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Accused of fare evasion for a period of 10 month

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nucega

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Hello everyone,

I have received a letter for TIL where states that I was stopped and failed to show a valid ticket. It mentions that I might have avoided the correct rail fare on other occasions (January to October). I travel to work every day and since I wanted to save a few pennies (very stupid of me) I used to buy a ticket for the station before the one I had to stop because there are no barriers. Now, all they said in the letter is true. However, I think about the evidencies. In what evidencies do the make this accusations? Can they see in your train app the transactions of your daily tickets? as far as I am concerned CCTV only keeps their footages for 28-31 days. I know I am in the wrong and I should be as honest as posible however I am concern about the fine I will have to pay as I counted how many times I have done and is over a 100 times. I would never be able to pay more than £200, Also the consequences of my DBS being affected by this matter will be a life changing for my career. Should I be totally honest or should I be a bit loose on dates and times?

Thank you very much in advance.
 
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Mcr Warrior

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Welcome to the forum.

Unfortunately, most train company fraud investigation teams can, and do, look at individuals' ticket purchasing histories when investigating situations such as this.

Multiple instances of short-faring, if proven, are likely to be expensive. Could end up costing you a lot, lot more than £200. :(

I'll leave it to the forum's 'Disputes and Prosecutions' experts to further advise as to what options are still open to you to try to mitigate the unenviable situation you now find yourself in.
 

Wethebest838

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Your best bet is to contact a solicitor in my honest opinion.

They can get your whole Trainline or any ticket purchase site data from periods dating anytime.

Potentially, if an out of court settlement can be arranged then you will be looking at a hefty sum as well as admin costs. I would start saving, not in a horrible way but this is going to be expensive.
 

Haywain

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Based on what you’ve told us, you need to start saving up. Getting this resolved is going to be expensive, whether a court case is involved or not. You are not going to get out of this for £200.
 

nucega

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Thank you both @Mcr Warrior and @Wethebest838 for your prompt answers. I am aware that is going to be expensive. In my mind I want to make up excuses but they probably have an idea of suspicion hence why the letter. May I comment that some times I have stopped at the right station and walk instead, I know it sounds dodgy.
I have written this so far:

Thank you for your letter of 6th March.

I was stopped by your officer on 3rd November 2021 and I failed to show the valid ticket. I am sorry to admit that after checking my online app transactions with The Trainline I realised that I have committed this mistake on other occasions.

I accept that this sort of behaviour is damaging to the railway, and I understand your determination to ensure that people who do evade fares in this way are brought to justice. This notwithstanding, I am asking you to make an exception in my case; I am truly sorry to have acted in this way and as a result of any convictions there will be personal consequences for me beyond any fine or recompense.

Therefore, I ask if you will see fit to settle the matter outside of court. I am happy to pay any outstanding fares due, plus a contribution towards your costs in dealing with this matter. I would be grateful if you could let me know by reply if this is possible, and the next steps for us to take to close the matter and bring it to a satisfactory conclusion.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

(this letter has been copied from a different threat)
 

Wethebest838

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Based on what you’ve told us, you need to start saving up. Getting this resolved is going to be expensive, whether a court case is involved or not. You are not going to get out of this for £200.
Agreed.

Regardless you are looking at £100+ admin fee on top and they will literally want every penny back. They call the shots now and they have every right to prosecute whether it be RoRa act (a criminal record for a year) or byelaw (non recordable, spent instantly) or even worse, under the Fraud act which doesn’t happen much but they may have enough evidence to do this if it’s over 100 times.

If they agree an out of court settlement you must know they do not accept instalments.
 

nucega

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Based on what you’ve told us, you need to start saving up. Getting this resolved is going to be expensive, whether a court case is involved or not. You are not going to get out of this for £200.
thank you for taking your time. Yes, I am aware of that.
 

Wethebest838

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In my mind I want to make up excuses but they probably have an idea of suspicion hence why the letter. May I comment that some times I have stopped at the right station and walk instead, I know it sounds dodgy.
They have heard every excuse but in my opinion, it’s worth mentioning. That is valid and some people I know do get lifts to stations closer from friends and stuff.
 

Fokx

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I want to make up excuses but they probably have an idea of suspicion hence why the letter. May I comment that some times I have stopped at the right station and walk instead, I know it sounds dodgy.

Don’t incriminate yourself further.
 

dakta

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I'll leave the train company communications to the experienced hands but giving that the case against you seems quite strong and well, accurate - assuming the outcome is inevitable going to be expensive may be worth looking at financial options such as loans, friends, family etc as the train operating company can call the shots now these may give you a bit more breathing room/terms whilst meeting the obligations that seem likely to follow.

It's not going to be clear for a while how expensive this would be though likely to be a fair bit - rather than ' I would never be able to pay more than £200' I think one need to be looking at how you could if need arise.
 

nucega

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Agreed.

Regardless you are looking at £100+ admin fee on top and they will literally want every penny back. They call the shots now and they have every right to prosecute whether it be RoRa act (a criminal record for a year) or byelaw (non recordable, spent instantly) or even worse, under the Fraud act which doesn’t happen much but they may have enough evidence to do this if it’s over 100 times.

If they agree an out of court settlement you must know they do not accept instalments.
Thank for the info, I really appreciate. What would happen if I couldn’t pay whatever amount they ask for? Thank you
 

skyhigh

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May I comment that some times I have stopped at the right station and walk instead, I know it sounds dodgy.
If you haven't actually done that lying about it will only land you in much much bigger trouble if you're found out, i.e. they could look to prosecute you for fraud, rather than for less serious offences under the Regulation of Railways act - which will likely ruin any credit/mortgage applications, come up on DBS checks, lead to bank accounts being closed etc

I realised that I have committed this mistake
You need to realise that you did not make a mistake. You took the calculated risk of paying for short tickets to save yourself money. You have no credibility saying you bought short tickets over 100 times by mistake!

Also the consequences of my DBS being affected by this matter will be a life changing for my career. Should I be totally honest or should I be a bit loose on dates and times?
If you lie and are found out this will end very badly for you. You need to take the view that they know everything you have done, and be honest.
 

nucega

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If you lie and are found out this will end very badly for you. You need to take the view that they know everything you have done, and be honest.
I totally agree with you on this. I needed to hear that actually. Just sick worried about the fine but like someone else said I could get a loan.
 

Wethebest838

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Thank for the info, I really appreciate. What would happen if I couldn’t pay whatever amount they ask for? Thank you
Then sadly, it go before magistrates where you will receive a criminal record depending on what they charge you with. Then, you will also get a fine which is based on your income and that can be paid in instalments.

I’m no expert in law but I highly doubt this will fall under byelaws.
 

nucega

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Thank you all for your suggestions. I will do the right thing and be as honest as possible. I will try to update a draft letter here in case (hopefully not) someone needs it in the future. I couldn’t see myself lying to this people and then had to carry on the lie in court. Have a good week all.
 

Hadders

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Welcome to the forum!

My advice would be when in a hole stop digging. You have already been caught once by the railway avoiding your fare and it would be absolute madness to be untruthful in your reply to them.

You might want to include the following in your reply to the letter you have received:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Make sure your reply is short and concise, don't give a sob story - they've heard it all before. Most train companies are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. There is no guarantee of this and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court.

Clearly an agravating factor in your case is the length of time this has potentially been going on for, and the train company is bound to take this into account in deciding how to proceed. I would be very careful not to incrininate yourself further in your reply although do bear in mind that if you have done this previously the train company will quickly uncover a pattern of behaviour from their subject access requests.

If you are offered a settlement the amount varies depending on the train company and circumstances but tend to be a few hundred pounds plus the outstanding fares, to be blunt there is no way this is going to be less than £200. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

I'm not a legal expert but if the case ends up in court (either because they decide to go straight to couret, or you are offered an administrative settlement and don't pay it) a fine becomes payable immediately on conviction. If you don't pay then you might be able to arrange a payment plan with the court, ultimately they would seek an attachment of earnings order.

Feel free to post a copy of your draft reply here and forum members will be happy to proof read.
 

Wethebest838

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Thank you all for your suggestions. I will do the right thing and be as honest as possible. I will try to update a draft letter here in case (hopefully not) someone needs it in the future. I couldn’t see myself lying to this people and then had to carry on the lie in court. Have a good week all.
Yeah, do all that and I think you would have a good chance :)

Just a note, TIL are ruthless and difficult so expect pushback first time but they do come around.
 

AlterEgo

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Thank for the info, I really appreciate. What would happen if I couldn’t pay whatever amount they ask for? Thank you
They will take you to court, convict you of a criminal offence, and you will be ordered to pay compensation by an enforceable court order.

If you can’t afford a one-off settlement fee of whatever you dodged plus £100-200 admin fee on top, you should prepare to be prosecuted.
 

nucega

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They will take you to court, convict you of a criminal offence, and you will be ordered to pay compensation by an enforceable court order.

If you can’t afford a one-off settlement fee of whatever you dodged plus £100-200 admin fee on top, you should prepare to be prosecuted.
I have calculated how much the difference between the tickets is and it comes up a sum of more or less £160 that I saved . Definitely not worth it. I will keep you all posted.
 

WesternLancer

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I have written this so far:

Thank you for your letter of 6th March.

I was stopped by your officer on 3rd November 2021 and I failed to show the valid ticket. I am sorry to admit that after checking my online app transactions with The Trainline I realised that I have committed this mistake on other occasions.

I accept that this sort of behaviour is damaging to the railway, and I understand your determination to ensure that people who do evade fares in this way are brought to justice. This notwithstanding, I am asking you to make an exception in my case; I am truly sorry to have acted in this way and as a result of any convictions there will be personal consequences for me beyond any fine or recompense.

Therefore, I ask if you will see fit to settle the matter outside of court. I am happy to pay any outstanding fares due, plus a contribution towards your costs in dealing with this matter. I would be grateful if you could let me know by reply if this is possible, and the next steps for us to take to close the matter and bring it to a satisfactory conclusion.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully,

(this letter has been copied from a different threat)
Small point - but I would not call it a 'mistake' perhaps call it an 'error'.

Don't incriminate yourself further - I am sure they will examine their records and put it to you how often you have done this and how much they want to settle for after all. Do not lie about any of it, but don't admit to more than you need to.
 
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transportphoto

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Thank you all for your suggestions. I will do the right thing and be as honest as possible. I will try to update a draft letter here in case (hopefully not) someone needs it in the future. I couldn’t see myself lying to this people and then had to carry on the lie in court. Have a good week all.
You do not have to say anything but it may harm your defence if you fail to mention when questioned something which you may later rely on in court.

I’d strongly recommend you seek a criminal defence solicitor to assist you - you don’t know what evidence Chiltern has got against you (beyond access to your purchase history).

Offences need to be proved beyond reasonable doubt in a criminal court, a solicitor may advise that it may be in your interest to refrain from commenting at this stage rather than admitting to multiple offences.

This being said, the solicitor may advise you to assume that the prosecutors know everything and as such to be honest and fully interact with the process with the view of reducing the sentence.

Whatever you do, do not lie.
 

Dai Corner

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I have calculated how much the difference between the tickets is and it comes up a sum of more or less £160 that I saved . Definitely not worth it. I will keep you all posted.
Chiltern might determine that you owe them for Anytime singles between Warwick Parkway and Leamington Spa rather than the difference between the fares you paid and what you should have paid.
 

Haywain

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Then, you will also get a fine which is based on your income and that can be paid in instalments.
I don’t think it should be taken for granted that an option for paying in instalments will be offered, or granted if requested.
 

AlterEgo

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I don’t think it should be taken for granted that an option for paying in instalments will be offered, or granted if requested.
Court fines are often paid in instalments, and even by way of attachment order if necessary. The court should ascertain the defendant’s means when imposing a fine, and this is separate to the compensation for the fares avoided.
 

some bloke

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the consequences of my DBS being affected by this matter will be a life changing for my career.
Then it is wise to see the matter in proportion. How might you view this in ten or twenty years' time? Might you regret getting advice from anonymous people on the internet, and wish you'd borrowed money for a solicitor?

What kind of work do you do, or what would you have to tell a professional regulator or employer? Do you need to tell them at the stage of charge or conviction? Are you sure about the likely effects on your career, or what the typical attitudes of employers and/or the regulator are to this kind of offence? If you're not sure, the regulator's website and your employment contract could be among the starting points.

Are you a member of a union? Can they help with advice on the above, or with some free legal advice?
 
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Haywain

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Court fines are often paid in instalments, and even by way of attachment order if necessary. The court should ascertain the defendant’s means when imposing a fine, and this is separate to the compensation for the fares avoided.
I appreciate this but I am just saying that it is a possibility rather than a certainty.
 

district

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If you are going to tell them a further lie about walking from the station you had the ticket to on some occasions (which is a terrible idea by the way), then you should not post that on here.

You have given enough details in these posts for TIL to identify who you are and what your case is, and it is known that prosecution teams for TOCs do look through these forums.
 

Fawkes Cat

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If you are going to tell them a further lie about walking from the station you had the ticket to on some occasions (which is a terrible idea by the way), then you should not post that on here.

You have given enough details in these posts for TIL to identify who you are and what your case is, and it is known that prosecution teams for TOCs do look through these forums.
Google maps says that Leamington Spa and Warwick Parkway stations are 3.9 miles apart if you walk, with a walking time of over an hour.

That being the case, it strikes me as unlikely that anyone would get off at Leamington if their final destination was nearer Warwick Parkway: doing it at the start and end of their work shift would add an hour to the commute even if the final destination is only a little nearer Warwick Parkway than Leamington. And I expect that the railway will think the same.

So if you did occasionally get off where your ticket expired and walk, by all means say so, but be as precise as possible with the dates when you did it, and explain why those days were different from days when you took the train the whole way.
 

AlterEgo

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Google maps says that Leamington Spa and Warwick Parkway stations are 3.9 miles apart if you walk, with a walking time of over an hour.

That being the case, it strikes me as unlikely that anyone would get off at Leamington if their final destination was nearer Warwick Parkway: doing it at the start and end of their work shift would add an hour to the commute even if the final destination is only a little nearer Warwick Parkway than Leamington. And I expect that the railway will think the same.

So if you did occasionally get off where your ticket expired and walk, by all means say so, but be as precise as possible with the dates when you did it, and explain why those days were different from days when you took the train the whole way.
I very much doubt the railway, or any magistrate, will believe any of this. I’d be inclined not to mention it if I were the OP. The end result of the case will be that on every occasion the railway will attempt to claim back the fare. They’re not going to accept some figure like “yeah maybe like 20 times I actually did get off at that station and inexplicably walked four miles to work” from someone who is both provably dishonest and is attempting to save money, again, during the investigation process.
 
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