22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

[nlogax]

Better video here, I'd done the same if I were him.

This particular landlord - he's one of two running that pub - came across as a beacon of impotent rage and fired up because he was in a Situation with a politician while all the cameras were trained on him and his premises. Someone you'd expect to find yelling from halfway back in any pre-pandemic edition of Question Time. I don't think he did himself or the cause to end restrictions any favours at all.

 

[kristiang85]

This particular landlord - he's one of two running that pub - came across as a beacon of impotent rage and fired up because he was in a Situation with a politician while all the cameras were trained on him and his premises. Someone you'd expect to find yelling from halfway back in any pre-pandemic edition of Question Time. I don't think he did himself or the cause to end restrictions any favours at all.

I guess after a year of not being able to run his business properly and potentially trying to keep his family fed has made him quite angry.

Looking at comments online, the vast majority of people agree and/or sympathise with him.

 

[Mainline421]

This particular landlord - he's one of two running that pub - came across as a beacon of impotent rage and fired up because he was in a Situation with a politician while all the cameras were trained on him and his premises. Someone you'd expect to find yelling from halfway back in any pre-pandemic edition of Question Time. I don't think he did himself or the cause to end restrictions any favours at all.

Have to disagree if you watch the full video. If you played the audio from when he was been manhandled by Starmer's bodyguard on his own property out of context then maybe he could seem like this.

 

[Luke McDonnell]

What do you think of this guys response to the landlord he is basically calling out the landlord as a covid denier and obviously he pushing his view for political reasons going against the right wing press I don't really know to much about the man who owns the pub but do you think he is a covid denier?

He also says that he is not just a denier but has been putting out anti vax stuff aswell. This guy in the video linked is very angry that the landlord was putting out statements like 'you have screwed the economy because old people are dying'. I wonder what you think. It does sound like this you tuber is pro restriction for political reasons which annoys me as I do not vote Conservative or are a fan of the Conservatives but I do know that we only had 4 deaths recorded in the entire UK today and he is banging on about the 'Indian variant' remember 99% of the vulnerable have now been vaccinated.

 

[takno]

What do you think of this guys response to the landlord he is basically calling out the landlord as a covid denier and obviously he pushing his view for political reasons going against the right wing press I don't really know to much about the man who owns the pub but do you think he is a covid denier?

He also says that he is not just a denier but has been putting out anti vax stuff aswell. This guy in the video linked is very angry that the landlord was putting out statements like 'you have screwed the economy because old people are dying'. I wonder what you think. It does sound like this you tuber is pro restriction for political reasons which annoys me as I do not vote Conservative or are a fan of the Conservatives but I do know that we only had 4 deaths recorded in the entire UK today and he is banging on about the 'Indian variant' remember 99% of the vulnerable have now been vaccinated.

I think I'm not going to reward the poster by watching his video. I don't have a lot of time for people who think they're smart enough to do a YouTube video but refuse to accept that people they disagree are smart at all.

You can be completely opposed to any restrictions without being a Covid denier, and there are perfectly coherent moral positions that hold the lives of most of the people who have died as being fundamentally worth less than the devastation that has been caused to younger people. People who angrily dismiss that as Covid denialism usually do so because they lack an actual response to the very serious moral and practical questions being raised.

Personally I suspect that this landlord probably has some views which are a little extreme for my tastes, purely because the points he led on weren't well-thought-out, and have been widely spread in forums where more extreme opinions are often expressed.

I don't think anything he actually said was wrong though, and none of it was Covid denialism. We are simply being invited to believe he's a wrong-un because he disagrees with the blind unquestioning orthodoxy which Boris is pushing and Starmer is lapping up

 

[Cowley]

What do you think of this guys response to the landlord he is basically calling out the landlord as a covid denier and obviously he pushing his view for political reasons going against the right wing press I don't really know to much about the man who owns the pub but do you think he is a covid denier?

He also says that he is not just a denier but has been putting out anti vax stuff aswell. This guy in the video linked is very angry that the landlord was putting out statements like 'you have screwed the economy because old people are dying'. I wonder what you think. It does sound like this you tuber is pro restriction for political reasons which annoys me as I do not vote Conservative or are a fan of the Conservatives but I do know that we only had 4 deaths recorded in the entire UK today and he is banging on about the 'Indian variant' remember 99% of the vulnerable have now been vaccinated.

This has already been discussed upthread (from post #3079).

 

[Philip]

It was reported on the Jeremy Vine show that many pubs had people who had booked tables in advance on a 'just in case' basis not turning up and so compromising things for people who wanted to turn up and enjoy a drink/meal without pre-booking.

This is very selfish and poor behaviour, but it follows on from similar behaviour ranging from the stock piling to holding of illegal house parties. I am less concerned about our government's decisions and more so about this kind of thing. The war-time public spirit and commeradarie very much feels like the best part of a century ago!

 

[Yew]

The war-time public spirit and commeradarie very much feels like the best part of a century ago!

Camaraderie is difficult to have when the governments stops you from seeing your comrades.

As for wartime spirit, I struggle to see anything in the last 12 months that has posed an existential risk to the UK.

 

[bramling]

It was reported on the Jeremy Vine show that many pubs had people who had booked tables in advance on a 'just in case' basis not turning up and so compromising things for people who wanted to turn up and enjoy a drink/meal without pre-booking.

This is very selfish and poor behaviour, but it follows on from similar behaviour ranging from the stock piling to holding of illegal house parties. I am less concerned about our government's decisions and more so about this kind of thing. The war-time public spirit and commeradarie very much feels like the best part of a century ago!

Regarding no shows, we found this going on when we were in west Wales last October. On one occasion we couldn’t get in to the restaurant we wanted, despite the place being half empty. Then a couple of nights later we did get in, “you’re in luck, you’ve got the last table”, again with the place being half empty. Speaking to one of the staff, they were in despair over it, saying a good proportion of their bookings were no shows, and that it was really harming them but there wasn’t much they could do about it.

There is sadly a cohort of the population who have indeed treated this as one big rolling bank holiday. I feel sorry for people like business owners who have had all the weight of responsibility and worry on their shoulders.

 

[david1212]

It was reported on the Jeremy Vine show that many pubs had people who had booked tables in advance on a 'just in case' basis not turning up and so compromising things for people who wanted to turn up and enjoy a drink/meal without pre-booking.

Regarding no shows, we found this going on when we were in west Wales last October. On one occasion we couldn’t get in to the restaurant we wanted, despite the place being half empty. Then a couple of nights later we did get in, “you’re in luck, you’ve got the last table”, again with the place being half empty. Speaking to one of the staff, they were in despair over it, saying a good proportion of their bookings were no shows, and that it was really harming them but there wasn’t much they could do about it.

Depending on the establishment e.g. cafe or restaurant the logical approach is the booking is for a time window with gaps between for slight overruns and cleaning. At a cafe a drink & light meal would say be an hour, a restaurant say two hours. At pubs a maximum of a two hour slot.

Once 15mins late the booking is considered cancelled and the table free for walk-ups until the next booking.

For businesses new to this I've not looked but would hope there are freeware downloadable programs available.

 

[Bantamzen]

Depending on the establishment e.g. cafe or restaurant the logical approach is the booking is for a time window with gaps between for slight overruns and cleaning. At a cafe a drink & light meal would say be an hour, a restaurant say two hours. At pubs a maximum of a two hour slot.

Once 15mins late the booking is considered cancelled and the table free for walk-ups until the next booking.

For businesses new to this I've not looked but would hope there are freeware downloadable programs available.

A lot of businesses have set up websites with booking facilities. However, as demonstrated on Saturday when my wife and I booked a table at one of our local pubs that has reopened, even with this people won't cancel if they change their plans and people looking to book but seeing a fully reserved venue won't keep checking back, but will just try elsewhere. The pub we were at did have a policy that you could stay beyond your booked period if they were not full, or in the case of a no-shows but even so despite having a full book, rarely did spare capacity go below a quarter. Unfortunately this is what happens when an industry not used to limits like this has to set them up.

 

[birchesgreen]

This is very selfish and poor behaviour, but it follows on from similar behaviour ranging from the stock piling to holding of illegal house parties. I am less concerned about our government's decisions and more so about this kind of thing. The war-time public spirit and commeradarie very much feels like the best part of a century ago!

The "Blitz spirit" was largely a myth you know? Though society has got more selfish overall, but then again when you've got more to lose you can be more keen to keep it!

 

[yorksrob]

It was reported on the Jeremy Vine show that many pubs had people who had booked tables in advance on a 'just in case' basis not turning up and so compromising things for people who wanted to turn up and enjoy a drink/meal without pre-booking.

This is very selfish and poor behaviour, but it follows on from similar behaviour ranging from the stock piling to holding of illegal house parties. I am less concerned about our government's decisions and more so about this kind of thing. The war-time public spirit and commeradarie very much feels like the best part of a century ago!

It is bad behaviour from people.

If I were a landlord, I would have a policy of any booking becoming void after ten minutes of no-show (unless the party contacts to say it wil be late) whilst at the same time offering walk in trade on a first come first served basis.

Over the weekend I visited several pubs on a walk-in basis and feel it is important to retain this element of spontenaety.

 

[Jamiescott1]

I have 2 tables booked for the same day on 2nd May, one of which I will cancel.
I know it may be selfish but the televised football times haven't been announced for that weekend yet and I want to watch a certain game in the pub so have booked slots for the 2 time slots its likely to be shown in. As soon as its announced then I'll cancel the not needed time slot

 

[cuccir]

That's very different if you cancel though isn't it? I don't think that's unreasonable.

 

[kristiang85]

If I was a pub landlord right now I would charge £20 deposits on booking, and take it from the final tab. Fine it might put some people off, but it should put a stop to this selfish nonsense. It's becoming common practice in London restaurants to charge deposits now, and I wholeheartedly agree with it.

But I'm just looking forward to the day I can spontaneously walk into a pub again and all this nonsense is over.

 

[Eyersey468]

That's very different if you cancel though isn't it? I don't think that's unreasonable.

I agree, I don't consider it unreasonable if one of the bookings is cancelled in good time

 

[Jamiescott1]

If I was a pub landlord right now I would charge £20 deposits on booking, and take it from the final tab. Fine it might put some people off, but it should put a stop to this selfish nonsense. It's becoming common practice in London restaurants to charge deposits now, and I wholeheartedly agree with it.

But I'm just looking forward to the day I can spontaneously walk into a pub again and all this nonsense is over.

The pub i go to did that for the champions league final and the most recent world Cup

 

[87electric]

I have 2 tables booked for the same day on 2nd May, one of which I will cancel.
I know it may be selfish but the televised football times haven't been announced for that weekend yet and I want to watch a certain game in the pub so have booked slots for the 2 time slots its likely to be shown in. As soon as its announced then I'll cancel the not needed time slot

Why don’t you block book 6 more pubs just to make sure?

 

[35B]

That's very different if you cancel though isn't it? I don't think that's unreasonable.

It depends on when - that ultimately cancelled slot is unavailable for another would be customer to book, so may still deprive the business of the income. I'm with the businesses that are charging non-refundable deposits to secure bookings.

 

[LAX54]

I agree, I don't consider it unreasonable if one of the bookings is cancelled in good time

Does that not possibly stop someone who wants to go to a specific location for a 'special event' like anniversary etc, to be told sorry full, then book at another place they did not really want to go to, but book it just to secure at least somewhere ?

 

[Jamiescott1]

Why don’t you block book 6 more pubs just to make sure?

Thanks. Good idea

 

[kristiang85]

It depends on when - that ultimately cancelled slot is unavailable for another would be customer to book, so may still deprive the business of the income. I'm with the businesses that are charging non-refundable deposits to secure bookings.

If pubs advertise that they hold 25% space for walk ins still, that should still encourage people to try their luck and hopefully fill the space. It's difficult though, as for customers you have your own needs but of course pubs need to run a business. It's just problems all these silly restrictions are creating.

But agreed, as I said above I think the deposit idea is best, but refundable if you cancel no later than 4 hours before.

 

[Class 33]

Looking at the deaths figures for ENGLAND now. They really are absolutely miniscule now. Yesterday there were just TWO deaths. And the current daily average is just 21. Week on week the number of deaths is decreasing. By sometime during the first week of May, I'm fully expecting that to be down to just about into the single digits figures. With these sorts of stats, it really is absolutely ridiculous and bonkers that these nuisance hassly damaging social distancing and face mask wearing restrictions are still being kept for what is intended to be another 2 months. Just what an earth is the point now in these restrictions continuing any longer??!! I think it's certainly not being unreasonable nor unrealistic at the very least for both of the final stages of the roadmap easing of lockdown/restrictions to be brought forward by either two or one weeks each. Even if each of those stages were brought forward by one week, that would mean the 7th June for the lockdown to be completely eased and all restrictions scrapped. That would be some improvement on having to wait untill 21st June. This is not atall unreasonable nor unrealistic! But I think Johnson probably STILL won't budge on this, and if challenged on this he'll probably say something like "Well the reason for the 5 week gap between the stages is to give us 4 weeks to look at the data, and to give businesses one week's notice to allow them to reopen.". They don't need 4 weeks to look at the data, they can clearly see the hospital numbers and stats are absolutely tumbling far faster than they expected!

Johnson recently said some nonsense that "A third wave will wash upon these shores within 3 weeks.". Well that was over a month ago now! He got that wrong! There will be no devastating third wave! Even if cases do rise over the coming months, the link between cases leading to a surge in hospital admissions and deaths has been broken! Those days are long gone!

A Downing Street News Conference today at 5 with Johnson! I have a feeling he will be joined (yet) again by Whitty and Vallance, who will both probably have something negative to say as usual!

Having said that though, I am very very confident that come 21st June the lockdown and all restrictions will be completely scrapped. And about time too! I really can't see how they could justify delaying and dragging this on past that date.

 

[brad465]

The "Blitz spirit" was largely a myth you know? Though society has got more selfish overall, but then again when you've got more to lose you can be more keen to keep it!

Yes the Blitz was a criminal's paradise, as Mad Frankie Fraser himself admitted, and all those who believe too many are not following rules/guidance seem to forget that no society or strategy will have 100% support from the population. It never happened in the Blitz, it hasn't happened with covid restrictions and the fact law enforcement has been a thing since antiquity is proof that nothing else gets uniform acceptance either.

 

[Eyersey468]

Does that not possibly stop someone who wants to go to a specific location for a 'special event' like anniversary etc, to be told sorry full, then book at another place they did not really want to go to, but book it just to secure at least somewhere ?

Yes i can see it might still stop someone from booking somewhere they would have preferred

 

[farleigh]

Thanks. Good idea

 

[initiation]

Having said that though, I am very very confident that come 21st June the lockdown and all restrictions will be completely scrapped. And about time too! I really can't see how they could justify delaying and dragging this on past that date.

I really hope so however based on past performance, I wish I shared your confidence that all restrictions will be gone (social distancing, masks, requirements for testing before attending concerts etc..)

 

[Eyersey468]

I really hope so however based on past performance, I wish I shared your confidence that all restrictions will be gone (social distancing, masks, requirements for testing before attending concerts etc..)

I agree, based on the government's past performance I believe things when they happen now

 

[35B]

If pubs advertise that they hold 25% space for walk ins still, that should still encourage people to try their luck and hopefully fill the space. It's difficult though, as for customers you have your own needs but of course pubs need to run a business. It's just problems all these silly restrictions are creating.

But agreed, as I said above I think the deposit idea is best, but refundable if you cancel no later than 4 hours before.

The problem is an old one, and some restaurants were already requiring deposits to protect against late notice no shows (and that is longer than 4 hours).

The issue is worsened by Covid restrictions, but is one caused by the failure of those making and cancelling bookings to allow for the effect they have on the businesses they're treating so carelessly.