temporary instances like when their car's in for servicing or due to them taking medication which might prevent them from driving.

 

[Crossover]

...and Stafford are the first stations on their respective lines where the first arrival is currently after 8am

Not sure I follow - there is an arrival from Manchester at Stafford and at Manchester from Stafford earlier than 8am

 

[Glenn1969]

I believe the Northern temporary timetable has now been extended to 10th April. I guess what happens after that depends on whether Boris sticks to Phase 2 of his roadmap

 

[peters]

Not sure I follow - there is an arrival from Manchester at Stafford and at Manchester from Stafford earlier than 8am

I was talking about services TO Manchester i.e. ones which people working in Manchester can use. The earliest which I can find is the 08:23 arrival from Birmingham New Street.

 

[Watershed]

I'm planning an early departure from Manchester Airport on 22nd March. According to the various booking sites this (currently suspended) service is due to be running.

Can anyone comment on if it will indeed be available please?

I have used it many times pre-pandemic.

The sensible option is to book a hotel at the airport. There's no guarantee the train will run even if it's currently showing in the timetable.

Even if you book a ticket on that train now, if (as is probable) it ends up not running, Delay Repay on a £20 odd ticket is hardly going to cover your costs of booking a new flight. And that's assuming DR is paid out without difficulty.

 

[Bald Rick]

It’s not showing in the timetable now, as expected.

 

[scrapy]

Looking at all times for Piccadilly it seems Hale, Edale, Nantwich, Lancaster and Stafford are the first stations on their respective lines where the first arrival is currently after 8am.

I would be very surprised if there are not doctors from the Manchester area hospitals based in the likes of Hale, Alderley Edge, Wilmslow, Knutsford, Chelford etc. but probably the NHS professionals living that far out are the ones who won't be reliant on the train. The exception being temporary instances like when their car's in for servicing or due to them taking medication which might prevent them from driving.

I've looked for tomorrow and all the stations you mention do have arrivals into Manchester before 8am many before 7am. (Nantwich requires change at Crewe) except for Hale and Knusford so I'm not sure where you are getting your times from. Hale station is a 14 minute walk from Altrincham metrolink station (according to Google maps) so there is an alternative there, so there is only really Knutsford from that list that doesn't have a pre 8am arrival.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Thanks for the replies.

The flights are also "all over the place" currently, so the early start might not be required as it stands, but this may change tomorrow!

 

[185]

The bit about crew not getting in taxis is absolute rubbish.

In fairness, his taxi excuse was better than his previous letter sent in November which claimed

- trains are more difficult to run in late evenings and night due to engineering works (?!?)

- social distancing will be impossible on replacement buses (err, that implies people are travelling)

- the operator does not have to provide a replacement bus

 

[Crossover]

I was talking about services TO Manchester i.e. ones which people working in Manchester can use. The earliest which I can find is the 08:23 arrival from Birmingham New Street.

05:57 from New St via Stafford arrives at Piccadilly at around 07:30

 

[LowLevel]

Looking at all times for Piccadilly it seems Hale, Edale, Nantwich, Lancaster and Stafford are the first stations on their respective lines where the first arrival is currently after 8am.

I would be very surprised if there are not doctors from the Manchester area hospitals based in the likes of Hale, Alderley Edge, Wilmslow, Knutsford, Chelford etc. but probably the NHS professionals living that far out are the ones who won't be reliant on the train. The exception being temporary instances like when their car's in for servicing or due to them taking medication which might prevent them from driving.

The first down train from Edale (and the other Hope Valley stations) has been operated by EMR (and formerly EMT and before that Central Trains) for decades. It arrives into Manchester shortly after 0730 having left Nottingham at around 0500-0520 depending on which route it is taking that week. It is because Northern is effectively 2 companies and the Hope Valley is operated by the West side train crew at Manchester Piccadilly, the East side crews at Sheffield don't go to Manchester.

In any case Grindleford to Edale stations inclusive passengers on that train have been down to single figures since lockdown - they're mainly white collar workers travelling to Manchester in normal times who will have been home working.

 

[Grumpy Git]

Schedule looks like Manchester Airport is not going to be an option due to the hassle of a two-legged flight to Italy via Amsterdam and all the additional Covid testing the Dutch government insist upon, despite me only transiting at Schipol.

So that being the case, it means the alternative is a direct flight from Gatwick on Sunday afternoon 21st March departing approx. 14:30.

First train from Liverpool Lime St. to Euston on Sunday 21st March arrives at 11:04, does anyone think this is too tight to catch a 14:30 flight departing from Gatwick after a Tube ride to Victoria and 38 minute train to Gatwick airport?

I'm estimating I can get to Victoria in plenty of time for the 11:45 departure to Gatwick (assuming Avanti WC is on time), so that would mean I arrive at the airport almost 2 hours in advance, but have no idea if Avanti West Coast services are subject to any delays on Sundays!

As usual, all advice is welcomed, thanks.

 

[55002]

Schedule looks like Manchester Airport is not going to be an option due to the hassle of a two-legged flight to Italy via Amsterdam and all the additional Covid testing the Dutch government insist upon, despite me only transiting at Schipol.

So that being the case, it means the alternative is a direct flight from Gatwick on Sunday afternoon 21st March departing approx. 14:30.

First train from Liverpool Lime St. to Euston on Sunday 21st March arrives at 11:04, does anyone think this is too tight to catch a 14:30 flight departing from Gatwick after a Tube ride to Victoria and 38 minute train to Gatwick airport?

I'm estimating I can get to Victoria in plenty of time for the 11:45 departure to Gatwick (assuming Avanti WC is on time), so that would mean I arrive at the airport almost 2 hours in advance, but have no idea if Avanti West Coast services are subject to any delays on Sundays!

As usual, all advice is welcomed, thanks.

No that should be enough time assuming on time arrival at Euston

 

[Bald Rick]

Yes plenty of time, indeed its possible you will be up to 10 minutes early; even if on time you should make the 1132 or 1135 off Vic.

Be aware that there are some short notice engineering works happening on the WCML in the last two weeks of March. However, the good news for you is that the work involves one pair of lines being closed (different sections for each of the two weeks), and as the Sunday morning timetable is already designed around one pair of lines being closed, your journey should not be affected. But don’t be spooked if you see engineering works advertised.

 

[Watershed]

Schedule looks like Manchester Airport is not going to be an option due to the hassle of a two-legged flight to Italy via Amsterdam and all the additional Covid testing the Dutch government insist upon, despite me only transiting at Schipol.

So that being the case, it means the alternative is a direct flight from Gatwick on Sunday afternoon 21st March departing approx. 14:30.

First train from Liverpool Lime St. to Euston on Sunday 21st March arrives at 11:04, does anyone think this is too tight to catch a 14:30 flight departing from Gatwick after a Tube ride to Victoria and 38 minute train to Gatwick airport?

I'm estimating I can get to Victoria in plenty of time for the 11:45 departure to Gatwick (assuming Avanti WC is on time), so that would mean I arrive at the airport almost 2 hours in advance, but have no idea if Avanti West Coast services are subject to any delays on Sundays!

As usual, all advice is welcomed, thanks.

Based on the currently published timetable, the first official connection off the 11:04 arrival at Euston is the 11:45 Ore service from Victoria, which gets you into Gatwick Airport at 12:21, more than 2 hours before your flight - safe in my book.

 

[Glenn1969]

Even with the current extra security because of Covid?

 

[221129]

Even with the current extra security because of Covid?

What extra security?

 

[Glenn1969]

Testing, screening and the fact that you have to show a form to prove your trip is essential