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19th July Lockdown Easing - Observations and Compliance

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ExRes

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Afternoon visit to Wickes had mask wearers at 0 (staff) 0 (humans) 0 (builders)

BP/M&S petrol station had red/green lights still in operation and not a single soul without a mask
 

greyman42

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This morning, Central Line to Oxford Circus, Victoria Line to King's Cross St Pancras, 100% mask wearing on both trains in the carriage I was in (approx 20-25 people in both carriage)
I find that very surprising considering that we were not even getting 100% compliance before July 19. All the underground trains that i have been on since July 19 have been no where near 100% compliance.
 

Huntergreed

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I find that very surprising considering that we were not even getting 100% compliance before July 19. All the underground trains that i have been on since July 19 have been no where near 100% compliance.
I’ve had 100% compliance a few times on my tube travels in the past 2 days.

Given the mandation, I imagine there’s still a little fear about not wearing one. I’ve decided to (even though I’m very strongly against mask mandation) just so I don’t get in trouble as I’ve seen plenty of “face covering enforcement officers” out and about.
 

Silver Cobra

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So, I undertook my first journey with LNER since the pandemic began this past Saturday, travelling from Stevenage to Leeds in the morning and returning mid-afternoon. The outbound journey, which was on a 5-car Azuma, the coach I was in was around 70% full, and around 75-80% of the passengers were wearing masks (I chose not to wear a mask myself). As for the return journey, which was a 10-car Azuma formation, the coach I was in never exceeded about 35% loading, and only around 40-50% of the passengers were wearing masks. During both journeys, a ticket check did take place, and in both cases the train managers seemed perfectly happy with those of us who chose not to wear masks (they themselves did wear masks). No mentions of masks, even just as requests to wear them, were made during any announcements made by either of the train managers during these journeys. The only thing that was emphasized during announcements on my outbound journey was the need to sit in our reserved seats, but with this having been a 5-car Azuma, I guess it makes sense due to the limited seating available.

All in all, I have to say that both of my journeys were fairly pleasant experiences. I'm going to be travelling again with LNER on 7th August, so hoping my upcoming journeys will much the same experience.
 

96tommy

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I find that very surprising considering that we were not even getting 100% compliance before July 19. All the underground trains that i have been on since July 19 have been no where near 100% compliance.
Return was 100% as well (Victoria Line to Oxford Circus and Central to Notting Hill Gate). First time I've seen 100% and twice in one day. Just a coincidence I believe
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I'm due a visit to Morrisons soon; last week it was maybe 75% wearing masks and 25% not, so I hope to see more normality next time.

Most people are only wearing them because they think the majority will be, or they see the majority wearing them.

My local leisure centre says "Masks are optional" and hardly anyone wears them, which is great to see. Some of the masks wear visors, none wear masks. Even when masks were supposedly mandatory, the staff almost exclusively wore visors.

All the recent restaurants/pubs I visited recently seemed normal with almost 100% of customers not wearing masks. Last Thursday York station had just over 50% of people wearing masks around 5pm, but by 9pm the vast majority were not. And on Saturday night around 11pm there were huge crowds for the last trains from York and I don't think a single person was wearing a mask. A policewoman said that it had been a busy day but everyone was "behaving themselves". It was really great to see such big crowds not wearing masks again.

The LNER train home was great; no-one in my coach was wearing a mask. Much better than the train to London which was a real disappointment, with most people wearing masks.
Why do you find mask-wearing so disappointing out of interest? It shows selflessness, whether some people think they work or not. I know you're very much against people enforcing them, and rightfully so, because it's a personal choice - but therefore why be against people choosing the other option? Especially when this option is the one done out of thoughtfulness to others.
 

Busaholic

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I can't see any courtesy in pandering to irrational fears; in fact as I see it as further entrenching those fears so in fact damaging.
There was no mention of fearfulness, or even deep concern. A slight worry after a long period of non-travel might, on the contrary, be both entirely rational and not unexpected.
 

VauxhallandI

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There was no mention of fearfulness, or even deep concern. A slight worry after a long period of non-travel might, on the contrary, be both entirely rational and not unexpected.
If they are not fearful then why are they wearing a mask? Its completely irrelevant whether or not it is to be expected or not; its not rational if you look at the statistics which is entirely why it is pandering.

Why do you find mask-wearing so disappointing out of interest? It shows selflessness, whether some people think they work or not. I know you're very much against people enforcing them, and rightfully so, because it's a personal choice - but therefore why be against people choosing the other option? Especially when this option is the one done out of thoughtfulness to others.
It doesn't show selflessness it shows you are willing to play a part in continuing something pointless and damaging to many. So in fact it shows an element of weakness of conviction to reality.

Avatars with masks on are the worst symbol of virtue signalling we see.
 

route101

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WH Smith Glasgow Central, one way system has gone.

Marks and Spencer Simply Food still has a a one way system and someone always mopping the floor!
 

westv

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Not sure if this is the right thread but I am bored of people posting on the LNER twitter feed pics of themselves wearing masks and telling us all how good they are.
 

LAX54

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In Town today, HSBC and Barclays had people waiting outside, and being let in one by one, and no more than 3 inside, I counted 18 waiting outside Barclays !
 

VauxhallandI

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In Town today, HSBC and Barclays had people waiting outside, and being let in one by one, and no more than 3 inside, I counted 18 waiting outside Barclays !
I wonder what is so special about the four walls of a Bank
 

yorkie

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Why do you find mask-wearing so disappointing out of interest?
Because it's not normal. It's a sign of authoritarianism and support for, or fear of, the authoritarian regime.

It shows selflessness
It doesn't. People generally wear masks for, broadly speaking, two potential reasons:
1) Because they think they are effective and don't trust the vaccines;
2) Not because they want to, but because they think others are likely to be wearing a mask and don't want to stand out.

Clearly most people are in category 2 and have no desire to wear one but feel pressured into doing so. That was me, and to comply with the law, until 19th July.

, whether some people think they work or not.
This makes sense. If people think they don't work work, how is it "showing selflessness"?

Selflessness is "concern more with the needs and wishes of others than with one's own" but supporting mask wearing shows absolutely no concern for people with hearing difficulties. By not wearing one, I am supporting a return to normal life for millions of people with hearing difficulties; I am also acting in solidarity with people who have been terribly mistreated for having medical conditions, anxieties and hidden disabilities exempting them from wearing masks. We owe it to such people to have a more normal society where they are not made to stand out like sore thumbs.

I know you're very much against people enforcing them, and rightfully so, because it's a personal choice - but therefore why be against people choosing the other option?
I am not against people being able to choose. For example my local leisure centre has a sign stating "face masks are optional" which is absolutely spot on. I am against the messaging of the likes of LNER, which is appalling. I do support the right for each person to make their own choice but I do NOT support claims such as "wearing one shows compassion/consideration/selflessness"; that is nonsense and is not giving people the choice.

The high levels of mask wearing in a small number of settings shows that people are being pressured in those settings, and that is a reminder of the authoritarian regime.

Especially when this option is the one done out of thoughtfulness to others.
It really isn't; see above. When are people who are pro-mask going to start being thoughtful towards deaf people? Weeks? Months? Years?!

If they are not fearful then why are they wearing a mask? Its completely irrelevant whether or not it is to be expected or not; its not rational if you look at the statistics which is entirely why it is pandering.
Because people feel under pressure; people don't want to be the only ones not doing it.

It doesn't show selflessness it shows you are willing to play a part in continuing something pointless and damaging to many. So in fact it shows an element of weakness of conviction to reality.
I completely agree

Avatars with masks on are the worst symbol of virtue signalling we see.
Indeed; some people even delight in taking photos of themselves in empty train carriages and publishing the images.

Not sure if this is the right thread but I am bored of people posting on the LNER twitter feed pics of themselves wearing masks and telling us all how good they are.
Yes this is the height of virtue signalling.

Pro-maskers have effectively become a cult here, as in the USA. This makes me want to push back even more. The more they snarl at us, the more they pressure us, the more determined I am not to give in, and get our normality back.

In Town today, HSBC and Barclays had people waiting outside, and being let in one by one, and no more than 3 inside, I counted 18 waiting outside Barclays !
Madness.

I saw a few people outside shops wearing masks outdoors today, which was disappointing to see. I went to Thomas the Baker, where the staff were wearing visors (not masks) and although nothing was said to me, I did notice a sign asking people to wear a mask for "consideration of others" which means I no longer feel comfortable in that shop and will be avoiding them for the foreseeable future (I'll give them a chance in a few weeks time and see if they have removed it then).

Our cleaners generally wore masks on their chins until someone approached, but now they are not wearing masks which is good to see. We have various contractors in and I am pleased to say none of them are wearing masks.

Everything seems normal except shops & public transport; I refuse to believe that people are wearing masks in those settings exclusively, out of personal choice. People who make that claim are deluded.

I am going to visit Morrisons this evening so I will see what that's like; I am hoping it will be a lot more normal and less dystopian. I'll probably edit this post with my update on my return. If we're down to around 50% wearing masks I'll see that as a huge victory. Fingers crossed...
 

jumble

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Return was 100% as well (Victoria Line to Oxford Circus and Central to Notting Hill Gate). First time I've seen 100% and twice in one day. Just a coincidence I believe
Today on Met and Jubilee very high compliance and no difference to before 19 July
 

island

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It doesn't. People generally wear masks for, broadly speaking, two potential reasons:
1) Because they think they are effective and don't trust the vaccines;
2) Not because they want to, but because they think others are likely to be wearing a mask and don't want to stand out.

Clearly most people are in category 2 and have no desire to wear one but feel pressured into doing so. That was me, and to comply with the law, until 19th July.
I’d add a third, which you alluded to later:
Yes this is the height of virtue signalling.

Pro-maskers have effectively become a cult here, as in the USA. This makes me want to push back even more. The more they snarl at us, the more they pressure us, the more determined I am not to give in, and get our normality back.
3) Because they want others to see them doing something generally perceived as “the right thing” Or “showing consideration”.
 

Bertie the bus

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There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.

It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.
 

yorkie

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There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.
There really is an unpleasant undercurrent in society where people who are being normal are portrayed as bad or uncaring people.

Until this undercurrent is quashed, I'm not going to cave into them, and I am going to stand up for what I believe is right. The more they try to push their agenda, the more I will push back.

It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.
It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as being "inconsiderate" of others, just for acting normally (!), are the same people who have been happy to discriminate against people throughout this pandemic, for a wide variety of reasons.

Bizarrely nearly all those people did not start wearing masks until many months into the pandemic, and yet now claim to have the moral high ground for doing so, for no justifiable or logical reason.
 

bramling

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There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.

It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.

Should this really be surprising, when we’ve had a year and a half of people who can’t or don’t want to wear masks being singled out and labelled as some pretty disgusting things? All for a measure which seems to be as effective as a chocolate fire guard.

Virtue signalling and comfort blankets to give an illusion of controlling the impossible aren’t really a sound basis for good decision making. It seems quite clear the main rationale for mask mandation was part of the bungled “back to work / travel with confidence” push last summer, when they thought people were going to be too terrified to set foot on a train or in a shop.
 

Bantamzen

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Someone I know seems to be putting themselves up for the virtue signaller's equivalent of the Nobel Peace Prize. Almost everyday they have posted a picture of themselves on social media wearing a mask in their car or on the bus (sometimes even at home), whilst wearing a sunflower lanyard....!!

However the judges may take a slightly negative view of their constant moaning about being skint despite having bought (literally) hundreds of masks, and also complaining that sports and other large events shouldn't take place so that they can go to their favourite comic and games conferences.
 

Failed Unit

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I have generally noticed a lot lower compliance, (even on LNER) - I think more people will stop wearing them when they realize that they won't be struck by lightning (or when they need to buy another pack). But I am much happier that I can go about my business without having anyone challenge me now. You still get the "they can't all be exempt", which I normally reply "why not?" rarely getting an answer.

One thing I have noticed on small business is the "ping-demic". I lot of the people in these business are not actually scared of Covid itself, but more fearful of their business getting shut down for 10 days. The are clinging onto the mask as "It isn't doing any harm and might help". I can have a bit of sympathy with these and see what happens when the rules change in August. But as it stands if person A gets it, then person B & C needs to isolate, when you only have 3 members of staff you are out of business for 10 days, even if person A got it from something totally unrelated to the shop. I think they know in their hearts the mask makes no difference, but they are caught in the flock of sheep. One person I know who is self employed but visits people is mega paranoid. But I again I think this is more they can't work for 10 days if they get it and they have lost income as a result (and clients if they do elsewhere). Be interesting to see if mid-August will see another drop in people wearing masks.
 

VauxhallandI

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I have generally noticed a lot lower compliance, (even on LNER) - I think more people will stop wearing them when they realize that they won't be struck by lightning (or when they need to buy another pack). But I am much happier that I can go about my business without having anyone challenge me now. You still get the "they can't all be exempt", which I normally reply "why not?" rarely getting an answer.

One thing I have noticed on small business is the "ping-demic". I lot of the people in these business are not actually scared of Covid itself, but more fearful of their business getting shut down for 10 days. The are clinging onto the mask as "It isn't doing any harm and might help". I can have a bit of sympathy with these and see what happens when the rules change in August. But as it stands if person A gets it, then person B & C needs to isolate, when you only have 3 members of staff you are out of business for 10 days, even if person A got it from something totally unrelated to the shop. I think they know in their hearts the mask makes no difference, but they are caught in the flock of sheep. One person I know who is self employed but visits people is mega paranoid. But I again I think this is more they can't work for 10 days if they get it and they have lost income as a result (and clients if they do elsewhere). Be interesting to see if mid-August will see another drop in people wearing masks.
One could argue they've failed the test twice then; firstly with masks then by using the app.

They could solve all their problems in ten seconds.
 

Busaholic

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If they are not fearful then why are they wearing a mask? Its completely irrelevant whether or not it is to be expected or not; its not rational if you look at the statistics which is entirely why it is pandering.
I look left and right before crossing the road. Does that make me fearful? No, it does not, it just shows I'm being cautious and thus entirely rational. Indeed, to not do so would be to throw caution to the wind and be absolutely irrational, as no doubt the coroner would conclude at my inquest. Fearful = full of fear, which nobody has any right to conclude about a complete stranger minding their own business and showing no obvious sign of it.
 

VauxhallandI

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I look left and right before crossing the road. Does that make me fearful? No, it does not, it just shows I'm being cautious and thus entirely rational. Indeed, to not do so would be to throw caution to the wind and be absolutely irrational, as no doubt the coroner would conclude at my inquest. Fearful = full of fear, which nobody has any right to conclude about a complete stranger minding their own business and showing no obvious sign of it.
A terrbile analogy. If you get hit by a car you my well die or be seriously injured; if you get covid you have a 99.8% chance of survival and higher for certain people. Oh and looking left and right is a pretty dam good risk mitigation activity; a mask is not.

Its more like looking cross a busy two mile straight. Stood at the half way point and waiting until there are no cars on the two mile stretch. That is also a terrible analogy.
 

35B

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There really is an unpleasant undercurrent on this forum where people doing what they feel is the right thing is portrayed as bad or ridiculed.

It is also apparent that several who criticise people who they perceive as having an irrational fear of a virus and describe showing them some consideration as pandering are the same people who think having a fear of a mask is perfectly normal and not showing them consideration is discrimination.
There really is an unpleasant undercurrent in society where people who are being normal are portrayed as bad or uncaring people.

Until this undercurrent is quashed, I'm not going to cave into them, and I am going to stand up for what I believe is right. The more they try to push their agenda, the more I will push back.
Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.

But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.
 

VauxhallandI

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Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.

But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.
Your Glyndebourne analogy is terrible as well - Do we have to go to there to travel or get food etc?
 

HST274

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At my local sainsburys all wearing masks. Someone I know went to London and said 50/50 on the Underground. I wear one myself because I am going on holiday soon and do believe it helps in some way.
 

farleigh

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Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.

But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.
Crushing the opposition??

Who's that
 

Failed Unit

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Two wrongs do not make a right. Since the 19th, I wear a mask when out where someone asks me to in a reasonable manner, out of consideration to them or those they are asking on behalf of. It is in the same vein that, if at Glyndebourne (I wish!), I'd wear black tie - not because I consider it a necessity, but because it is a request. To date, I've not personally encountered a peremptory demand for one; I'll judge that as I find it.

But I share the view of @Busaholic that there are some for whom this is a matter of confrontation, who seem to wish to crush the opposition to their chosen response rather than acknowledge and engage with it. I'd even go so far as to call it an authoritarian response.
I still feel awkward in that following conversation,
"Could you wear a mask please"
"No"
"Why not"
"none of your business"

No of course I could say
"No - I am medically exempt" but that is non of the persons business who is asking so why should the put me in they awkward position because of their problems? In fact if they are that bothered why approach me at all? I do tend to select the seat that is furthest away from other passengers on a train and I am not right up peoples butts in shops (Which some people with masks are)

But would anyone ever say to someone using a disabled space
"Are you entitled to use this?"

I think asking someone to wear a mask is actually disrespectful to the person they are asking. They should assume that they are not wearing one for a good reason. But it seems acceptable for people to challenge others about why they are not wearing a mask when it is actually non of their business no matter how respectfully it is done. They don't challenge other disabilities in the same way (or do they?).

BTW - I don't consider myself disabled in any way - but fortunately the DDA2010 does cover my position.
 

YorkshireBear

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Another covid thread that seems hell bent on descending with same posters arguing (quite aggressively) about masks.

No one has made a new point. Can't we leave it to the thread specifically set up?
 
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