6A11 (Robeston Sidings - Theale Murco) on fire near Llanelli (27/08)

[Western 52]

RTT is showing a 1523 Felin Fran to Robeston this afternoon. 1000 tonnes. Presumably the undamaged wagons which were originally planned to move on Saturday?

66004 passed Pembrey Crossing with this working at 1606hrs. Running at normal speed.

 

[randyrippley]

Bad as it is, it could have been a lot worse.

I don't want to think about the consequences if the train had been conveying Aviation Fuel

most aviation fuel is paraffin - not much different from diesel.
I wouldn't have thought demand was big enough for large trains of avgas

I wonder why the adjacent pools of water are such a bright colour? I've looked on Google satellite and they are the same colour. Must have been a big exclusion zone. The closest houses are 500m away.

those pools look like floodwater, the colour is soil run-off
highly conveniently placed for the fire brigade

Would most of the diesel be burnt in the fire, so the ground leakage may not be too great.

probably not - diesel doesn't evaporate and nor does it burn easily.
The probability is a lot of contaminated soil which will either have to be dug out and incinerated, or a long-term pollution risk to the river

 

[PHILIPE]

those pools look like floodwater, the colour is soil run-off
highly conveniently placed for the fire brigade


probably not - diesel doesn't evaporate and nor does it burn easily.
The probability is a lot of contaminated soil which will either have to be dug out and incinerated, or a long-term pollution risk to the river

It says earlier in the thread that the coloured pool is always there and nothing caused as a result of the incident.

 

[Clarence Yard]

They are minewater pools and you see them around quite a few old pit sites. They are all subject to environmental control measures to slowly reduce the iron oxide effect over time.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wouldn't have thought demand was big enough for large trains of avgas

Avgas, no; but Jet A-1, there’s plenty of demand and trains accordingly.

 

[randyrippley]

Avgas, no; but Jet A-1, there’s plenty of demand and trains accordingly.

thats the point I'm making - jet fuel would be no more flammable than diesel

They are minewater pools and you see them around quite a few old pit sites. They are all subject to environmental control measures to slowly reduce the iron oxide effect over time.

maybe, but you can see the adjacent field is flooded with the same colour water and the pools are clearly higher than normal - some of the tracks are flooded. You see the same colour in Furness with the red iron-rich soil there

 

[Llanigraham]

those pools look like floodwater, the colour is soil run-off
highly conveniently placed for the fire brigade

Those pools are settlement ponds from a disused and abandoned coal mine, and the orange colour is ferrous pollution. I very much doubt they were used to fight the fire.

maybe, but you can see the adjacent field is flooded with the same colour water and the pools are clearly higher than normal - some of the tracks are flooded. You see the same colour in Furness with the red iron-rich soil there

The fields are not flooded, that is their normal level.
This has already been mentioned in this thread.

 

[MaxB]

Useful video here https://twitter.com/i/status/1298895854498185216

 

[father_jack]

Whisper going around (uncorroborated but from a sensible source) that eyes are focusing on an applied handbrake.

 

[Amlag]

Whisper going around (uncorroborated but from a sensible source) that eyes are focusing on an applied handbrake.

That would not be the first time such a major derailment / incident has been caused by an 'applied handbrake' .

 

[allaction]

There’s a film report from on site scheduled to be on BBC Wales Today at 1830 tonight (Wednesday 2 September), and then available on the BBC iPlayer for 24 hours.

Network Rail are reported as saying that the damage to the infrastructure is the worst they’ve seen.

 

[aar0]

Those pools are settlement ponds from a disused and abandoned coal mine, and the orange colour is ferrous pollution.

That's what they look like. I haven't checked if there's a coal mine there, but the orange colour is iron oxide (rust), which settles out as the pH rises and the water is oxygenated coming out of the mine. Wouldn't want to spray it anywhere!!

 

[Boodiggy]

Whisper going around (uncorroborated but from a sensible source) that eyes are focusing on an applied handbrake.

this is what I heard a few days ago too....

 

[allaction]

There’s a film report from on site scheduled to be on BBC Wales Today at 1830 tonight (Wednesday 2 September), and then available on the BBC iPlayer for 24 hours.

Network Rail are reported as saying that the damage to the infrastructure is the worst they’ve seen.

UPDATE - The report starts approximately 7 minutes into the programme and lasts for 5 minutes.

 

[Clarence Yard]

That's what they look like. I haven't checked if there's a coal mine there, but the orange colour is iron oxide (rust), which settles out as the pH rises and the water is oxygenated coming out of the mine. Wouldn't want to spray it anywhere!!

Morlais Colliery would be the obvious candidate.

 

[doningtonphil]

That would not be the first time such a major derailment / incident has been caused by an 'applied handbrake' .

There was a previous incident that the RAIB investigated (Ferryside, October 2017) that explored many potential causes. Most likely cause was brake blocks incorrectly fitted (fell off and jammed between block and wheel). However the condition of the handbrake was investigated as a possible cause (indicator showed 'applied' but that was probably as a result of physical trauma to the indicator as the rest of the rigging pointed to it being unapplied). All of the brake components were investigated (Distributor, Variable Load Valve, Distributor) too. I am sure all these things will be checked this time too.

 

[Llanigraham]

That's what they look like. I haven't checked if there's a coal mine there, but the orange colour is iron oxide (rust), which settles out as the pH rises and the water is oxygenated coming out of the mine. Wouldn't want to spray it anywhere!!

There used to be a coal mine there.
And agreed, iron oxide water like that causes lots of problems from many mines.

 

[Don Steedy]

Natural Resources Wales reporting that 330,000 litres of diesel was spilled in the derailment. With 400,000 litres safely recovered from the 10 tankers that leaves 120,000 litres ish lost in the fire.


https://naturalresources.wales/abou...ht-train-derailment-and-diesel-spill/?lang=en

At about 11:15pm on Wednesday 26 August 2020, a freight train with 25 tank wagons, each containing up to 75,000 litres of diesel derailed near Llangennech, Carmarthenshire. The derailment and the subsequent damage to the wagons resulted in a significant spillage of diesel and a major fire. Ten of the 25 wagons had derailed spilling 330,000 litres of diesel.

Contractors are continuing to remove diesel contained by the pipe dams, with 16,400 litres of product recovered within the past 24 hours....

 

[bb21]

As with all such threads, can I remind everyone to refrain from speculation please. Thank you.

Some types of gossip should be confined within the bounds of the messroom.

 

[Mikey C]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales...news/wales&link_location=live-reporting-story

[/URL]

The line will probably be closed until Christmas

 

[randyrippley]

Natural Resources Wales reporting that 330,000 litres of diesel was spilled in the derailment. With 400,000 litres safely recovered from the 10 tankers that leaves 120,000 litres ish lost in the fire.


https://naturalresources.wales/abou...ht-train-derailment-and-diesel-spill/?lang=en

thats 280 tonnes of spilt fuel, much of it absorbed into the soil. Potentially thousands of tonnes of contaminated soil to shift.
Would have been cleaner and safer to let it all burn off rather than put the fire out

 

[big all]

thats 280 tonnes of spilt fuel, much of it absorbed into the soil. Potentially thousands of tonnes of contaminated soil to shift.
Would have been cleaner and safer to let it all burn off rather than put the fire out

heavy fuel oil won't burn easily suspect most if not all had escaped to surrounding ground with the fire being extinguished when the fuel in the tank and close surrounding ground finished??

 

[Bikeman78]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales...news/wales&link_location=live-reporting-story

[/URL]

The line will probably be closed until Christmas

I guess it helps that the line is barely used. I'd like to think that, had it happened between Newport and Cardiff, they would reopen more quickly.

 

[krus_aragon]

I guess it helps that the line is barely used. I'd like to think that, had it happened between Newport and Cardiff, they would reopen more quickly.

Yes, plus if it happened between Newport and Cardiff they'd have four lines to choose from: the least damaged could be pressed back into service sooner, etc.

 

[Bikeman78]

Yes, plus if it happened between Newport and Cardiff they'd have four lines to choose from: the least damaged could be pressed back into service sooner, etc.

When the iron ore train derailed east of Cardiff Central (about 20 years ago) it tore up all four tracks. From memory it took about a week to clear the wreckage and restore some of the track. Some of the points were replaced with plain track for quite a while.

 

[JKF]

This service yesterday from Margam to Eastleigh Arlington comprised 12 bogie tank wagons of the type in the service that crashed (with 66130/139 providing power) - possible that these are the undamaged stock from the incident being moved for storage or maintenance? However the wagon order doesn’t match the stock of the derailed train so they will have been shunted around a bit.

Realtime Trains - 646B 1100 Margam T.C. to Eastleigh Arlington (Zg)

Realtime Trains provides live realtime running information for the Great British railway network using open data.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Phone video here:

 

[Lawrence18uk]

Whisper going around (uncorroborated but from a sensible source) that eyes are focusing on an applied handbrake.

Any update?

 

[Clarence Yard]

The whisperer may get a bit embarrassed.

Let's wait for what the RAIB enquiry into other possible reasons throws up.

 

[DannyMich2018]

When the iron ore train derailed east of Cardiff Central (about 20 years ago) it tore up all four tracks. From memory it took about a week to clear the wreckage and restore some of the track. Some of the points were replaced with plain track for quite a while.

I know this is a busy stretch of line but when this happened (possibly 1998) I'm sure it wasn't closed for weeks on end. Why does it seem than any accident these days take forever to reopen? Look at Eastleigh this year weeks of disruption. I remember back in 1996 severe freight derailment near my town (fortunately no injuries) was opened within a few days.

 

[Killingworth]

I know this is a busy stretch of line but when this happened (possibly 1998) I'm sure it wasn't closed for weeks on end. Why does it seem than any accident these days take forever to reopen? Look at Eastleigh this year weeks of disruption. I remember back in 1996 severe freight derailment near my town (fortunately no injuries) was opened within a few days.

Specially made point work plus track bed contamination?