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A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

Senex

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I had a call the other day claiming that my Amazon Prime account was up for renewal and that they had charged me £79.99, all very believable. Other than it was on my work landline which I've never linked to Amazon.

That and I wouldn't trust it anyway.

I've had several of those in the last few days, to my home landline and sounding much more plausible than the run-of-the-mill scam calls. Luckily I'm not a Prime member in any case. so it was easy to tell these were criminals. More seriously, unless for some reason one has cause to be very suspicious of all unexpected calls, how is one expected to be able to distinguish a call like these from genuine communications from Amazon? If you go and hunt around on their web-site, you'll find that they say they won't be communicating by direct phone call, but what if you haven't seen that? (And the Telephone Preference Service is utterly useless as a defence against scammers, so registering with that is no real help to anyone. Equally, having an ex-directory number doesn't seem to help either.)
 
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JohnMcL7

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I've had several of those in the last few days, to my home landline and sounding much more plausible than the run-of-the-mill scam calls. Luckily I'm not a Prime member in any case. so it was easy to tell these were criminals. More seriously, unless for some reason one has cause to be very suspicious of all unexpected calls, how is one expected to be able to distinguish a call like these from genuine communications from Amazon? If you go and hunt around on their web-site, you'll find that they say they won't be communicating by direct phone call, but what if you haven't seen that? (And the Telephone Preference Service is utterly useless as a defence against scammers, so registering with that is no real help to anyone. Equally, having an ex-directory number doesn't seem to help either.)

I wouldn't trust any calls and if you think it might be genuine then hang up and phone them back through an official number. There was a post earlier criticising the lack of technical literacy of the scammers but what likely makes them effective is that official support is usually very similar coming from India as well and often with a lack of technical literacy.

Jim Browning has a new video on the Amazon Prime scam which is chilling how much money they're trying to scam people out of:

 

najaB

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Equally, having an ex-directory number doesn't seem to help either.
Because robo-diallers fire out a few hundred calls at a time (which is why there's often a delay between you picking up the phone and the scammer starting to speak), the only way that being ex-directory will help is that they won't be able to associate the number with a name.
 
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I've had several of those in the last few days, to my home landline and sounding much more plausible than the run-of-the-mill scam calls. Luckily I'm not a Prime member in any case. so it was easy to tell these were criminals. More seriously, unless for some reason one has cause to be very suspicious of all unexpected calls, how is one expected to be able to distinguish a call like these from genuine communications from Amazon? If you go and hunt around on their web-site, you'll find that they say they won't be communicating by direct phone call, but what if you haven't seen that? (And the Telephone Preference Service is utterly useless as a defence against scammers, so registering with that is no real help to anyone. Equally, having an ex-directory number doesn't seem to help either.)

The scammers use VOIP (Voice over Internet Protocol) As most of them are from abroad the TPS has no jurisdiction over them. They can use spoof numbers which can be changes frequently so it is almost impossible to block them. They call using automatic diallers; they are not usually targeting people personally, it is just a scattergun approach as the diallers call random numbers. Being ex-directory will not prevent random diallers calling that number.

Many people have said they don't answer landline calls unless they recognise the number. There are issues with this attitude. Some companies have direct numbers to speak to a particular person, but outgoing calls will frequently seem to come from a different number, usually the switchboard number. My wife has a serious condition at present, which has required appointments at 4 different hospitals and also the doctors' surgery. Frequently appointments are notified by landline. It could be quite important to receive these calls. So I will put up with scam calls. I think we are pretty savvy, so I don't expect to fall for one, and they can be quite amusing.
 

SteveM70

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Just had another “I gather you’ve been involved in a car accident that wasn’t your fault” call. Again, we’ll spoken young lady. Phoebe Armstrong this time.

When I asked her why she was ringing she said it was a confirmation call. When I asked why she needed to know she ended the call
 

pdeaves

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I've had several of those in the last few days, to my home landline and sounding much more plausible than the run-of-the-mill scam calls.
Coincidentally, I had an 'Amazon Prime' call yesterday. It sounded like a robot voice (maybe text-to-speech reader?) in my case. The number recorded that they (pretended to) call from started 06---
 

Turtle

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Coincidentally, I had an 'Amazon Prime' call yesterday. It sounded like a robot voice (maybe text-to-speech reader?) in my case. The number recorded that they (pretended to) call from started 06---
Yes. I had that yesterday, robot voice and all, plus the BT Internet cut off. These calls seem to come in bunches.
 

najaB

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How exactly does the Amazon Prime scam work? Do they say that your Prime subscription has expired and needs to be renewed using the helpful link they provide or do they take details over the phone?

Edit: Just watched the video linked by @JohnMcL7 above.
 
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JohnMcL7

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Yes. I had that yesterday, robot voice and all, plus the BT Internet cut off. These calls seem to come in bunches.

From seeing some of the Jim Browning videos the same companies record a bunch of different automated ones including fake ISP warnings about users being cut off.
 

PeterY

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Perhaps Amazon SHOULD be a warning on their home page about scams .
 

ABB125

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Aha! What's this? My PayPal account has been limited due to safety concerns?
Screenshot_20201023-194733.png
(Image shows scam text message)

I can see a few issues with this:
  • If it were a genuine text, perhaps they would include a link to the actual PayPal website?
  • Similarly, is "security concerns" a better phrase to use than "safety concerns"? What are they concerned about which is unsafe?
  • Would real PayPal actually use a random mobile number?
  • Perhaps most importantly, I don't have a PayPal account!
 

yorksrob

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Make all calls from abroad go through an operator. It would kill outsourcing of call centres, so a double benefit.
 

najaB

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Make all calls from abroad go through an operator. It would kill outsourcing of call centres, so a double benefit.
Not even close to feasible. Firstly the volume of genuine IDD calls immediately makes it impactable - unless you want to pay for several thousand additional operators. Secondly, most scammers will be using VoIP endpoints that are inside the UK. This means that, much like the teen horror movie, the calls are coming from inside!
 

yorksrob

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Not even close to feasible. Firstly the volume of genuine IDD calls immediately makes it impactable - unless you want to pay for several thousand additional operators. Secondly, most scammers will be using VoIP endpoints that are inside the UK. This means that, much like the teen horror movie, the calls are coming from inside!

In that case, disable the VoIP access from abroad.
 

najaB

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In that case, disable the VoIP access from abroad.
Instantly killing the international business sector. As an example, my daily team call includes participants from the UK, USA, Canada and The Philippines. No VoIP, no team call. And pretty soon, no business.
 

yorksrob

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Instantly killing the international business sector. As an example, my daily team call includes participants from the UK, USA, Canada and The Philippines. No VoIP, no team call. And pretty soon, no business.

And we all have to put up with the con artists just so that you can call eachother.

Perhaps you could pay for a premium network which domestic numbers weren't included in. Let business rip, but anything to domestic numbers comes through an operator.
 

RichT54

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I just let all my landline calls go straight to the answerphone these days. Scam callers tend to hang up immediately the recorded message starts. Genuine callers will usually leave a message and, if I recognise them, I will pick up the phone while they are still on the line.
 

najaB

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And we all have to put up with the con artists just so that you can call each other.
As do literally tens of thousands of people working in businesses up and down the country. I hate to (apparently) break it to you, but part of being Global Britain is that we have to have an open communications system.
Perhaps you could pay for a premium network which domestic numbers weren't included in. Let business rip, but anything to domestic numbers comes through an operator.
With respect, it's clear that you don't have a clue about that of which you speak. Take it from someone who spent 15 of the last 18 years working in telecoms: there is no way that is even remotely close to practicable.
I just let all my landline calls go straight to the answerphone these days. Scam callers tend to hang up immediately the recorded message starts. Genuine callers will usually leave a message and, if I recognise them, I will pick up the phone while they are still on the line.
This is the basic idea behind systems like BT Call Guardian.
 

yorksrob

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As do literally tens of thousands of people working in businesses up and down the country. I hate to (apparently) break it to you, but part of being Global Britain is that we have to have an open communications system.
With respect, it's clear that you don't have a clue about that of which you speak. Take it from someone who spent 15 of the last 18 years working in telecoms: there is no way that is even remotely close to practicable.
This is the basic idea behind systems like BT Call Guardian.

Hooray for "global Britain" a.k.a everything being flogged off and/or going down the pan.
 

The Ham

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Hooray for "global Britain" a.k.a everything being flogged off and/or going down the pan.

VOIP is a very useful business phone system, by using it I can be anywhere (home, site, any office, etc.) and use my work phone to make calls on my mobile or a computer with a data connection.

That means that I can work from home workout needing a handset, it also allows me to be able to answer calls without my computer being on. Which can be useful if someone calls before I've had chance to log in.

The system that we use is scalable and would work from a few users up to thousands.

It's even hosted in the cloud so that we don't even need to have a site based server and even doing so costs us a lot less than a more traditional phone system.

With those sorts of advantages why would anyone not use that sort of system.

Yes it allows those with less honourable motives to play their trade, however I suspect that they would still be a problem regardless of the tech available to them.
 

py_megapixel

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Yes it allows those with less honourable motives to play their trade, however I suspect that they would still be a problem regardless of the tech available to them.
Indeed.

It's not exactly difficult to change numbers on an ordinary mobile phone (pick up a cheap PAYG sim and top it up with a few quid and you're good to go), and with the amount of money they're trying to extort from people I suspect they would probably still turn a profit even accounting from the increase in costs. I don't think anybody would advocate the removal of the SIM card system!
 

DerekC

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I think we oldies have to accept that the days of the dedicated landline are pretty much over and that VoIP will soon be universal. What needs to happen now is that phones (as for voice communication) get a lot smarter about telling you who is calling and allowing you to filter out calls that might be scam - the BT Call Guardian is the way to go, but there's no reason why all that functionality couldn't be done in your smartphone, as far as I can see - including a cloud-based directory which filters out dodgy caller IDs and tells you who is calling even if they are not in your contacts list. And if the caller withholds their details, they get blocked or diverted to voice message.
 

Howardh

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My late mother could never grasp how cheap phone calls had become and was convinced that any spam phone call had to be local and explicitly targeted at her and was frightened of being rude or even just putting the phone down as they "knew where she lived". I never succeeded in persuading her otherwise.

I usually let calls from unrecognised numbers go to the answerphone. The only problem is that doctors and hospitals never leave messages.

I used to volunteer for a local arts organisations and all my legit non-family calls were about that so I always answered the phone with the organisation's name. I could have great fun trying to sell concert tickets or advertising in our newsletter to the caller.
I don't pick up the phone if it shows a number - I let it go through to the answerphone. Scammers almost always have a (spoof) number. However, I know when my doctor calls, the number shows "withdrawn" so I know it's either the surgery or the hospital! So it gets answered!!
 

swt_passenger

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Had a new subject for a scam call today. Their intended “hook” was problems with my boiler maintenance contract.

I asked them what my make and model was, and which part did they change in 2017. Went quiet after that...
 
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Warranty on a washing machine is running out. Strange as I've never had a warranty on it and it's donkey's years old. We've also had the boiler warranty running out calls but a few years ago.
 

swt_passenger

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Warranty on a washing machine is running out. Strange as I've never had a warranty on it and it's donkey's years old. We've also had the boiler warranty running out calls but a few years ago.
I guess once they‘ve dome a full round of “Amazon prime“ or “Windows” to every possible number they have to go back to something else...
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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I have now in the last seven days had two different scam calls with exactly the same female American recorded voice. My policy is not to speak in response in answer to the call and after ten seconds, the inward call is always terminated.
 

MotCO

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Warranty on a washing machine is running out. Strange as I've never had a warranty on it and it's donkey's years old.

I had that as well. They said my washing machine was now 10 years old (it's older than that!), but when I asked what model it was, they ignored the question and went back to their script.
 

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