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19th July Lockdown Easing - Observations and Compliance

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Merseysider

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BTP PSCO on Thameslink telling people they need to mask up as it's getting busy under Section 6.8 of the National Rail bylaws
Not what the Byelaws were intended for, at all. Not convinced that’d be a legitimate interpretation, either.
 
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D6130

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Ridiculous! As with the likes of First Bus in Bristol and I expect a number of other transport operators, they're either not aware that face masks restrictions have now been scrapped, or they're just very lazy at removing all these pre-recorded PA announcements, signage, etc from their trains and stations.
....or maybe they're hedging their bets and hoping to avoid unnecessary expense when the next lockdown starts in a few weeks' time? ;)
 

Silver Cobra

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As someone who works in retail, today is the first day since the start of September where I have worked an entire shift without wearing a face mask/covering. It was actually quite a surreal experience, to be honest. I guess after spending the best part of a year having to put one on for between 4 and 9 hours every day at work, that's somewhat understandable. I'll admit that I did keep a mask in my pocket for most of my shift in case the shop got too busy for me to feel comfortable not wearing a mask, but it never got to that point throughout the day. None of the customers I interacted with seemed to be too concerned about the fact I didn't have a mask on. Out of respect to them, I did my best to maintain a reasonable distance from them.

With regards to my observations of compliance during my day at work, both on the train to and from work and within the shop itself, I would estimate around 70-80% of people were still wearing masks. Not too surprising since this is only the first day of the mandate being revoked, so I expect a gradual shift towards something like 50-50 within the next week or so. Most of my colleagues are continuing to wear masks, which is fair enough.
 

Bishopstone

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Spot on. It's about respecting each others positions.

Saying you are disappointed about people wearing masks is as bad as those filling messages like 'I wear a mask because I care' type stuff.

Agreed. We’ve heard a lot about freedom and personal choice over the last year. It would be quite startling if those who made that case now pitch-up expressing disapproval about others choices, suggesting they should conform.

At a reduced level, voluntary mask wearing is going to be a feature of urban transport systems (particularly) for the foreseeable future, so everyone will need to reconcile themselves to this sight.
 

Class 33

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That's not what you said above. You said it was "very disappointing" and I was just curious what you were so disappointed about considering its a user's choice to wear it? If I chose to wear one should I be "very disappointed" in all those who don't?



It's the first day - I'd expect it to be a little bit of time until all the systems get turned off & updated and every single poster and bit of tape is removed.

The reason it was disappointing was because I was expecting a lot less mask wearers today, now that these ridiculous restrictions have finally been scrapped. And also because I am concerned that if face mask wearing in shops, public transport, etc remains very high that may mean the government may think "Well it looks like the vast majority of people want to keep wearing face masks".... and then they go and decide to reimpose mandatory face mask wearing on public transport, and in shops, etc. Would absolutely hate for that to happen, after 12/13 months of having to put up with this nonsense. Personal choice though is fine with me. Mandatory face mask wearing though is absolutely not fine with me.

Though update to my earlier post. Just been down to the shops and I passed a few buses on the main road. I looked into them and I'd say mask wearing in those few buses was about 50%. So a further reduction again from my observations earlier this evening and this morning. From about 75% to about 60% to about 50%. Encouraging signs for tomorrow and the rest of the week.
 

Tramfan

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I visited a Sainsburys local in a heavily student populated area of Newcastle today, and of the 7 or 8 of us in the shop, no-one was wearing a mask.

Visiting a larger Asda store a couple of miles away later in the day, I would estimate around 70% were wearing masks, so I guess we should expect figures to vary even between relatively small areas.
 

NorthOxonian

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I visited a Sainsburys local in a heavily student populated area of Newcastle today, and of the 7 or 8 of us in the shop, no-one was wearing a mask.

Visiting a larger Asda store a couple of miles away later in the day, I would estimate around 70% were wearing masks, so I guess we should expect figures to vary even between relatively small areas.
Mask wearing among students in Newcastle is certainly very low - I got the Metro from South Gosforth through Jesmond and even on there (where they remain mandatory) most of the students getting on at the Jesmond stops weren't wearing them.

I did notice fewer people wearing them in general in the afternoon though - even in more suburban areas. Whether this is down to temperature or gradual decrease in usage is impossible to tell.
 
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I'm a student and lots of people I personally know tend to be virtue signalling on social media trying to convince others to wear masks, mask wearing is much higher amongst the young. They're also more likely to not be open to controversial opinions such as some of mine so I don't tend to bring up COVID when I am around them.
 

Tramfan

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Mask wearing among students in Newcastle is certainly very low - I got the Metro from South Gosforth through Jesmond and even on there (where they remain mandatory) most of the students getting on at the Jesmond stops weren't wearing them.

I did notice fewer people wearing them in general in the afternoon though - even in more suburban areas. Whether this is down to temperature or gradual decrease in usage is impossible to tell.
I'm not sure what to expect with Metro compliance, with the numbers of trains being cancelled due to drivers self-isolating, I'm expecting that people will continue to wear them if they're on a busier train.
 

MikeWM

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Usual Monday trip to Sainsburys and Tescos in Ely tonight - apart from signage changes, you'd struggle to see much difference from last month or indeed 6 months ago.

All staff still in masks. Every customer in Sainsburys (bar me...) still in masks. Tesco had a few faces, so probably 85 or 90% in masks.

Can't say I'm surprised - pretty much as expected for around here. Has been very very compliant throughout.
 

bramling

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I'm not sure what to expect with Metro compliance, with the numbers of trains being cancelled due to drivers self-isolating, I'm expecting that people will continue to wear them if they're on a busier train.

Mask use on the Metro has already been patchy, from my experience over the last couple of weeks (I haven’t been on a peak-time service though). I’d imagine it will tail off more over coming days.

I suspect there’s people who regard it as a death trap, but such people presumably won’t be on there.

The front seats still seem to be out or use as of today.
 

Horizon22

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The reason it was disappointing was because I was expecting a lot less mask wearers today, now that these ridiculous restrictions have finally been scrapped.

Yes they have but many people will chose to wear them. I just don't understand how you can see that as disappointing if people are making a choice and deciding "yes I will wear a mask". It shouldn't affect you in the slightest.

Personal choice though is fine with me. Mandatory face mask wearing though is absolutely not fine with me.

This is exactly what the current rules are, so again I find your disappointment a little baffling.
 

abn444

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Went into Tesco express earlier today and most were wearing masks other than me. Rather disappointingly the sign at the front hadn't been updated and still had an (albeit slightly faded) "no mask, no entry" sign
 

yorksrob

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Went in the small Sainsburys for a loaf of bread, mask wearing (I nearly said compliance, but there's nothing to "comply" with) was about 50/50 (staff and customers).
 

Mojo

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Chiltern Railways on board announcements still saying that you must wear a face covering over nose and mouth “fines and exemptions apply,” and “keep your distance” signage still present on board. At Marylebone the stupid one way system still in force and was still being ignored by most customers who took the most direct route to the Bakerloo line. The digital screen at Marylebone also said that you MUST (in capital letters) wear a face covering.
 

seagull

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We should remember too that many of the population don't actually "make a choice" about almost anything, they just follow what they perceive to be the norm. So changes will be gradual and often led by who is loudest on social media and TV.
 

ABB125

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Far more people were NOT wearing masks on the Underground this evening (approaching 2300) compared with 0830 this morning, though still over 50% were wearing masks. Admittedly it was rather warm down there, which may have influenced things a bit.
Most people in the McDonald's outside Liverpool Street station were NOT wearing masks.
Throughout today yesterday, most people on the trains I've been on (in East Anglia) HAVE been wearing masks. But no-one, as far as I can see, is wearing a mask in the seated coach of the Night Riviera sleeper.

I'll report what I see in Cornwall tomorrow today.

(Apologies if this doesn't make any sense; I've been awake for over 20 hours so may not be at peak mental capacity right now!)
 
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yorkie

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Just a gentle reminder to stick to observations in this thread please :)
.... some of us have been strongly advised to take even further restrictions than the general population for the previous 18 months. ..
If you carry out a search for FFP3 on this forum and you will find posts on what you can do if you feel you need to take extra precautions; it's under discussion in other threads.

...Some of us have no idea how well the vaccines have worked for us due to compromised immune systems....
Actually we do have the results of a study now; check out the vaccine updates thread.

BTP PSCO on Thameslink telling people they need to mask up as it's getting busy under Section 6.8 of the National Rail bylaws
I hope you make a complaint to BTP as well as contacting GTR to let them know what was happening on their service.
 
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Mainline421

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Not what I expected on this thread after my own observations. Pleasently surprised to see at most 10% of passengers and 0/7 staff wearing them on train to London this evening, announcement was made when arriving that for passengers connecting on to the Underground they'll be required on there but otherwise not mentioned. I connected to Paddington by tube and it appeared around 2/3 wearing them on there but all the Covid stickers have been removed. At Paddington new posters have been put up indicating they're required on TFL Rail, but at all stations very few seem to be wearing them.

Screenshot_20210720-013214.png
Away from the railway One Stop have taken down the huge "no mask, no entry [followed in tiny writing by] exemptions apply" and most shop staff weren't them everywhere today.
 

cactustwirly

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BTP PSCO on Thameslink telling people they need to mask up as it's getting busy under Section 6.8 of the National Rail bylaws

That PCSO clearly doesn't understand the law.
The phrasing "wilfully interfere" means that they need to prove a men's rea (intent).
Not wearing a facemasks doesn't mean that you're intentionally interfering with the comfort of other passengers
 

nlogax

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The reason it was disappointing was because I was expecting a lot less mask wearers today, now that these ridiculous restrictions have finally been scrapped.

Not everyone wants to drop masks or face coverings from their routines. Again, I would suggest this forum is not really representative of wider public opinion on the topic of masks. You may be disappointed but people exercising their personal choices on whether to wear them or not is all that matters.
 

Failed Unit

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Having a walk around today, lots of shops still haven't changed their signage (no drama's not exactly top priority). Other smaller shops have removed it altogether. The larger chains seem to be the ones that have changed the message to "recommended in crowded places".

The removal of one way systems is a big plus. In many places they were simply ignored as walking 3 sides around a square was pointless when you could clearly see no-one was anywhere near the direct route. But I feel a lot of people are glad to see the back of these.

Mask compliance today (considering it is hot already) is probably 1/3 correctly wearing, 1/3 incorrectly wearing and 1/3 not wearing. SO no real big change.
 

Jamiescott1

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Came through Stanstead Airport arrivals yesterday.
Bused from plane to terminal. 2 buses for 737 so both buses full.
Floor markings while queueing at uk border but no one abided by them
About 85% of people wearing masks.
 

Pit_buzzer

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Morrisons last night, all staff unmasked which was comforting and about a third of customers unmasked.
Iceland was similar, no masks on staff and maybe half of the customers unmasked including an off duty nhs nurse.
 

bramling

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Morrisons last night, all staff unmasked which was comforting and about a third of customers unmasked.
Iceland was similar, no masks on staff and maybe half of the customers unmasked including an off duty nhs nurse.

Had a morning journey on T&W Metro. Train was very empty despite being “morning peak”, about 5 in the car, 2 in masks.
 

duncanp

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I have no doubt that Nicola Sturgeon will try and make a fuss about this to suit her own political ends, but I don't think there is an easy answer.

Eg. On a train from Glasgow to London, you can have Scottish social distancing rules as far as Carlisle, and then everyone can pile on, with no social distancing and standing in the corridors.

But what happens in the reverse direction. If a train is full to the extent that when it arrives at Carlisle it complies with English regulations by not Scottish ones, what is Avanti West Coast supposed to do? Compulsory reservations North of Carlisle, as with LNER? What about people with flexible tickets.

The article goes on to mention that GWR will use Welsh rules on services that cross the border, which raises the prospect of people making journeys entirely within England having to observe rules laid down by the Welsh government.


Train companies defy Sturgeon and axe social distancing in Scotland​

LNER, Avanti and CrossCountry will allow passengers to sit next to each other on both sides of the border

Rail operators are embroiled in a row with Nicola Sturgeon's government after refusing to enforce social distancing rules for passengers travelling into Scotland.

LNER, Avanti and CrossCountry are allowing passengers to sit next to one another after Boris Johnson relaxed restrictions in England on Monday.

This decision will apply for trains which cross into Scotland - even though social distancing limits remain in place under the SNP.

The rule change was first highlighted by state-owned LNER, which operates trains along the east coast main line between London, Edinburgh, Glasgow and Aberdeen. It drew a furious response from Scottish ministers, who said it is "not acceptable" for LNER to "issue inaccurate advice".

But Avanti west coast main line services and CrossCountry Trains, whose services also straddle the border, told The Telegraph that they have made the same decision.

Passengers will be warned when the service is approaching the Scottish border and asked to put on face coverings, but will not be ordered to move seats.

Ms Sturgeon’s administration has opted for a more cautious approach on social distancing than England. Scotland moved to Level 0 coronavirus restrictions on Monday, meaning physical distancing limits will fall to one metre, but people will still be forced to wear facemasks in public.

On ScotRail and the Caledonian Sleeper, the two other companies which pass through both countries, full Scottish restrictions will be in force.

It was initially thought that Transport Scotland had tacitly agreed to the LNER move.

However, a spokesman for the Scottish government said: “The law is clear that social distancing is required on public transport, including on cross border services. Anyone operating a business or providing a service in a level 0 area is required to take measures, so far as is reasonably practicable, to ensure 1m physical distance is maintained.

“This issue was flagged with LNER in advance of changes to restrictions in England and Scotland coming into force on Jul 19. Transport Scotland officials received assurance from LNER on Friday that their messages to customers would be changed to reflect and respect Scottish Government law and guidance. It is not acceptable that LNER has continued to issue inaccurate advice.

“We are now discussing this issue again with LNER as a matter of urgency to ensure an approach consistent with Scottish restrictions.”

The decision by LNER in particular angered some Scots. The rail firm was nationalised in 2018 after running up £200m in losses as Virgin East Coast, and is now wholly-owned by Boris Johnson's government. The company said it is choosing the English rules “for consistency”.

An LNER spokesperson said: “We are reviewing our approach to social distancing onboard our Anglo-Scot services. The safety of our customers and colleagues remains our top priority and we will provide an update in due course. We are continuing to provide an enhanced cleaning programme onboard our trains and at our stations as well as reminding customers to wear a face mask, unless exempt. We are also using our reservation system to prevent overcrowding and our website to continue to inform customers which are our least busy and busier services, to enable people to plan ahead and travel in confidence.”

A spokesman for CrossCountry said: “In England, social distancing restrictions are no longer in place on board our services, which is in line with government guidelines. Scotland still has a social distancing rule of 1m in place. However, there is acknowledgement that on some crowded services 1m physical distancing may prove difficult.

"We continue to have a range of measures in place including information about quieter services and enhanced cleaning regimes to ensure our customers have a comfortable travel experience. Face coverings also remain mandatory in Scotland for the time being and we make frequent announcements to inform our customers.”

Avanti declined to comment further.

Like Scotland, Wales has also opted for a different approach to England.

Great Western Railway will run on a Welsh social distancing rules on services to or from Welsh destinations. Passengers will be asked to put on facemasks as the train passes through the Severn tunnel.
 

Failed Unit

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I have no doubt that Nicola Sturgeon will try and make a fuss about this to suit her own political ends, but I don't think there is an easy answer.

Eg. On a train from Glasgow to London, you can have Scottish social distancing rules as far as Carlisle, and then everyone can pile on, with no social distancing and standing in the corridors.

But what happens in the reverse direction. If a train is full to the extent that when it arrives at Carlisle it complies with English regulations by not Scottish ones, what is Avanti West Coast supposed to do? Compulsory reservations North of Carlisle, as with LNER? What about people with flexible tickets.

The article goes on to mention that GWR will use Welsh rules on services that cross the border, which raises the prospect of people making journeys entirely within England having to observe rules laid down by the Welsh government.

Someone needs to ask St Nicola a few questions.

  • Why is it OK to fly into Scotland without any form of social distancing? You can sit next to a total stranger, you are in a situation with a higher number of people per square meter
  • It is guidance not mandatory on Scotrail, why is it OK for a Scotrail service to turn up at station x and continue to pick up passengers (to the point it is standing) but not an Inter-City service.
  • If say the 1000 Edinburgh - London is cancelled is per preference that passengers should wait until they have socially distanced space on the next service (which could be late in the evening as most of the following services will probably already be reserved)
I have no problem with LNER only reserving window seats for journeys that go into Scotland as long as people understand that between Newcastle and London the train could be full (As they seem to accept with air travel). But I suspect even the most hardened SNP supporter would rather get from A-B on a "full" train rather than wait hours for an empty one just like they do in Scotland.

The key is here, they are making a big deal about it

However, a spokesman for the Scottish government said: “The law is clear that social distancing is required on public transport, including on cross border services. Anyone operating a business or providing a service in a level 0 area is required to take measures, so far as is reasonably practicable, to ensure 1m physical distance is maintained.

The operators should robustly go back and say they are operating the same way as Scotrail. (They could also highlight the reason their services are so busy on Sunday and ask them if they want to stop operating on Sunday ;) )
 
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