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27's in the Highlands

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CW2

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I saw this a few times when travelling and I think it was basically either a parcels or mail (or both) working as far as Elgin. How official the carriage of passengers was I do not know as I was always going in the opposite direction.
It was a fully functional train, but as you say its primary purpose was the conveyance of mail. As the booking offices en route weren't open and the guard didn't want to do ticket duties at that time of the morning, it was a fairly relaxed train. I did it on a few occasions. It went into the branch line platform at Huntly, for ease of transferring the mails, as well as shunting the yard at Elgin. If you were in a hurry there was another earlier departure from Elgin to Inverness (sometimes class 37 worked) which you connected into.
 
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Richard Scott

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That’s interesting- I always thought that they were actually quite different machines with quite different performance characteristics, although they looked fairly similar externally. The cab layout isn’t massively different I don’t think- the only differences I can think of are that 26s have Davies and Metcalfe brakes, 27s Westinghouse. The power controller on a 27 is a more angular version of that on a 26. But how different is the driving technique? They have different gearings too, I think, and obviously different electrical equipment (Crompton-Parkinson vs GEC). I presume there are more differences in terms of where things are situated in the engine room? Fault finding probably wouldn’t be too difficult, though.

I can imagine a lower-powered 26 would probably feel slightly sluggish compared with a 27, but otherwise performance would be fairly similar. The higher maximum speed of the 27 would be irrelevant on the WHL!
Have driven both albeit only in preservation. 26 lower geared than a 27 so the 90hp loss isn't noticeable at those speeds. Would say 26 is the slightly better loco due to lower gearing so gets away quicker. Crompton Parkinson electricals very forgiving and can virtually get full power down almost from a standing start in the 26. As for brakes little to choose between them in vacuum mode. Most dual braked locos act in similar ways, vac only loco like a 24 much better for braking.
 

hexagon789

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Crompton Parkinson electricals very forgiving and can virtually get full power down almost from a standing start in the 26.
While I've read a few reports of 27s being driven as much to the ammeter as the speedometer, which suggests that couldn't be done with them, if such attention had to be paid to the amps
 

MrEd

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Have driven both albeit only in preservation. 26 lower geared than a 27 so the 90hp loss isn't noticeable at those speeds. Would say 26 is the slightly better loco due to lower gearing so gets away quicker. Crompton Parkinson electricals very forgiving and can virtually get full power down almost from a standing start in the 26. As for brakes little to choose between them in vacuum mode. Most dual braked locos act in similar ways, vac only loco like a 24 much better for braking.
That’s interesting. The general consensus is that the 26 was the better loco but handicapped in some areas by its low gearing and low top speed (though this made it ideally suited to the HML, Far North and Kyle where top speed was irrelevant). I think (from memory- if what former ScR drivers told me is right) that a 27 required more gradual power application (more like the technique for applying power on a 25- which you definitely would not want to give full power from a standing start) but was quite vigorous in acceleration once it got going.

Of course, apart from the 27/1s and 27/2s used on the push-pull services, and the freight-only pool of 26/0s used on MGR workings (26001-007), I don’t think many 26s or 27s received air brakes until the mid-80s* (and many, like 27007/018/036, were withdrawn in 1986 still vacuum-only).

*I seem to remember that 4 class 27/0s (27034/038/041/042) were fitted with dual brakes in the mid 1970s for working Speedlink freight services over the West Highland Line to Corpach pulp mill with VDA vans etc. But most of the 27/0s remained vacuum only until withdrawal in the mid-80s. I don’t think there were any dual braked 26s (apart from 001-007, which were strictly confined to MGR workings in the Lothians and Fife) until the remaining class members received life-extension overhauls in the mid-1980s.
 

Cheshire Scot

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*I seem to remember that 4 class 27/0s (27034/038/041/042) were fitted with dual brakes in the mid 1970s for working Speedlink freight services over the West Highland Line to Corpach pulp mill with VDA vans etc.
I remember those four appearing frequently, and if on any given day one of these could not be provided for an AB working a 27/1 usually substituted.
 
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MrEd

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I remember those four appearing frequently, and if on any given day one of these could not be provided for an AB working a 27/1 usually substituted.
That’s right, which explained the very frequent appearance of 27/1s on the WHL. The 27/1s became a sort of ‘do anything’ sub-class with dual brakes and steam heat boilers as well as push-pull ability.* I think from the late 70s Fort William men began to sign 20s and 37s which were then often used on AB freight.

Of course, ED drivers had signed 20s and 37s since the 60s but at this stage I don’t think any of them signed all the way to Fort William (and definitely not Corpach).

*Whereas the 27/2s were pretty much dedicated push-pull locos and only started to appear on AB freights and other workings after the E-G shuttles had gone over to 47 haulage, were the 27/1s meant to be dedicated to the shuttles or were they conceived as more of a general purpose fleet which could work the shuttles if needed? You saw 27/1s on the WHL more often than on the shuttles if I seem to remember rightly!
 
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Inversnecky

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That’s right, which explained the very frequent appearance of 27/1s on the WHL. The 27/1s became a sort of ‘do anything’ sub-class with dual brakes and steam heat boilers. I think from the late 70s Fort William men began to sign 20s and 37s which were then often used on AB freight.

Of course, ED drivers had signed 20s and 37s since the 60s but at this stage I don’t think any of them signed all the way to Fort William (and definitely not Corpach).

How was it decided which loco would pull which train: was the driver assigned one, or a class?
 

MrEd

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How was it decided which loco would pull which train: was the driver assigned one, or a class?
It depends on all kinds of factors:

1) What route is the train to take? Imagine it’s Glasgow Queen Street to Fort William in the late 70s/early 80s.
2) What class/classes of loco are cleared to run over that route? The WHL is a tightly curved route with relatively weak bridges and earthworks. As a result, it can only accommodate locos which are RA 5 (this was the case in BR days certainly) without requiring severe speed restrictions.
3) The only RA 5 locos on the network are 20s, 25s, 26/1s, 27s, 31/1s, 37s and Deltics. But they will need train heat and braking systems which are compatible with the stock which is to be used. The booked drivers will need to ‘sign’ it- i.e. know how to drive it, know its performance and handling characteristics (as every class of loco performs differently) and know how to do simple fault-finding if a fault develops in service. The loco also needs enough power to be able to shift the booked load at a reasonable speed.
4) 20s can be ruled out as no train heat and not powerful enough. 31s are a non-starter as Scottish region has no allocation*. Deltics only signed by Haymarket men among Scottish drivers, who do not sign the WHL. Eastfield has an allocation of 25s but the problem is that Fort William men do not sign them. 26/1s widely used on Scottish Region but Fort William men don’t sign them (and probably underpowered for the heaviest WHL trains, which also require some faster running on the North Clyde Line between Dalmuir and Craigendoran). So the choice is either a 27 or 37.

Basically, the loco needs to be cleared for the intended route (this is where the RA number is considered), the booked drivers need to know how to drive it, and it needs to be able to provide the appropriate form of train heat to the intended rolling stock (if a passenger train), and in all cases it must have brakes which are compatible with the rolling stock.

An individual driver would have either one class on his traction card or many, depending on the depot at which he was based and the link that he was in. For instance, a Mallaig driver in the late 70s would sign only 27s as this was the only class ever likely to be used on his diagrams. An Eastfield driver in one of the higher links might work semi-fasts and expresses to Dundee and Aberdeen as well as passenger trains up the WHL and Oban line, so in the late 70s might sign classes 20, 25, 26, 27, 37, 40 and 47.

If you’re interested in the north Highland routes as your name suggests, then Wick and Kyle drivers in the late 70s would only sign 26s, while a top-link Inverness driver would probably sign 26s, 27s, 40s and 47s (as he would work to Aberdeen and Perth as well as Wick and Kyle); an Aberdeen or Perth man would have a similar traction card to his Inverness counterpart.

*I love 31s, but I could probably imagine a Scottish region driver’s reaction to one if ever one were allocated there. Heavier than a 37 but probably no improvement on a 27 (and far less efficient).
 
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Cowley

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It depends on all kinds of factors:

1) What route is the train to take? Imagine it’s Glasgow Queen Street to Fort William in the late 70s/early 80s.
2) What class/classes of loco are cleared to run over that route? The WHL is a tightly curved route with relatively weak bridges and earthworks. As a result, it can only accommodate locos which are RA 5 (this was the case in BR days certainly) without requiring severe speed restrictions.
3) The only RA 5 locos on the network are 20s, 25s, 26/1s, 27s, 31/1s, 37s and Deltics. But they will need train heat and braking systems which are compatible with the stock which is to be used.
4) 20s can be ruled out as no train heat. 31s equally as Scottish region has no allocation. Deltics only signed by Haymarket men among Scottish drivers, who do not sign the WHL. Eastfield has an allocation of 25s but the problem is that Fort William men do not sign them. So the choice is either a 27 or 37.

Basically, the loco needs to be cleared for the intended route (this is where the RA number is considered), the booked drivers need to know how to drive it, and it needs to be able to provide the appropriate form of train heat to the intended rolling stock (if a passenger train), and in all cases it must have brakes which are compatible with the rolling stock.

An individual driver would have either one class on his traction card or many, depending on the depot at which he was based and the link that he was in. For instance, a Mallaig driver in the late 70s would sign only 27s as this was the only class ever likely to be used on his diagrams. An Eastfield driver in one of the higher links might work semi-fasts and expresses to Dundee and Aberdeen as well as passenger trains up the WHL and Oban line, so in the late 70s might sign classes 20, 25, 26, 27, 37, 40 and 47.

If you’re interested in the north Highland routes as your name suggests, then Wick and Kyle drivers in the late 70s would only sign 26s, while a top-link Inverness driver would probably sign 26s, 27s, 40s and 47s (as he would work to Aberdeen and Perth as well as Wick and Kyle); an Aberdeen or Perth man would have a similar traction card to his Inverness counterpart.

Really interesting stuff @MrEd. :)
 

Cheshire Scot

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I think from the late 70s Fort William men began to sign 20s and 37s which were then often used on AB freight.
Class 20s were active in Fort William from the early diesel days.
In the late 70s there was a diagram for a pair of class 20s, north on an overnight freight, then the Crianlarich timber train and back south on the last afternoon freight.

Class 37s had a short fling on the West Highland around 1968 which I think was to provide Air Braked traction for some Freightliner Traffic to/from the Corpach but I think this was fairly short lived. They then re-appeared in the late 70s.

ED drivers didn't sign FW until the early eighties when they got an out and back passenger job but freight train timings of around six hours each way were well beyond the Ts&Cs of the day.

By the mid seventies there were several Dual Brake cl 27 diagrams for station pilot duties at Glasgow Central which could of course produce a 27/1 or 27/2 or probably even from time to time any of the four 'freight' dual 27/0s noted above.

For the E&G push pulls 27/1s were fitted with larger fuel tanks at the expense of a reduction in the size of the boiler water tank. Whilst it was in any case normal for locos to top up the boiler tank at Crianlarich on West Highland passenger work, if a 27/1 was on the train this was essential rather than good practice. I think the reduced size water tank took about 300 gallons.


4) 20s can be ruled out as no train heat and not powerful enough. 31s are a non-starter as Scottish region has no allocation*. Deltics only signed by Haymarket men among Scottish drivers, who do not sign the WHL. Eastfield has an allocation of 25s but the problem is that Fort William men do not sign them. 26/1s widely used on Scottish Region but Fort William men don’t sign them (and probably underpowered for the heaviest WHL trains, which also require some faster running on the North Clyde Line between Dalmuir and Craigendoran). So the choice is either a 27 or 37.
Cl 20s were sometimes used as an assisting engine on West Highland passenger turns, marshalled between the 27 and the train with through steam pipes enabling the train to be heated with the secondman looking after the boiler on the cl27.

They also occasionally worked the afternoon Fort William to Mallaig return trip (Mallaig drivers) at times of power shortage (mainly but not exclusively in summer when officially no heat was required, in winter it was no heat or cancel the train), some times as a 'mixed' train, and on one (summer) occasion that I know of throughout on the 08.36 from Glasgow to Fort William and on arrival another cl20 backed on to take the train to Mallaig.

Class 25s were reasonably regular performers to both Fort William and Oban vice a 27, and class 26s did appear occasionally and were accepted without question by Fort William drivers.

And of course Deltic's did work some Summer Sunday Edinburgh to Oban day trips (again late 70s) as being the only RA5 ETH loco when E&G Mk3 sets were used. I assume that would be a Haymarket driver route conducted but whether the same driver worked out and back or were they Taxi'd one way to/from Edinburgh I don't know - as it was Sunday work at time and three quarters a very longer shift might have been agreed as a good earner but I don't know for sure.
 

Inversnecky

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It depends on all kinds of factors:

1) What route is the train to take? Imagine it’s Glasgow Queen Street to Fort William in the late 70s/early 80s.
2) What class/classes of loco are cleared to run over that route? The WHL is a tightly curved route with relatively weak bridges and earthworks. As a result, it can only accommodate locos which are RA 5 (this was the case in BR days certainly) without requiring severe speed restrictions.
3) The only RA 5 locos on the network are 20s, 25s, 26/1s, 27s, 31/1s, 37s and Deltics. But they will need train heat and braking systems which are compatible with the stock which is to be used. The booked drivers will need to ‘sign’ it- i.e. know how to drive it, know its performance and handling characteristics (as every class of loco performs differently) and know how to do simple fault-finding if a fault develops in service. The loco also needs enough power to be able to shift the booked load at a reasonable speed.
4) 20s can be ruled out as no train heat and not powerful enough. 31s are a non-starter as Scottish region has no allocation*. Deltics only signed by Haymarket men among Scottish drivers, who do not sign the WHL. Eastfield has an allocation of 25s but the problem is that Fort William men do not sign them. 26/1s widely used on Scottish Region but Fort William men don’t sign them (and probably underpowered for the heaviest WHL trains, which also require some faster running on the North Clyde Line between Dalmuir and Craigendoran). So the choice is either a 27 or 37.

Basically, the loco needs to be cleared for the intended route (this is where the RA number is considered), the booked drivers need to know how to drive it, and it needs to be able to provide the appropriate form of train heat to the intended rolling stock (if a passenger train), and in all cases it must have brakes which are compatible with the rolling stock.

An individual driver would have either one class on his traction card or many, depending on the depot at which he was based and the link that he was in. For instance, a Mallaig driver in the late 70s would sign only 27s as this was the only class ever likely to be used on his diagrams. An Eastfield driver in one of the higher links might work semi-fasts and expresses to Dundee and Aberdeen as well as passenger trains up the WHL and Oban line, so in the late 70s might sign classes 20, 25, 26, 27, 37, 40 and 47.

If you’re interested in the north Highland routes as your name suggests, then Wick and Kyle drivers in the late 70s would only sign 26s, while a top-link Inverness driver would probably sign 26s, 27s, 40s and 47s (as he would work to Aberdeen and Perth as well as Wick and Kyle); an Aberdeen or Perth man would have a similar traction card to his Inverness counterpart.

*I love 31s, but I could probably imagine a Scottish region driver’s reaction to one if ever one were allocated there. Heavier than a 37 but probably no improvement on a 27 (and far less efficient).
Thank you for such a detailed reply.

What is a a traction card? A list of locos the driver has trained on and been cleared to drive?

Taking your example of the WHL, if there was a 27 and a 37 available, wouldn’t there be someone to assign one loco, in case, say, the driver decided to chose a 37 instead of a 27, but the 37 was actually needed for later and heavier train?

Presumably the locos for the day’s trains would be allocated in advance, or at least the Class?

Also, would it not be a Shunter drive who got a train all set up, including the loco, or would the train drive be responsible for collecting his loco?
 

Gloster

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From memory, a lot of the Scottish Region Class 20s were originally fitted with a through steam pipe, but this later removed. In the early 1980s (or possibly late 1970s) pipes were refitted to two, possibly three, locos for the WHL.

As I understand it, the 20s were mainly at FW for trips out to Corpach, but by having a bigger loco than an 08 they could also act as a standby. The 08’s low speed was a constraint on its operation.
 

Mag_seven

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My first ever trip as a kid on the WHL (from Glasgow to Mallaig and back) was behind Class 27s. I remember the train back to Glasgow from Mallaig had a London portion added at Fort William which was detached in Cowlairs loop.
 

Cheshire Scot

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What is a a traction card? A list of locos the driver has trained on and been cleared to drive?
Yes. There will be a requirement to maintain that competence by driving the relevant class of loco within prescribed timeframes but back in the 70s it was less stringent and drivers might continue to sign a class of loco although they hadn't been on one for possibly several years - e.g. class 26s on the West Highland which didn't have regular work but tended to be accepted without question when they appeared.
Taking your example of the WHL, if there was a 27 and a 37 available, wouldn’t there be someone to assign one loco, in case, say, the driver decided to chose a 37 instead of a 27, but the 37 was actually needed for later and heavier train?

Presumably the locos for the day’s trains would be allocated in advance, or at least the Class?
Yes locos would be allocated in advance. At Fort William there was a chalk board listing the jobs and the allocated loco number. This information would have been telephoned through from the Control Office. The procedures at larger depots such as Eastfield - and Inverness - may have been different.
Also, would it not be a Shunter drive who got a train all set up, including the loco, or would the train drive be responsible for collecting his loco?
That again might vary by depot but at the small depots in the Highlands Drivers would normally have to prep there own loco although at Fort William there was an early shift only 'shed' turn who prepped locos and shunted locos to from the station to exchange with locos working to and from Mallaig - the inward loco on the early train from Mallaig went to the shed for fuel before returning to take the next train back to Mallaig. In the meantime the Mallaig crew had worked south to the changover point and back to FW where they would again swap locos with the shed turn and take the train to Mallaig whilst the loco ex Glasgow went to the shed.
My first ever trip as a kid on the WHL (from Glasgow to Mallaig and back) was behind Class 27s. I remember the train back to Glasgow from Mallaig had a London portion added at Fort William which was detached in Cowlairs loop.
Northbound the Euston to Fort William portion was attached to the Mallaig train at Queen Street, but southbound it was detached at Cowlairs. When the service ran to/from Kings Cross the London portion ran via Queen St in both directions.
There were some summer Saturday variations but summer weekend strengthening from Euston ceased following the first summer after the transfer from Kings Cross despite having been provided - and well used - for many years from KX.
 
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delt1c

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Northbound the Euston to Fort William portion was attached to the Mallaig train at Queen Street, but southbound it was detached at Cowlairs. When the service ran to/from Kings Cross the London portion ran via Queen St in both directions.
There were some summer Saturday variations but summer strengthening from Euston ceased after the first summer.
Interestingly used the Northbound service in summer 1976 and the sleepers were combined with the day stock at Cowlairs then tripped to Queen St as one train.
 

Inversnecky

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Yes. There will be a requirement to maintain that competence by driving the relevant class of loco within prescribed timeframes but back in the 70s it was less stringent and drivers might continue to sign a class of loco although they hadn't been on one for possibly several years - e.g. class 26s on the West Highland which didn't have regular work but tended to be accepted without question when they appeared.

Yes locos would be allocated in advance. At Fort William there was a chalk board listing the jobs and the allocated loco number. This information would have been telephoned through from the Control Office. The procedures at larger depots such as Eastfield - and Inverness - may have been different.

That again might vary by depot but at the small depots in the Highlands Drivers would normally have to prep there own loco although at Fort William there was an early shift only 'shed' turn who prepped locos and shunted locos to from the station to exchange with locos working to and from Mallaig - the inward loco on the early train from Mallaig went to the shed for fuel before returning to take the next train back to Mallaig. In the meantime the Mallaig crew had worked south to the changover point and back to FW where they would again swap locos with the shed turn and take the train to Mallaig whilst the loco ex Glasgow went to the shed.

Northbound the Euston to Fort William portion was attached to the Mallaig train at Queen Street, but southbound it was detached at Cowlairs. When the service ran to/from Kings Cross the London portion ran via Queen St in both directions.
There were some summer Saturday variations but summer strengthening from Euston ceased after the first summer.
Appreciate the time taken to respond in detail. This forum is seriously missing a like button!
 

MrEd

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That again might vary by depot but at the small depots in the Highlands Drivers would normally have to prep there own loco although at Fort William there was an early shift only 'shed' turn who prepped locos and shunted locos to from the station to exchange with locos working to and from Mallaig - the inward loco on the early train from Mallaig went to the shed for fuel before returning to take the next train back to Mallaig. In the meantime the Mallaig crew had worked south to the changover point and back to FW where they would again swap locos with the shed turn and take the train to Mallaig whilst the loco ex Glasgow went to the shed.
Am I right in thinking that Mallaig drivers signed from Fort William to Tulloch (as well as Mallaig-Fort William) so that they could take the 07:00 Mallaig-Glasgow south to Tulloch to meet the 06:00 Glasgow-Mallaig on their early shift?

Class 20s were active in Fort William from the early diesel days.
In the late 70s there was a diagram for a pair of class 20s, north on an overnight freight, then the Crianlarich timber train and back south on the last afternoon freight.

Class 37s had a short fling on the West Highland around 1968 which I think was to provide Air Braked traction for some Freightliner Traffic to/from the Corpach but I think this was fairly short lived. They then re-appeared in the late 70s.

ED drivers didn't sign FW until the early eighties when they got an out and back passenger job but freight train timings of around six hours each way were well beyond the Ts&Cs of the day.

By the mid seventies there were several Dual Brake cl 27 diagrams for station pilot duties at Glasgow Central which could of course produce a 27/1 or 27/2 or probably even from time to time any of the four 'freight' dual 27/0s noted above.

For the E&G push pulls 27/1s were fitted with larger fuel tanks at the expense of a reduction in the size of the boiler water tank. Whilst it was in any case normal for locos to top up the boiler tank at Crianlarich on West Highland passenger work, if a 27/1 was on the train this was essential rather than good practice. I think the reduced size water tank took about 300 gallons.



Cl 20s were sometimes used as an assisting engine on West Highland passenger turns, marshalled between the 27 and the train with through steam pipes enabling the train to be heated with the secondman looking after the boiler on the cl27.

They also occasionally worked the afternoon Fort William to Mallaig return trip (Mallaig drivers) at times of power shortage (mainly but not exclusively in summer when officially no heat was required, in winter it was no heat or cancel the train), some times as a 'mixed' train, and on one (summer) occasion that I know of throughout on the 08.36 from Glasgow to Fort William and on arrival another cl20 backed on to take the train to Mallaig.

Class 25s were reasonably regular performers to both Fort William and Oban vice a 27, and class 26s did appear occasionally and were accepted without question by Fort William drivers.

And of course Deltic's did work some Summer Sunday Edinburgh to Oban day trips (again late 70s) as being the only RA5 ETH loco when E&G Mk3 sets were used. I assume that would be a Haymarket driver route conducted but whether the same driver worked out and back or were they Taxi'd one way to/from Edinburgh I don't know - as it was Sunday work at time and three quarters a very longer shift might have been agreed as a good earner but I don't know for sure.
I never knew that about 37s on the WHL in the 60s- well before my time, so thank you for that! Does anyone have a photo of one?

I probably underestimated the use of 25s and 26s vice 27s. I also saw a picture in a Tom Noble book of 24104 crossing Rannoch Moor with a ballast train in 1975, but not sure how regular this was. I do remember 25s working to Oban on occasions and something tells me that Oban drivers officially signed them- I don’t know if that’s true or if I’ve imagined that. Of course the whole route from Glasgow-Oban could be driven by an Eastfield crew on an out-and-back turn.

I have seen photos of 20s on the Mallaig extension deputising for unavailable 37s- thankfully on the warmer summer days, usually on the 16.30 mixed train from Fort William and 18.55 back, as these were Fort William turns. I don’t think Mallaig officially signed 20s but as you say, things were more laid back then. That said, you couldn’t guarantee that train heat would not be required in the West Highlands even in high summer- some days it’s colder there in July and August than in January and February. I always got the impression that steam heat was assumed to be required all year round on those routes (though I’m sure crews would take a view based on the ambient temperature during the day).

As for the Deltic- appropriately enough for an Oban line working it was 55021 ‘Argyll and Sutherland Highlander’ if I remember correctly. I think this was on several summer Sundays in July and August 1981, always with 55021. This was a classic case of Scottish region ingenuity. I believe the ScR management wanted to experiment with a tourist train direct from Edinburgh to Oban with a running commentary on the sights en route and a buffet service. As a public address system was required for the commentary, and management didn’t want to put premium fare-paying tourists in battered Mk1s/early Mk2s, the coaching stock chosen was a spare E-G push-pull set (one of which at least would be spare on Sundays) consisting of a Mk2F DBSO, 5 Mk3s and a Mk1 RMB buffet. This was air-con stock so required a loco with an ETS supply. Unfortunately the Oban line back then was strictly RA5, and the civil engineer would not allow a 47/4 or 47/7 to be used. The only ETS-fitted class of loco at the time which was RA5 was the Deltic, so away to Oban went 55021.

I seem to remember it was Haymarket drivers who worked the train out-and-back (it was limited stop if I remember correctly). The train stopped at Cowlairs East before it took the chord to pick up an Eastfield man to route-conduct from Glasgow to Oban. Assuming I remember this correctly.

The experiment was a success, as the tourist train returned in 1983 with the push-pull set all the way from Edinburgh to Oban. As ETHELs (redundant class 25s converted into electric train heating units) were available by this point, the train was worked throughout by an Eastfield 37 dragging the ETHEL and the air-con stock, with Eastfield crews throughout. I believe it ran in this form until 1985.
 
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Cheshire Scot

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This thread brings back so many memories of the great days on the West Highland with loco hauled passenger trains, lots of freights, signal boxes (and proper signals) - and huge operating costs!
In most cases the signalmen (and women) also sold tickets, including one enterprising chap who decided to use single sided carbon paper in the paper ticket book instead of double sided and was found out by audit when a long distance ticket collected at destination, the back of which did show carbon paper had been used, did not match the shorter distance journey and fare which had been entered later on the station 'carbon copy'.
Am I right in thinking that Mallaig drivers signed from Fort William to Tulloch (as well as Mallaig-Fort William) so that they could take the 07:00 Mallaig-Glasgow south to Tulloch to meet the 06:00
Yes, Mallaig worked to Tulloch and would have had knowledge beyond there (I think to Rannoch) as it was not unknown for the 06.00 to run quite late. Fort William had booked work as far as Arrochar but signed to Garelochhead in case of late running whilst Oban had booked work to either Arrocahr or Glen Douglas (can't remember which) but for some reason signed as far as Dumbarton Central* (see below).

I probably underestimated the use of 25s and 26s vice 27s. I also saw a picture in a Tom Noble book of 24104 crossing Rannoch Moor with a ballast train in 1975, but not sure how regular this was. I do remember 25s working to Oban on occasions and something tells me that Oban drivers officially signed them- I don’t know if that’s true or if I’ve imagined that. Of course the whole route from Glasgow-Oban could be driven by an Eastfield crew on an out-and-back turn.
Oddly enough there seem to be almost as many published WHL photos of cl 26s as of cl25s but the 25s appeared more often than 26s to both Oban and Fort William with appearances 26s being very rare in my experience. I have seen the cl24 photo referred to but that is the only one I have seen and I do not recall seeing any 24s on the WHL.

Eastfield did have a daily job to Oban, out in the morning and back mid-day.

I never knew that about 37s on the WHL in the 60s- well before my time, so thank you for that! Does anyone have a photo?
I have never seen a published photo but did see the train several times in my school days.

I have seen photos of 20s on the Mallaig extension deputising for unavailable 37s- thankfully on the warmer summer days, usually on the 16.30 mixed train from Fort William and 18.55 back, as these were Fort William turns. I don’t think Mallaig officially signed 20s but as you say, things were more laid back then. That said, you couldn’t guarantee that train heat would not be required in the West Highlands even in high summer- some days it’s colder there in July and August than in January and February. I always got the impression that steam heat was assumed to be required all year round on those routes (though I’m sure crews would take a view based on the ambient temperature during the day).

The 16.25/.30/.40 (times varied) was the return working of the Mallaig middle turn and the later return form Malliag was the outward leg of the late turn which then worked the last train back to Mallaig. Although there was an official 'no heat' season as you say the traincrews did use discretion although in summer the Mallaig middle turn was booked to be single manned as (a) there was no requirement for a secondman to work the boiler and (b) the turnround at Fort William allowed time for a PNB (virtually all other WHL turns had to be double manned due there being no PNB opportunity.
That evening train from Mallaig could, out with the tourist season when it was normally very busy, often run throughout with no passengers at all, or at best maybe two or three from Mallaig to Morar or Arisaig, or perhaps occasionally someone from Corpach or Banavie to Fort William.

As for the Deltic- appropriately enough for an Oban line working it was 55021 ‘Argyll and Sutherland Highlander’ if I remember correctly. I think this was on several summer Sundays in July and August 1981, always with 55021. This was a classic case of Scottish region ingenuity. I believe the ScR management wanted to experiment with a tourist train direct from Edinburgh to Oban with a running commentary on the sights en route and a buffet service. As a public address system was required for the commentary, and management didn’t want to put premium fare-paying tourists in battered Mk1s/early Mk2s, the coaching stock chosen was a spare E-G push-pull set (one of which at least would be spare on Sundays) consisting of a Mk2F DBSO, 5 Mk3s and a Mk1 RMB buffet. This was air-con stock so required a loco with an ETS supply. Unfortunately the Oban line back then was strictly RA5, and the civil engineer would not allow a 47/4 or 47/7 to be used. The only ETS-fitted class of loco at the time which was RA5 was the Deltic, so away to Oban went 55021.

I seem to remember it was Haymarket drivers who worked the train out-and-back (it was limited stop if I remember correctly). The train stopped at Cowlairs East before it took the chord to pick up an Eastfield man to route-conduct from Glasgow to Oban. Assuming I remember this correctly.

The experiment was a success, as the tourist train returned in 1983 with the push-pull set all the way from Edinburgh to Oban. As ETHELs (redundant class 25s converted into electric train heating units) were available by this point, the train was worked throughout by an Eastfield 37 dragging the ETHEL and the air-con stock, with Eastfield crews throughout. I believe it ran in this form until 1985.
As you say the experiment was a success and when this became a regular feature for 6 or 8 weeks in subsequent summers a balancing working was put on from Oban to Glasgow and back for which Oban crews extended their route knowledge to Queen St. This gave Oban people a day out opportunity to visits friends/relatives/sights in Glasgow (no Sunday opening of shops back then) as well as enabling longer distance journeys beyond Glasgow previously not possible on a Sunday.

*The previous knowledge to Dumbarton did however get used during ASLEF strikes as Oban was drivers were mainly NUR members (predecessor of the RMT) and when trains throughout Scotland were at a stand due to any of the from time to time ALSEF disputes, the Oban train would set out in the morning and run to Dumbarton, run round and return to Oban.

You mention ETHELs, 70 plus tonnes of dead weight on a heavily graded line! Need I say more.
 
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D6130

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Twice in the Spring or Summer of 1973 I had a class 24 home from Queen Street to Helensburgh Upper on the 18 35 to Oban instead of the booked class 27. On both occasions it was an ex-works loco running-in after overhaul at St Rollox works. On the first occasion, a Saturday evening, it was 5007 and due to engineering works at Westerton, we were diverted via Anniesland and Yoker, covering the extremely rare Maryhill-Knightswood South and Hyndland North-Hyndland West curves, as well as enjoying rare traction. On the second occasion 5019 did the honours, but we ran booked route via Westerton. Class 26s were indeed rare beasts on the WHL, but I did see at least two of them - 5311 and 5316 - on the N18 Faslane Scrapyard trip in the early 'seventies. Technically speaking, as the first twenty 26s were RA6, they were banned from the WHL, but the Faslane trip didn't cross any of the viaducts, so a blind eye was obviously turned when nothing else was available. Oban drivers had a Summer-only turn travelling passenger on the morning train to Helensburgh Upper for a PNB before relieving an Eastfield man on the dated 10 35 Queen Street-Oban DMU. The DMU returned from Oban at 18 55, so presumably the back shift Oban driver worked it to Crianlarich for a PNB, before being relieved by an Eastfield man who would have travelled passenger North on the 16 38 Queen St-Mallaig. The Oban man would presumably then travel passenger home on the 18 35 from Queen Street. Incidentally, anyone with an interest in the WHL in the 'seventies would probably enjoy reading Alan Warner's novel "The Deadman's Pedal", which vividly describes life on the Oban line in the 1970s - albeit in a slightly dramatised fashion.
 
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Cheshire Scot

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Twice in the Spring or Summer of 1973 I had a class 24 home from Queen Street to Upper on the 18 35 to Oban instead of the booked class 27. On both occasions it was an ex-works loco running-in after overhaul at St Rollox works. On the first occasion, a Saturday evening, it was 5007 and due to engineering works at Westerton, we were diverted via Anniesland and Yoker, covering the extremely rare Maryhill-Knightswood South and Hyndland North-Hyndland West curves, as well as enjoying rare traction. On the second occasion 5019 did the honours, but we ran booked route via Westerton. Class 26s were indeed rare beasts on the WHL, but I did see at least two of them - 5311 and 5316 - on the N18 Faslane Scrapyard trip in the early 'seventies. Technically speaking, as the first twenty 26s were RA6, they were banned from the WHL, but the Faslane trip didn't cross any of the viaducts, so a blind eye was obviously turned when nothing else was available. Oban drivers had a Summer-only turn travelling passenger on the morning train to Helensburgh Upper for a PNB before relieving an Eastfield man on the dated 10 35 Queen Street-Oban DMU. The DMU returned from Oban at 18 55, so presumably the back shift Oban driver worked it to Crianlarich for a PNB, before being relieved by an Eastfield man who would have travelled passenger North on the 16 38 Queen St-Mallaig. The Oban man would presumably then travel passenger home on the 18 35 from Queen Street. Incidentally, anyone with an interest in the WHL in the 'seventies would probably enjoy reading Alan Warner's novel "The Deadman's Pedal", which vividly describes life on the Oban line in the 1970s - albeit in a slightly dramatised fashion.
That is all interesting stuff.

Hyndland North to West would be an extremely rare piece of track. Knightswood South to Maryhill I covered on a Queen St to Kyle railtour which departed from Low Level due to being 11 coaches in length -although years later there was a booked Sunday 11 coach departure from High Level, the 08.40 to Aberdeen which conveyed a portion for Inverness. Presumably they didn't want to entertain 11 coaches on a Saturday morning whereas on a Sunday morning after the 08.00 to Edinburgh the only other train before 09.00 was the 08.26 arrival from Edinburgh.

I remember the summer DMU to Oban and indeed the first time I went to Oban by train was in the early 70s on that very service and joining the train at Helensburgh Upper - although I didn't notice what was happening traincrew wise, and subsequently I always assumed they would have travelled out pass on the 12.25 to relieve at Dalmally.

I seem to recall a sectional appendix entry which authorised the RA6 26 variant on RA5 routes - EDIT: The cl26 photograph referred to in post 11, southbound from Fort William, is 26012 (1975)

The Faslane trip was normally a cl20 as far as I recall although I do remember once seeing a 26 on the Glen Douglas MOD trip, and two or three appeared during my nine years working in Fort William.

I will look out for 'The Deadmans Pedal', thanks for the recommend. EDIT - found it on Amazon!
 
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CW2

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I travelled on the first run of 55021 from Edinburgh to Oban. The train was fully booked, so I purchased a priv return Edinburgh - Oban and found a seat in the buffet car.
As mentioned above the stock was an E+G Mk 3 push pull set + buffet car. In theory Deltics are barred from providing ETH to Mk 3 stock. The reasons for this are twofold: firstly the Mk 3 stock is not equipped with the MA set shutoff facility which allows the Deltic to draw full power for traction on starting, until the auxiliary voltage has risen to a suitable level (usually around 20 mph); and secondly the wide voltage variations cause flashovers in the Mk 3 MA sets. When we came to a stand for the crew change on the chord at Cowlairs, we almost didn't go any further, as the driver couldn't overcome the drag of the wheel flanges on the curve with the train supply draining the power and reducing the available control. Eventually the driver twigged, shut off the ETH manually, and then we got going OK.
 

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Oban drivers had a Summer-only turn travelling passenger on the morning train to Helensburgh Upper for a PNB before relieving an Eastfield man on the dated 10 35 Queen Street-Oban DMU.
Another piece of the jigsaw falls into place.

In earlier years the summer 10.35 DMU left Queen St at 11.35. Assuming the same crew diagramming principles applied that would mean the Oban driver picking it up at Dumbarton Central (after PNB there) which would have driven the need for Dumbarton route knowledge.

Interestingly used the Northbound service in summer 1976 and the sleepers were combined with the day stock at Cowlairs then tripped to Queen St as one train.
I would guess that must have been some sort of amended working (STP or on the day) as the 04.35 from Edinburgh was booked non-stop to Queen St which it did on the several occasions I used it between '74 and '77.
 
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MrEd

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I seem to recall a sectional appendix entry which authorised the RA6 26 variant on RA5 routes - EDIT: The cl26 photograph referred to in post 11, southbound from Fort William, is 26012 (1975)
That would make a lot of sense, as I have definitely seen photos of pilot scheme 26s working all the way to Wick and Thurso (the Far North line was RA5 north of Brora in the BR blue era). Most were Haymarket allocated after they moved north but I believe Inverness received some of them after the 24/1s had been withdrawn. 26015 was even fitted with twin headlights and 26018 miniature snowploughs for working these routes (strangely 015 never had ploughs and 018 never headlights).

There was no problem with pilot scheme 26s working to Kyle because I believe Inverness-Dingwall and Dingwall-Kyle have always been RA6 if I remember rightly (the Kyle line does not have as many large viaducts and never strikes me as being as tightly curved as other Highland routes). Certainly 47s worked freights to Invergordon, as did 40s. Class 40s (RA6) were also known to work to Kyle on freights, specials and the odd diagrammed passenger in the 70s.

Here‘s a point- are all 24s RA6, or just the 24/0s/the earlier ones? 24/1s definitely worked to Wick and Thurso regularly in the late 60s and early 70s. Perhaps the same exemption applied to the 24s as to the pilot-scheme 26s?

Strangely enough, there was (unless this is just enthusiast/messroom gossip) initially a plan to use cascaded 33s (RA6) on these routes to replace their less powerful BRCW cousins from the late 1970s, and to allow for electrically heated trains, but this was dropped because the civil engineer deemed them to have too high an axle loading. Perhaps, though, this was the sort of gossip which would have been circulating around the ‘speculative ideas’ section if this forum had existed in the late 70s!

@CheshireScot your accounts are fascinating, I love hearing about the history of the WHL and the men who worked it. Talking about the Mallaig line turns, were any of the Mallaig line trains worked by Fort William crews, or were all the trains worked by the Mallaig base? Was the 13.15 FW-Mallaig and 16.00 return a Fort William turn?

The Mallaig line must have been hard to work single manned. Presumably a secondman would be needed if the loco was a class 20 because the driver does not have a clear line of sight on left hand curves when running bonnet first? But even if the loco was a 27 or 37, it was surely handy to have a secondman because of the token exchanges, some of which would necessarily be done on the move (Annat, Banavie, Mallaig Junction) and also Morar level crossing (over the main road to Mallaig until the bypass was built) which had to be worked by the train crew, and had been train crew worked since the wee signal box there (like a hobbit signal box) closed in 1966, if I’m right. I don’t think that the crossing there was automated until January 1985?

With ETH-fitted 37/4s and RETB signalling, I can imagine all the Mallaig turns became single manned in about 1987?

Another point- what turn took Fort William men as far as Arrochar? I’m just trying to think what their turns were. The 06:00 Glasgow QS-Mallaig and 07:00 Mallaig-Glasgow QS were an Eastfield turn to Tulloch, then the southbound sleeper was (I think?) a Fort William turn as far as Rannoch (is that right?) where the Fort William crew swapped with the Eastfield crew who had brought the 16.38 from Glasgow north. How were the 08:35 Glasgow QS-Mallaig and 13.00 Mallaig-Glasgow QS crewed (at least between Glasgow and Fort William?). What about the freights? Understandably they are more variable.
 
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Cheshire Scot

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Here‘s a point- are all 24s RA6, or just the 24/0s/the earlier ones? 24/1s definitely worked to Wick and Thurso regularly in the late 60s and early 70s. Perhaps the same exemption applied to the 24s as to the pilot-scheme 26s?

Strangely enough, there was (unless this is just enthusiast/messroom gossip) initially a plan to use cascaded 33s (RA6) on these routes to replace their less powerful BRCW cousins from the late 1970s, and to allow for electrically heated trains, but this was dropped because the civil engineer deemed them to have too high an axle loading. Perhaps, though, this was the sort of gossip which would have been circulating around the ‘speculative ideas’ section if this forum had existed in the late 70s!
I am afraid I can't spread any light on the cl24 question.

There was certainly local support in favour of class 33s, but quite how official it was I don't know. Given that much of the loaded freight on the West Highland was permitted to load up to RA8 axle loadings a quibble about an extra 1t axle load on a loco might seem a bit petty even if it might be many times per day. Maybe that was the straw which broke the camels back, they couldn't withdraw the existing concessions but wouldn't grant any more. Personally I would have loved to have seen at least a trial of a 33 to see how it performed.
Of course more recently class 67s with a much heavier axle load have worked the route albeit with severe speed restrictions over many viaducts.

The Mallaig line must have been hard to work single manned. Presumably a secondman would be needed if the loco was a class 20 because the driver does not have a clear line of sight on left hand curves when running bonnet first? But even if the loco was a 27 or 37, it was surely handy to have a secondman because of the token exchanges, some of which would necessarily be done on the move (Annat, Banavie, Mallaig Junction) and also Morar level crossing (over the main road to Mallaig until the bypass was built) which had to be worked by the train crew, and had been train crew worked since the wee signal box there (like a hobbit signal box) closed in 1966, if I’m right. I don’t think that the crossing there was automated until January 1985?

With ETH-fitted 37/4s and RETB signalling, I can imagine all the Mallaig turns became single manned in about 1987?
I was never aware of an issue single manning on a cl20 (which is not to say issues were not raised and possibly actioned). The bonnet first view ahead from the drivers seat would be similar to the view a steam driver would have had and whilst some might say that had a fireman's seat on the other side, if the fireman was shovelling coal he was not looking forward. Token exchanges on the move were never a problem for drivers, and on the journey from Fort William (the return cl 20 working was always double manned) only Banavie would be on the 'wrong side' but with a 5mph restriction over the adjacent swing bridge a brief pause to exchange would not have been a problem. Morar crossing was normally opened by the secondman and closed by the Guard but when single manned the Guard would have opened it as well.

By 1987 I had left the area (and have still never travelled north of Crianlarich on a Sprinter!) but even with ETH double manning would still be required unless a PNB could be diagrammed - at Mallaig probably still only the middle turn. Another secondman duty was the coupling between the loco and the train. By the eighties Mallaig was on a single day shift and the days of station staff there competent to couple/uncouple were long gone, probably since early seventies I would guess so unless the guard did it (unusual (but not unknown) for a Guard on a passenger turn), it was part of the secondman role - and for the single manned mid turn the early turn would do the run round on arrival and the late turn would relieve and run round later on.

Another point- what turn took Fort William men as far as Arrochar? I’m just trying to think what their turns were. The 06:00 Glasgow QS-Mallaig and 07:00 Mallaig-Glasgow QS were an Eastfield turn to Tulloch, then the southbound sleeper was (I think?) a Fort William turn as far as Rannoch (is that right?) where the Fort William crew swapped with the Eastfield crew who had brought the 16.38 from Glasgow north. How were the 08:35 Glasgow QS-Mallaig and 13.00 Mallaig-Glasgow QS crewed (at least between Glasgow and Fort William?). What about the freights? Understandably they are more variable.

Your 'sleeper' workings are spot on. The summer trains 08.35 from Qn St and 15.15 from FW were one way workings for Eastfield and Fort William crews with outward/homeward travel on the morning southbound passenger for the 08.35 with changeover booked at Crianlarich although often at Tyndrum due to late running, and at Arrochar for the afternoon train. The 08.35 and 15.15 timings only came in when there was a reshuffle following the transfer of the sleeper from kings Cross to Euston. Part of that involved the southbound sleeper departure time changing from 16.15 winter and 17.25 summer to 18.20 all year (from autumn 1977). The former 17.25 was balanced by a summer 10.05 from Queen St and these were crewed in the same way as the 08.35 and 15.15 but obviously with different changeover points - Ardlui in the morning and Bridge of Orchy in the afternoon /evening. In that era the Mallaig line was three trains per day (all Mallaig jobs) plus two additional trains each day in summer, both Fort Wiliam jobs. After that '77 timetable change the 13.15 ex FW and 16.00 ran all year and were crewed by Fort William.

In due course the 08.35 and 15.15 summer trains were replaced by 09.50 from Qn St and 14.15 return, an out and back for an Eastfield crew (but still double manned as there was insufficient time for a PNB at FW) which meant FW no longer had the summer jobs. The 09.50 and 14.15 however, not only ran in summer but also MFSO all year, finally providing an opportunity to leave FW later than on the morning train arrive in Glasgow before 22.30.

In the seventies and eighties there were many railtours to West Highland destinations not quite every Saturday but often more than one in a month and sometimes two on the same day. Typically these would be Eastfield/FW crews changing over wherever the passenger train was met and on to Mallaig mainly FW out and back as the time in Mallaig would typically be short for a day trip from the central belt but if there was a longer stay in Mallaig, perhaps an overnight from south of the border then they might also be involved.

Freights also worked on changeovers, typically at Tyndrum or Crianlarich and these too had to be double manned because again there was no PNB opportunity. At the peak in the late seventies there were five each a day between Corpach/Fort William and Cadder/Mossend (three each way during the night), plus the timber train between Corpach and Crianlarich, and a Cadder to Oban and return each night. All of these 5 days per week. EDIT: Plus at the south end of the line trip freights to the MOD site at Glen Douglas and to the scrap yard at Faslane - they mainly cut up ships but in the sixties also cut up steam locos. There were intermediate Key Token machines at Faslane Jn and Crianlarich Lower Jn which enabled the line to remain open for traffic once the train was 'locked in' on the branch.

Oban did have diagrams which changed over en route between passenger and freight trains which meant Guards at the south end on these jobs were from Cowlairs rather than Queen St as Qn St was passenger only.
 
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D6130

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I am afraid I can't spread any light on the cl24 question.

There was certainly local support in favour of class 33s, but quite how official it was I don't know. Given that much of the loaded freight on the West Highland was permitted to load up to RA8 axle loadings a quibble about an extra 1t axle load on a loco might seem a bit petty even if it might be many times per day. Maybe that was the straw which broke the camels back, they couldn't withdraw the existing concessions but wouldn't grant any more. Personally I would have loved to have seen at least a trial of a 33 to see how it performed.
Of course more recently class 67s with a much heavier axle load have worked the route albeit with severe speed restrictions over many viaducts.


I was never aware of an issue single manning on a cl20 (which is not to say issues were not raised and possibly actioned). The bonnet first view ahead from the drivers seat would be similar to the view a steam driver would have had and whilst some might say that had a fireman's seat on the other side, if the fireman was shovelling coal he was not looking forward. Token exchanges on the move were never a problem for drivers, and on the journey from Fort William (the return cl 20 working was always double manned) only Banavie would be on the 'wrong side' but with a 5mph restriction over the adjacent swing bridge a brief pause to exchange would not have been a problem. Morar crossing was normally opened by the secondman and closed by the Guard but when single manned the Guard would have opened it as well.

By 1987 I had left the area (and have still never travelled north of Crianlarich on a Sprinter!) but even with ETH double manning would still be required unless a PNB could be diagrammed - at Mallaig probably still only the middle turn. Another secondman duty was the coupling between the loco and the train. By the eighties Mallaig was on a single day shift and the days of station staff there competent to couple/uncouple were long gone, probably since early seventies I would guess so unless the guard did it (unusual (but not unknown) for a Guard on a passenger turn), it was part of the secondman role - and for the single manned mid turn the early turn would do the run round on arrival and the late turn would relieve and run round later on.



Your 'sleeper' workings are spot on. The summer trains 08.35 from Qn St and 15.15 from FW were one way workings for Eastfield and Fort William crews with outward/homeward travel on the morning southbound passenger for the 08.35 with changeover booked at Crianlarich although often at Tyndrum due to late running, and at Arrochar for the afternoon train. The 08.35 and 15.15 timings only came in when there was a reshuffle following the transfer of the sleeper from kings Cross to Euston. Part of that involved the southbound sleeper departure time changing from 16.15 winter and 17.25 summer to 18.20 all year (from autumn 1977). The former 17.25 was balanced by a summer 10.05 from Queen St and these were crewed in the same way as the 08.35 and 15.15 but obviously with different changeover points - Ardlui in the morning and Bridge of Orchy in the afternoon /evening. In that era the Mallaig line was three trains per day (all Mallaig jobs) plus two additional trains each day in summer, both Fort Wiliam jobs. After that '77 timetable change the 13.15 ex FW and 16.00 ran all year and were crewed by Fort William.

In due course the 08.35 and 15.15 summer trains were replaced by 09.50 from Qn St and 14.15 return, an out and back for an Eastfield crew (but still double manned as there was insufficient time for a PNB at FW) which meant FW no longer had the summer jobs. The 09.50 and 14.15 however, not only ran in summer but also MFSO all year, finally providing an opportunity to leave FW later than on the morning train arrive in Glasgow before 22.30.

In the seventies and eighties there were many railtours to West Highland destinations not quite every Saturday but often more than one in a month and sometimes two on the same day. Typically these would be Eastfield/FW crews changing over wherever the passenger train was met and on to Mallaig mainly FW out and back as the time in Mallaig would typically be short for a day trip from the central belt but if there was a longer stay in Mallaig, perhaps an overnight from south of the border then they might also be involved.

Freights also worked on changeovers, typically at Tyndrum or Crianlarich and these too had to be double manned because again there was no PNB opportunity. At the peak in the late seventies there were five each a day between Corpach/Fort William and Cadder/Mossend (three each way during the night), plus the timber train between Corpach and Crianlarich, and a Cadder to Oban and return each night. All of these 5 days per week.

Oban did have diagrams which changed over en route between passenger and freight trains which meant Guards at the south end on these jobs were from Cowlairs rather than Queen St as Qn St was passenger only.
Unfortunately a class 33 is the best part of 12 tonnes heavier than a 27 which, with an additional 3 tonnes per axle, would put it fairly high into the RA6 bracket....plus they can only supply ETH at the standard Southern Region 750 volts, as opposed to the BR standard 1,000 volts, so the WHL trains would Have been pretty chilly in Winter. However, I believe there are plans for a 33 to work the return leg of a railtour from Oban this Autumn, so we shall see what happens if that comes off.
 

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Unfortunately a class 33 is the best part of 12 tonnes heavier than a 27 which, with an additional 3 tonnes per axle, would put it fairly high into the RA6 bracket....plus they can only supply ETH at the standard Southern Region 750 volts, as opposed to the BR standard 1,000 volts, so the WHL trains would Have been pretty chilly in Winter. However, I believe there are plans for a 33 to work the return leg of a railtour from Oban this Autumn, so we shall see what happens if that comes off.
I don't recall the weight difference being that great, but may years have passed and it didn't happen anyway. If it had made any headway as a proposal no doubt the techie people would have found a solution to the voltage problem - and they did provide ETH on Crewe Cardiff workings in later years. It will be interesting to see how the Oban 33 works out if it does happen.
 
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D6130

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If it had made any headway as a proposal no doubt the techie people would have found a solution to the voltage problem. It will be interesting to see how the Oban 33 works out if it does happen.
Right enough the 33s did work with 1,000 volt stock on such inter-regional services as Waterloo-Exeter, Portsmouth/Brighton-Cardiff and Cardiff-Manchester; as well as with 750 volt stock on internal SR services.
 

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No it's not. It's only approx 1 ton heavier
Quite right......apologies - I stand corrected. I had the figure of 85 tonnes in the back of my mind, but have just realised that this is their maximum permitted speed. Put it down to old age and decrepitude!
 
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