Advance ticket for service no longer scheduled to run

[Par]

Looking for a bit of advice please.

We hold advance tickets between Nottingham and Manchester for next Friday August 6th. Depart Nottingham 19.37, arrive Manchester Piccadilly 21.35. These tickets were purchased through Red Spotted Hanky on May 15th.

Checking the schedule, I cannot see this train, with the last EMR train on the route that day departing Nottingham at 18.46.

Obviously if I hadn’t checked, we would have arrived at the station after the last EMR train of the day had departed.

What are our options here?

 

[SargeNpton]

As your nominated train has been cancelled since the ticket was purchased I'd suggest that East Midlands would have to accept it on the 1846 ex Nottingham, or give you a full refund.

There's a later connection changing at Sheffield, but as the second leg is a TransPennine service your EMR only ticket might not be accepted on that unless the two TOCs had an agreement for this circumstance.

 

[Starmill]

If it suits you to travel on the preceeding EMR train then you may. If it suits you not to travel by train and refund this ticket for free then you may do that also.

If neither suits you then you may still travel, but it may be more complicated. EMR should arrange for you to be carried on another operator's service if necessary. For example you could get the 2016 to Stoke-on-Trent and then they would arrange for you to use the CrossCountry service from there to Manchester Piccadilly at 2144. Alternatively they have a 2036 service to Sheffield and then there's a 2211 TransPennine Express service to Manchester Piccadilly. The staff at the station should know what you can do. If there were no further train services they would need to provide road transport. Or they might in theory ask you to travel on the EMR service to Sheffield and then book you a taxi from there to Manchester. I'd suggest it's most likely they will have arranged ticket acceptance for the TransPennine Express service.

 

[Par]

Thanks for the replies.

The 18.46 isn’t really suitable, so we will have to go for one of the later connecting services.

This surely has to be on EMR to sort out, we’ve bought the tickets in good faith and they (for whatever reason) have subsequently cancelled the service.

 

[Watershed]

Thanks for the replies.

The 18.46 isn’t really suitable, so we will have to go for one of the later connecting services.

This surely has to be on EMR to sort out, we’ve bought the tickets in good faith and they (for whatever reason) have subsequently cancelled the service.

Yes, they have cancelled it as part of their reduced timetable to deal with a lack of traincrew.

If you do go for a later train and end up sufficiently delayed, you will also be entitled to claim compensation.

 

[thejuggler]

It is for EMR to 'sort out' and Starmill above has shown how they may do so.

You can either be proactive and try and get a solution now, or (and its what I would do), turn up for the service you are booked on and let EMR sort it out then.

If you are delayed don't forget delay repay.

 

[Starmill]

Exactly. If you speak to the staff at Nottingham when you get there I'm sure they'll advise. You are likely to be asked to take the 2036 to Sheffield I think.

 

[Par]

Yes, we’ll do the latter. I’m sure it won’t be an issue and they’ll arrange acceptance with other operators (if they haven’t already done so).

Thanks again

 

[JB_B]

The OP's intended train was cancelled 3 weeks ago. Do any retailers make efforts to contact advance ticket holders in this situation?

 

[Haywain]

Thanks for the replies.

The 18.46 isn’t really suitable, so we will have to go for one of the later connecting services.

This surely has to be on EMR to sort out, we’ve bought the tickets in good faith and they (for whatever reason) have subsequently cancelled the service.

It is on EMR but they have no knowledge of you because the tickets were bought from RSH. It may help to proactively contact EMR in advance.

 

[STINT47]

Sadly EMR will not pay delay repay as your train has not been canceled (it's been removed from the timetable) and they will allow you to travel on the next service or get a refund.

I had the same scenario, purchased a ticket in advance and they removed the train from the timetable. Traveled on the next service, was delayed but the delay claim was rejected as they had published a new timetable.

They did point out in their email that they can charge people for a new ticket as they're original ticket becomes invalid when the train was removed. I could get a refund before I traveled but once I started travelling I was at risk of having to purchase a new ticket and also not getting a refund for the first ticket as I was not on my booked train.

Really poor way to treat customers in my opinion.

 

[Mainline421]

Sadly EMR will not pay delay repay as your train has not been canceled (it's been removed from the timetable) and they will allow you to travel on the next service or get a refund.

I had the same scenario, purchased a ticket in advance and they removed the train from the timetable. Traveled on the next service, was delayed but the delay claim was rejected as they had published a new timetable.

They did point out in their email that they can charge people for a new ticket as they're original ticket becomes invalid when the train was removed. I could get a refund before I traveled but once I started travelling I was at risk of having to purchase a new ticket and also not getting a refund for the first ticket as I was not on my booked train.

Really poor way to treat customers in my opinion.

And also completely incorrect. You should dispute this and request the compensation owed, your ticket remains valid on the closest possible journey after the times booked (or before at your discretion usually).

 

[Bletchleyite]

And also completely incorrect. You should dispute this and request the compensation owed, your ticket remains valid on the closest possible journey after the times booked (or before at your discretion usually).

Agreed. DR is payable based on the timetable at the time the ticket was purchased, certainly if you purchased with an itinerary which forms part of the contract.

The rest of it about a new ticket is utterly preposterous and would not for a minute stand up in Court.

 

[Hadders]

Sadly EMR will not pay delay repay as your train has not been canceled (it's been removed from the timetable) and they will allow you to travel on the next service or get a refund.

I had the same scenario, purchased a ticket in advance and they removed the train from the timetable. Traveled on the next service, was delayed but the delay claim was rejected as they had published a new timetable.

They did point out in their email that they can charge people for a new ticket as they're original ticket becomes invalid when the train was removed. I could get a refund before I traveled but once I started travelling I was at risk of having to purchase a new ticket and also not getting a refund for the first ticket as I was not on my booked train.

Really poor way to treat customers in my opinion.

This is incorrect. If you have purchased a ticket for a specific train and have an itinerary then delay repay is due if you travel on a later train. I'm not surprised that EMR initially rejected your claim but an escalation should yield a successful outcome.

 

[Starmill]

Sadly EMR will not pay delay repay as your train has not been canceled (it's been removed from the timetable)

Their very strange definition of the word 'cancelled' might not include this circumstance, but mine certainly does! As would most reasonable people's I think.

 

[yorkie]

Sadly EMR will not pay delay repay as your train has not been canceled (it's been removed from the timetable) and they will allow you to travel on the next service or get a refund.

I had the same scenario, purchased a ticket in advance and they removed the train from the timetable. Traveled on the next service, was delayed but the delay claim was rejected as they had published a new timetable.

They did point out in their email that they can charge people for a new ticket as they're original ticket becomes invalid when the train was removed. I could get a refund before I traveled but once I started travelling I was at risk of having to purchase a new ticket and also not getting a refund for the first ticket as I was not on my booked train.

Really poor way to treat customers in my opinion.

You are right to say they may attempt to get out of paying Delay Repay but they are still contractually obliged to pay it.

Incidentally a customer was due to travel from Crewe to Sheffield via Uttoxeter last night; the train via Uttoxeter was cancelled and EMR allowed travel via Stockport, which meant the customer actually arrived early. This was sorted out on the day.

EMR said to speak to station staff to endorse the ticket; Avanti station staff said they could not endorse anything but the customer could simply travel. The customer did this and had no problems.

There is no guarantee a train company will act correctly when disruption occurs, but if they don't, we can help advise on how to get them to put things right.

This is incorrect. If you have purchased a ticket for a specific train and have an itinerary then delay repay is due if you travel on a later train. I'm not surprised that EMR initially rejected your claim but an escalation should yield a successful outcome.

Agreed

And if EMR refuse, I would be going to the Rail Ombudsman next.

Incidentally both my latest DR claims have had to be escalated to customer services within the relevant TOCs. Delay Repay is often difficult to actually get, so you have to allocate time for appeals and letter writing.

@STINT47 please create a new thread so we can help with your issue (if it occured relatively recently) and link us to it here

They did point out in their email that they can charge people for a new ticket as the original ticket becomes invalid when the train was removed.

This is a disgraceful thing for EMR to say; it would be a breach of contract and consumer law if they did that.

 

[STINT47]

Thank you for your replies. In the end I decided to let the matter drop as it's not worth the hassle for the amount of money involved. Perhaps this is what the TOCS hope people will do.

 

[Watershed]

Thank you for your replies. In the end I decided to let the matter drop as it's not worth the hassle for the amount of money involved. Perhaps this is what the TOCS hope people will do.

It's exactly what they hope to achieve by having such policies!

Corporately they know full well that the majority of people will just grumble. So even if they have to 'pay off' a few people who know what their rights are, and are prepared to enforce them, they are still better off overall to have this approach.