A long shot - OS maps

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Andy873

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I know this is a long shot, but does anyone have any OS maps of Lancashire dated 1967 to say 1970?

As some of you will be aware I'm trying to confirm when the Great Harwood (North Lancs loop line) was lifted. I believe it was 1967.

I have found an LCC report stating that gravel and sleepers were sold to outside contractors "sometime in 1967 or '68" - they also state OS maps confirm when the line as lifted - so I'm trying to get the exact year.

Can't afford to buy the maps just on the off chance.

Does anyone on here have a copy somewhere?

Thanks,
Andy.
 
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mailbyrail

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I'll take a look, I've got 1" OS maps purchased in 1971 but not sure what date they were updated to. It will be a couple of days before I can access them I'm afraid.
 

pdeaves

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Be aware that presence or otherwise on an OS map does not necessarily mean presence or otherwise of any given feature. It depends on when the element is updated. The map can be a useful guide, granted, but a closed line may be still shown (and in principle a line may not be shown that is still physically there under all the weeds!).
 

30907

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The 6in to 1m OS map published in 1966 shows the railway as 'dismantled'. The map was fully revised in 1955 but updated for 'major roads' (and the railway apparently) in that year.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/189180657
The 1966 update was obviously done without any sort of site visit as one substantial 1950s housing estate (Harwood Bar, Andy) has been ignored altogether. My guess is that someone reported that the line was dismantled on the basis that one track had been lifted and a cartographer simply removed all trace of it in anticipation.
 

Ken H

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I dont think this will help with the OP's query, but a look at https://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm may be interesting

It allows you to see 2 'maps' at the same time
You can have current OSGB 1:50,000, old OSGB maps (not all sets are complete), geological maps (solid and drift), google satellite and can even get street view.

you have co-acting mouse pointers so if you point on the left map, the other pointer is at the same place on the right map.

You can click on the geological maps and it tells you what that rock is and its age.

Not my site.
 

Andy873

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Be aware that presence or otherwise on an OS map does not necessarily mean presence or otherwise of any given feature. It depends on when the element is updated. The map can be a useful guide, granted, but a closed line may be still shown (and in principle a line may not be shown that is still physically there under all the weeds!).

Yes, you are correct, I once thought OS maps were extremely accurate, but now can only think of them as a guide.

The 6in to 1m OS map published in 1966 shows the railway as 'dismantled'. The map was fully revised in 1955 but updated for 'major roads' (and the railway apparently) in that year.

https://maps.nls.uk/view/189180657

This map is a great find by you - thanks - and with regards to this map...

The 1966 update was obviously done without any sort of site visit as one substantial 1950s housing estate (Harwood Bar, Andy) has been ignored altogether. My guess is that someone reported that the line was dismantled on the basis that one track had been lifted and a cartographer simply removed all trace of it in anticipation.

You are absolutely correct, the housing estate is missing, and regarding the line, the up line was still there, but it is not shown at all. It does show however the complete empty space where the station, carriage shed & goods yard used to be, it's almost as if they had simply rubbed it all out.

So based on all of this, I can't see that another revision say in 1967 would have put it back on the map, if this is the case then the OS trail stops in 1966.

Disappointing as all of this is, it does give us a lesson, no matter what line you might be interested in, you just can't base it on OS maps alone.

Thanks every one for looking into this, if you do get any more clues please pass it on.
 
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mailbyrail

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My paper copy of the OS map is copyright 1961, fully revised 1958 with major roads revised 1966, 'reprinted with minor changes and the addition of Public Rights of Way 1967'. That would explain housing developments after 1958 being omitted but roads and railways being updated up to 1966. Symbols for open and closed stations were updated - eg Haslingden closed (in 1960), Wilpshire closed (in 1962) Helmshore open (until December 1966)
It shows only 'Tk of old Rly' from Blackburn to Padiham.
The 1970 BR detailed listing of all routes doesn't include the line except Padiham to Rose Grove.
 

Andy873

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It shows only 'Tk of old Rly' from Blackburn to Padiham.
The 1970 BR detailed listing of all routes doesn't include the line except Padiham to Rose Grove.

Thanks for taking some time in digging out the OS map and the BR route list.

So with this we can confirm that from 1966, no OS map shows any line west of Padiham (only as disused etc).
The BR route list confirms (as I know) the line to Padiham and on to the power station remained in use, actually until March 1993.

Does the OS map show anything of Simonstone station? - no one knows when it was demolished, there are two possible dates 1965 (when GH station was demolished and the down line was lifted) or 1967 when Padiham station was demolished.

If the OS map (1966) does not show Simonstone station, then it's more likely it was demolished in 1965 at the same time as removing the down line.

As for who the outside contractors were (that removed the up line in 1967), I don't know how I could trace that at all.

I may have asked this before, but would BR have their own list of preferred contractors, or would it have been put out to tender i.e. advertised in local papers?
 
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mailbyrail

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The OS map only shows closed stations as an open white circle on black single or multiple track lines. As only the dotted disused symbol is shown then no station symbol is shown, although there is no indication of any buildings to the East of the road either which is where the station and goods yard was.
 

mailbyrail

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Just noticed the line beyond Padiham closed station running West as far as the power station (what the map shows as 'Works') is mapped with a single line symbol on the 'revised 1966' map but shown throughout as double track on the NLS map as at 1958. It's double track as far as Padiham closed station on both maps.
 

Andy873

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The OS map only shows closed stations as an open white circle on black single or multiple track lines. As only the dotted disused symbol is shown then no station symbol is shown, although there is no indication of any buildings to the East of the road either which is where the station and goods yard was.

Cannot thank you enough for this!

My theory was that Simonstone station was demolished in 1965 at the same time as Great Harwood station was as they moved along the down line i.e. lifting it. If you think logically (mind you we are talking about BR here) it would make sense to do that.

So on the basis of probability (to be more sure than not) as we know GH station was demolished in 1965 & the 1966 OS map shows an empty space where it used to be which is exactly the same for Simonstone station, it must have been 1965 when both were demolished.

I believe the last section of the down line (Padiham to Rose Grove) was lifted in 1973 i.e. singled when they closed Rose Grove West signal box, but it's interesting the OS map of 1966 only shows a single line to the power station.

I'm told the up line (Padiham to Rose Grove) was still there in 2001 although overgrown by now, and when Lancashire County Council asked Railtrack about the line they replied that it was "still operational".
 

Andy873

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And with regards to OS maps...

I found from their website they only update a sheet when there are "sufficient changes" or it's an area with high demand for the maps such as the Lake District. Dismantling a railway line and stations must come under "sufficient changes", with lots of lines closing in the 1960's they must have been in contact with BR frequently.

So if there is a revision of a map in the 1960's of your area of interest it may help you pin point an actual year a line was lifted (or close enough).

With mailbyrails's 1966 OS map and Sir Felix Pole's map (also 1966) they must have been told by BR both stations had gone, and they planned to remove the up line as well - so they were "rubbed out" - that's my conclusion anyway.
 

randyrippley

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..........................I'm told the up line (Padiham to Rose Grove) was still there in 2001 although overgrown by now, and when Lancashire County Council asked Railtrack about the line they replied that it was "still operational".

The power station site was progessively redeveloped in the early 2000's.........for instance the Time Computers empire built a new call centre for its "Supanet" ISP there around 2002-2004 (not sure of the exact date) and I was told the rail link still existed immediately prior to the building started. Never saw it myself so can't confirm it

A lot of the site redevelopment was financed by the County Council, so them asking about the rail link makes sense
 
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Andy873

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Thanks rippley!

My friend who knows a lot about the line emailed today confirming the year / date Simonstone station was demolished - thanks to you all we had it right!

Lancashire Evening Telegraph newspaper Thursday 30th December . 1965 . THE END OF THE LINE. mentions Great Harwood & Simonstone station were both demolished in 1965.

So now I have the proof - but thanks to you all - it's a bit like playing at being Sherlock Holmes.
 
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