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A potential summons to court.

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idangillow

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25 Nov 2020
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Levelshume
Hi everyone,

So my story is that basically I was boarding a train from Levelshume to Manchester Piccadilly, and I boarded the train without a railcard, because I'm new here to England by the way. So I'm 22 and I bought a 16-25 ticket without realizing that I needed a railcard to validate it. I was stopped by the train station guards and I told them what exactly happened and they assured me that this will not go to court at all. I receive two letters later (one was asking for my railcard, which I really don't have), and other one is saying that I was accused of claiming to have a railcard when I already specifically said I don't have it at all. Now the letter says I may receive a summons. What should I do? I offered an out of court settlement for this...

Thanks everyone :wub:
 
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Haywain

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3 Feb 2013
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What should I do? I offered an out of court settlement for this...
You say you offered a settlement - if this has been done in response to the letter you have received you now have to wait. If not, you need to send a letter setting out your understanding of your error, your regret and an offer to pay the fare due and costs. And then wait for a response.
 

WesternLancer

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2019
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6,996
Hi everyone,

So my story is that basically I was boarding a train from Levelshume to Manchester Piccadilly, and I boarded the train without a railcard, because I'm new here to England by the way. So I'm 22 and I bought a 16-25 ticket without realizing that I needed a railcard to validate it. I was stopped by the train station guards and I told them what exactly happened and they assured me that this will not go to court at all. I receive two letters later (one was asking for my railcard, which I really don't have), and other one is saying that I was accused of claiming to have a railcard when I already specifically said I don't have it at all. Now the letter says I may receive a summons. What should I do? I offered an out of court settlement for this...

Thanks everyone :wub:
You need to write back to them with a clear letter explaining the nature of your error as stated - but feel free to post draft of it here if you want any advice on content. Are you in UK as a student perhaps? If so your college / university Student Union may be able to help you with this matter - ask for their advice service or welfare office.

Also - go to buy a railcard now, and read the info that comes with it (assuming you plan to use trains again in UK) as this shows that you now understand the rules and are happy to comply with them.


Bear in mind when you have a railcard you must have it at all times ready to show if you travel with a ticket bought with the railcard discount.
 
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MotCO

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Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
4,085
Actually, I can quite understand the error. If you are a stranger from abroad and you see a ticket saying 16 - 25, you would buy it. Is there anything on the machine saying "Warning - you need a railcard" on words to that effect (assuming the ticket was bought at a machine or on-line)?

Qustion - did the OP buy at a ticket ofice or on-line / at a machine?
 

WesternLancer

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Actually, I can quite understand the error. If you are a stranger from abroad and you see a ticket saying 16 - 25, you would buy it. Is there anything on the machine saying "Warning - you need a railcard" on words to that effect (assuming the ticket was bought at a machine or on-line)?

Qustion - did the OP buy at a ticket ofice or on-line / at a machine?
Yes, that is what I thought too - I was reminded of circs like I think in France where if you are of an age group - eg an older person - you get a discounted fare on SNCF simply by virtue of your age, even if you are not French citizen (or I think if you are a military veteran, whereas in UK you would need to have purchased a Veteran's Railcard to to be entitled to such a discount). Apols if I have this wrong as I'm not that expert on overseas ticketing.

It may be that it is the UK that is unusual in that for age groups (other than under 16) you only get a discount when you have purchased a Railcard to permit that discount entitlement. In some ways what is thus inconsistent in the UK is the fact that people aged below 16 years get a discount without having to buy a Railcard!

Of course in a fares penalty scenario all this is tough luck, but easy to understand why the OP may have made this mistake.

To answer your Q's I think TVMs generally remind you to have the railcard with you. a ticket office would not sell you a discounted ticket without seeing the Railcard. Not sure what a Northern TVM does, I find them so hard to use I avoid them wherever possible...
 

Haywain

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Is there anything on the machine saying "Warning - you need a railcard" on words to that effect
Every website and TVM that I am aware of will only offer the discount once the user has actively selected the railcard option and selected the specific railcard from a list. I struggle to believe that selecting a railcard discount is just unlucky.
 

idangillow

New Member
Joined
25 Nov 2020
Messages
2
Location
Levelshume
Actually, I can quite understand the error. If you are a stranger from abroad and you see a ticket saying 16 - 25, you would buy it. Is there anything on the machine saying "Warning - you need a railcard" on words to that effect (assuming the ticket was bought at a machine or on-line)?

Qustion - did the OP buy at a ticket ofice or on-line / at a machine?
Hi there!

No, I got it at an old machine and it didn't say I needed a railcard to get it.
 

clagmonster

Established Member
Joined
8 Jun 2005
Messages
2,442
Hi there!

No, I got it at an old machine and it didn't say I needed a railcard to get it.
May I ask when the offence took place (approximately). Also, to clarify, the ticket was obtained from a ticket vending machine at Levenshulme?
 

tpfx89

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Joined
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Messages
168
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Teesside
You are new here to England but you know it's an old machine?
Must have been an accident somewhere round here because I see a red flag.

In all seriousness though, is there any chance that at a station where you may see high student footfall that a 16-25 ticket may feature on a "common fares/most purchased" type screen?
 

Bletchleyite

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Must have been an accident somewhere round here because I see a red flag.

In all seriousness though, is there any chance that at a station where you may see high student footfall that a 16-25 ticket may feature on a "common fares/most purchased" type screen?

I don't think this can happen, the ticket itself appears then you have to add the discount on.
 

tpfx89

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I just know that ours do have some regularly purchased ones on the first page of the "tickets for today" section, without being stood in front of one I can't think whether any discounted tickets are on there, given the "most purchased" idea, they might do. If there was then this may be a valid defence.

I mean Levenshulme certainly isn't a TPE machine mind, so it might be a moot point but if it was the case OP could go and take a picture of such a screen and that might sway a decision maker. As it stands the conditions are what they are and the ticket certainly wasn't valid, but it could make what they might ee as evasion into a reasonable mistake.
 

Bletchleyite

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I just know that ours do have some regularly purchased ones on the first page of the "tickets for today" section, without being stood in front of one I can't think whether any discounted tickets are on there, given the "most purchased" idea, they might do. If there was then this may be a valid defence.

Discounted (i.e. child/Railcard) don't appear on the "frequently purchased" screens, just the base fare which you then go on to discount if applicable.
 

Haywain

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Discounted (i.e. child/Railcard) don't appear on the "frequently purchased" screens, just the base fare which you then go on to discount if applicable.
That’s right, it isn’t possible to set a discounted fare on the popular tickets screen.
 

WesternLancer

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At the end of the day the OP can tell Northern what his story is and they can judge how likely one is to be confused by it, which will no doubt influence their decision on what penalty or other route to go down I guess.
 

Wyrleybart

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At the end of the day the OP can tell Northern what his story is and they can judge how likely one is to be confused by it, which will no doubt influence their decision on what penalty or other route to go down I guess.

Agree. Would purchasing a railcard after the event ie now, support the claim that it was a genuine mistake ?
 

WesternLancer

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Agree. Would purchasing a railcard after the event ie now, support the claim that it was a genuine mistake ?
Personally I would say that it would, but it would depend on the likelihood of Northern being minded to show discretion I guess.
 

Haywain

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Agree. Would purchasing a railcard after the event ie now, support the claim that it was a genuine mistake ?
No, not at all. To my thinking it would simply indicate that the buyer has bought the railcard because they didn't get away with not having one (not suggesting this is the OP's mindset though).
 
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