A scam phone calls and emails discussion.

[MarlowDonkey]

but given that most of the presentation numbers used by the fraudsters are real numbers,

Usually they only look like real numbers. If you dial back, you get the number not recognised message.

 

[peters]

Usually they only look like real numbers. If you dial back, you get the number not recognised message.

Be careful about dialing back. Some calls come from "non-standard" 07 numbers so if they connect the call won't be included in your inclusive minutes or charged as a normal call to a mobile.

 

[steamybrian]

I've got no-one with a similar phone number to me that I know, so given they seem to use these this is unlikely to happen to me, but given that most of the presentation numbers used by the fraudsters are real numbers, surely at some point they must get a number that is actually in the recipient's phone as it is a contact's number? I know if it says a friend has called you and the voice you get is robotic or some random person in India (even if you know quite a few people with similar accents who might be phoning you, you should be able to tell the difference) it is unlikely you'll think it is them, but I was just wondering if the presentation number matched, presumably it would still show up as the contact?

Confirming what Marlow Donkey has said above..
I will state that scam callers clone their telephone number which disguises their real number. After scammers have called me I have dialled 1471 and it has given me various numbers with different dialling codes ranging from Brighton to Northern Ireland as well as various countries abroad,
Whilst I cannot prove it but my guess is they all actually originate from the same country in Asia beginning with the letter I.... and ending in a.

 

[najaB]

but I was just wondering if the presentation number matched, presumably it would still show up as the contact?

Yes, it would.

Whilst I cannot prove it but my guess is they all actually originate from the same country in Asia beginning with the letter I.... and ending in a.

Indonesia?

 

[ABB125]

Yes, it would.
Indonesia?

ones got too many letters in that name...

(Yes, I hate the fact that I've deliberately missed out the apostrophe which should be there!)

 

[A Challenge]

ones got too many letters in that name...

(Yes, I hate the fact that I've deliberately missed out the apostrophe which should be there!)

All the correct letters and in the correct order though

Be careful about dialing back. Some calls come from "non-standard" 07 numbers so if they connect the call won't be included in your inclusive minutes or charged as a normal call to a mobile.

Not that I'm planning on doing this, but surely if there are only the last few digits different this can't be the case, as the band for for all numbers in an 07XXX would be the same (all mobile or all not actually)?

 

[najaB]

Not that I'm planning on doing this, but surely if there are only the last few digits different this can't be the case, as the band for for all numbers in an 07XXX would be the same (all mobile or all not actually)?

No! Not all 07xxx numbers are mobiles. Some are personal numbering and attract a higher rate and aren't normally covered by inclusive minutes in mobile service plans.

 

[87 027]

Missed call scams

If you receive a missed call on your mobile phone from a number you don't recognise, think twice before calling it back.

www.ofcom.org.uk

From the above:
Calls will typically be from a number beginning 070 or 076 (which look like mobile numbers but cost considerably more to call)

 

[peters]

Not that I'm planning on doing this, but surely if there are only the last few digits different this can't be the case, as the band for for all numbers in an 07XXX would be the same (all mobile or all not actually)?

Check the small print of your phone contract or PAYG terms, there's usually a section about non-standard 07 numbers alongside the premium call charges and the definition of a "non-standard 07" number varies between operators.

 

[najaB]

...and the definition of a "non-standard 07" number varies between operators.

On a point of pedantry, if by "non-standard 07 number" you mean the distinction between mobile numbering vs other purposes, then it's Ofcom that defines what numbers ranges are allocated to. You can find the top-level breakdown on page 10 of this document: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0013/102613/national-numbering-plan.pdf

What operators are free to decide is what types of calls are covered by their inclusive minutes (which might well be what you meant) - the point being that all operators will bill 070xx numbers as personal numbering, just some may choose to have calls to those numbers deducted from your inclusive minutes, others (most!) may choose to charge.

 

[Devonian]

The thing is, there's almost no way to stop spoofing. It would require a complete redesign of the telephone system.

There's currently no easy way to confirm that a number arriving into the UK PSTN network is from an originator who has the right to use it. A new certificate verification system is in place in the USA and Ofcom are looking, very slowly, into a similar system here, probably not to be implemented until the PSTN network is discontinued after 2025 - which is an opportunity for a redesign of this aspect of the telephone system.

However, it's relatively easy for an originating network to block invalid caller IDs from being transmitted, because they have a register of their customers and the numbers that they own: for example, BT certainly used to limit the caller ID on ISDN lines to number ranges owned by the customer, which would otherwise be rejected by the exchange, and VOIP provider Sipgate limit the CID to numbers they provide.

So it's possible, but highly unlikely without legislation and enforcement in every country.

...given that most of the presentation numbers used by the fraudsters are real numbers, surely at some point they must get a number that is actually in the recipient's phone as it is a contact's number? ...

Yup: I got a scam call purporting to come from my neighbour's number a few days ago, which happens to be an anagram of my number. The recent trend to base the spoofed caller ID on a number close to the number dialled makes them both more likely to be active phone numbers and more likely (thouh still unlikely) to be someone you know in your local area, particularly on smaller exchanges where the first two or three digits are the same for all subscribers' numbers.

 

[Lucan]

I don't understand the issue with spoofed numbers. I get plenty of scam calls but I have never taken any interest in the number they are calling from. It is pretty obvious they are scams. But even if I believed it was a genuine warning that my ISP was cutting me off, or my bank account was compromised, then I would phone those entities myself using their advertised number in a separate call, and not take any action within the first call. It is basic security to dial your bank/ISP etc yourself, using their advertised number, for any sensitive business.

Even if the scammer had gone to the trouble of spoofing my bank's number, it would not mean anything to me anyway. I don't keep numbers like that in my head. If they spoofed my kid's or a neighbour's numbers. I could soon tell them apart from a Indian's in a busy scam office. TBH, I don't keep those numbers in my head either.

If you ignore the call (as some here do), dialling 1471 later shows the caller number - which may be spoofed. Maybe it appears to be your bank's number (if you know it). But who presses the key to dial that number (a service which has an extra cost) rather than keying it in yourself (which does not)?

I understand that spoofing numbers are permitted so that people working for a company, but are out of office, can make the call appear to come from the office. Any calls for spoofing to be banned are resisted by those companies.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I don't understand the issue with spoofed numbers. I get plenty of scam calls but I have never taken any interest in the number they are calling from. It is pretty obvious they are scams.

Suppose the issue is partly to do with call blocking. Difficult to do successfully if the fraudsters keep changing / spoofing the number they are supposedly calling from.

 

[najaB]

I don't understand the issue with spoofed numbers. I get plenty of scam calls but I have never taken any interest in the number they are calling from. It is pretty obvious they are scams. But even if I believed it was a genuine warning that my ISP was cutting me off, or my bank account was comprimised, then I would phone those entities myself using their advertised number in a separate call, and not take any action within the first call. It is basic security to dial your bank/ISP etc yourself, using their advertised number, for any sensitive business.

That's exactly the education that I spoke of above:

Indeed, they will. Which is why telcos and regulators need to make people more aware that the presentation number is not a guarantee of identity.

 

[Gloster]

The only time I was requested (I can’t remember how the request arrived) to ring a number that looked in any way suspicious it was from HSBC. The following day I went into my local branch of HSBC and asked them to confirm that it was a genuine number, which they did by phoning it as it was not on their system. Slow and old-fashioned, but sure.

 

[Urobach]

I'm in real trouble everyone(!) - three voicemails left with automated voice about a legal case against my name, and to call someone in Connecticut about it or they'll proceed to do whatever.

020 3991 6112 all three times, unusual, I normally find they swap the numbers to beat the spam filter.

Irritating shirts.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Irritating shirts.

Predictive text auto correct at work there?

 

[Stan63]

I got an email today stating my google account was being moved from the UK to Russia and if I wanted to change this I had to click here. The only thing is that the email came in to an old Yahoo email address I rarely use and anything relating to google would be on my Gmail address.
Straight into the deleted items box for that one.

Stan

 

[Trackman]

Had the national insurance scam call today, it started with 'This is an emergency call about your national insurance' or something.
Spoofed with UK mobile number, same as my mobile number but last 2 digits different.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Good news. The expensive iPhone 7 that I don't ever remember ordering is apparently now on its way from Amazon. Can hardly wait!

Clearly, I should have pressed '1' to speak to an adviser and cancel the non-existent order.

The undoubtedly spoofed number was supposedly an 07696 xxxxxx mobile.

 

[najaB]

Good news. The expensive iPhone 7 that I don't ever remember ordering is apparently now on its way from Amazon. Can hardly wait!

I guess the order just took a loooong time to be processed!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

I guess the order just took a loooong time to be processed!

So long ago that I've obviously forgotten having placed the order! Must have been late 2016 (!)

 

[Lucan]

The expensive iPhone 7 that I don't ever remember ordering is apparently now on its way from Amazon.

I get messages like that about once a week, either about sports gear or "my" massive bank overdraft. But they seem intended for a guy who owned this mob phone number previously. I did text the senders about this a few times, but have given up trying. The upside is that I can assume any call or text is either a scam, or is about his sports gear orders or overdraft.

 

[PauloDavesi]

07532 722642 claims to be HMRC and they will commence a fraud case against you unless you "press 1" to speak to them.
You are connected on a low quality line with an Indian sounding operative with limited English.

Beware!

 

[PeterC]

Getting a regular call on my mobile, different 0203 number each time, claiming to be from Carphone Warehouse. Callers have such strong accents that they are about as comprehensible as a drunken Glaswegian.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Had the national insurance scam call today, it started with 'This is an emergency call about your national insurance' or something.
Spoofed with UK mobile number, same as my mobile number but last 2 digits different.

One of my neighbours also had this scam call, from a mobile phone. He still has his marbles all at home at the age of 84 and is well aware of scam calls and said that as the DWP still have not sent out their usual letter in March concerning the 2021/2022 state pension, he most certainly was not going to enter into any discussions on matters until Government departments get their act in order.

 

[Westcountryman]

One of my neighbours also had this scam call, from a mobile phone. He still has his marbles all at home at the age of 84 and is well aware of scam calls and said that as the DWP still have not sent out their usual letter in March concerning the 2021/2022 state pension, he most certainly was not going to enter into any discussions on matters until Government departments get their act in order.

The letters are going out. From what I have seen, they are probably being sent in surname alphabetical order.

 

[py_megapixel]

Over the past few days I've received several calls from unrecognised mobile numbers. Upon answering them the other end simply hangs up after a few seconds. I assume it's an automated system trying random numbers to see if they work and therefore build a list which they can subsequently sell on to scammers.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I've had no suspect calls in April and we're 8.5 days in. Can I go a whole month without receiving "Suspected Spam"/"Potential Fraud?" (Bearing in mind there are only 20 working days this month: similar to February most years!)

 

[py_megapixel]

I've had no suspect calls in April and we're 8.5 days in. Can I go a whole month without receiving "Suspected Spam"/"Potential Fraud?" (Bearing in mind there are only 20 working days this month: similar to February most years!)

I've never had my mobile phone (it's a Motorola one, so Android) flag anything as a potential scam, even if it obviously is... however I believe all of the scam calls I've had have been pretending to be from organisations that I haven't even given that particular number to.