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Advance ticket validity on SWT

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DelW

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Next month I'm going from Surrey to Liverpool for a long weekend, travelling on first-class advance singles each way, route via London. On Virgin I'm restricted to specified seats on specified trains, as usual for advances. The tickets also state specified trains on SWT, though of course without seat reservations as none exist on those trains.

On the return, on a Monday afternoon, the times give me a very leisurely cross-London transfer, arriving Euston at 14:00 and departing Waterloo at 15:15, so I'm quite likely to arrive at Waterloo in time for the previous train at 14:45. So my question is, would a ticket inspector be likely to give me grief if I arrived in time and caught the earlier train? Neither is in the peak and I would expect the 14:45 to be a bit quieter if anything (they are both Portsmouth stoppers).

(Outbound, the connection is only 54min and as I need to be on the correct Virgin train, I wouldn't want to cut it much finer than that.)

Any advice welcome.
 
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Muzer

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Though it can't hurt to ask the guard (before you board of course).
 

DelW

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Though it can't hurt to ask the guard (before you board of course).

True, but the problem with that is you have to go through the barrier to ask, and you're stuck if he refuses. I've had that scenario at Waterloo once before, went through the barrier, train I wanted was at the far end beyond a parked 444, by the time I got there the doors had closed and I had to come back to the gateline and find someone to explain to and let me back out.

If it's likely that I could hit trouble, I'd sooner just find somewhere for a pint while I wait.
 
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bb21

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The ticket should work the gates, and if you don't want to get back behind the gateline, you can always walk around the back of Boots to access platforms in the other half of the station.
 

DelW

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In the end, rather than risk a problem on the 14:45, I used the 40 minutes I had spare to sample the (relatively) new Waterloo Tap, under one of the arches of the Charing Cross viaduct just northwest of York Road.

In my experience there are quite often no ticket checks made on the Portsmouth Direct, but in this case the guard on the 15:15 did carry out a check after we left Clapham Junction. Of course I have no way of knowing whether the guard on the 14:45 had done so as well.

Thanks to those who advised.
 
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gray1404

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It depends who you have been given a counted place reservation or if you were merely given suggested trains on your booking confirmation. If you had been given actual counted place reservations as part of your tickets for the SWT leg, then you must stick to those trains. If not though you are free to use any suitable connecting services.
 

DelW

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Even if the guard lets you travel what if you hit problems with the gateline staff at the destination?

In my case there are no barriers at my destination station so not an issue.

It depends who you have been given a counted place reservation or if you were merely given suggested trains on your booking confirmation. If you had been given actual counted place reservations as part of your tickets for the SWT leg, then you must stick to those trains. If not though you are free to use any suitable connecting services.

There are no numbered seats on SWT services, but the advance ticket validity which covered both Virgin and SWT trains stated 'valid on booked train only'. (There were specified seats on the Virgin trains each way).
 

gray1404

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Assuming your ticket was printed in the old style: Did you reserve a reservation ticket for the SWT service? I know you will not have been given an actual seat but you might have been given a reservation ticket containing the details of the STW service. It would have had "Coach ** Seat **"

Or if your ticket was printed in the new style:
Were the times of your SWT leg printed on the ticket or was it just the Virgin leg?

Perhaps you could advise?
 

DelW

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They were new-style tickets, one per direction, with no separate reservation coupon. Each was printed with train time and seat on Virgin, and train time only on SWT.

That's what caught me out - IIRC, previously on journeys like that, I've had old-style tickets which don't mention times, and separate coupons with train and seat reservations covering the Virgin sectors only. That left me free to choose any SWT service to suit. It's a pity that the change of ticket type has reduced the flexibility for the passenger.

I also think the new-style ones are extremely hard to read - the train time data is in such small print that I suspect the guards don't often read it anyway. A couple of years ago, travelling from Euston to Chester in first class on Virgin, I accidentally handed the TM a standard class ticket for the next sector of my trip (on ATW from Chester to Bangor) and it was returned to me without comment - I only noticed when I went to put it away. And that was with the old-style tickets.
 
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extendedpaul

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I've encountered a similar situation with southeastern, over an hour allowed to get from Paddington to St Pancras International for service to Rainham. I was faced with a 45 minute wait at St Pancras for my booked service.

I explained at the gateline that I had not requested travel on the booked train and did I really have to wait an extra 30 minutes to complete my journey. I was told I could catch the next train. The on train conductor also confirmed that passengers are not expected to wait on a connecting service so full marks to southeastern for once for a commonsense approach !
 

swt_passenger

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They were new-style tickets, one per direction, with no separate reservation coupon. Each was printed with train time and seat on Virgin, and train time only on SWT.

That's what caught me out - IIRC, previously on journeys like that, I've had old-style tickets which don't mention times, and separate coupons with train and seat reservations covering the Virgin sectors only. That left me free to choose any SWT service to suit. It's a pity that the change of ticket type has reduced the flexibility for the passenger.

It isn't to do with the new ticket type.

SWT have had counted place reservations for a few years, well before the format changed. It depends on the service, the destination, and possibly even the day of the week. Someone once reported that they had unusually been given a 'booked train only' reservation to Portsmouth, IIRC it turned out it was because engineering works had put them on a Poole/Portsmouth splitting train - and that particular service included reservations.
 

DelW

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I've encountered a similar situation with southeastern, over an hour allowed to get from Paddington to St Pancras International for service to Rainham. I was faced with a 45 minute wait at St Pancras for my booked service.

I explained at the gateline that I had not requested travel on the booked train and did I really have to wait an extra 30 minutes to complete my journey. I was told I could catch the next train. The on train conductor also confirmed that passengers are not expected to wait on a connecting service so full marks to southeastern for once for a commonsense approach !

Ah, that's interesting, maybe I should have tried that yesterday. I was on Waterloo concourse by 14:25, so plenty of time for the 14:45 let alone the 15:15, but by then I'd resigned myself to a wait (and a beer of course :)).

The connecting times do seem pointlessly long, I normally reckon about 20 minutes between Waterloo concourse and Euston concourse, and I've walked it in around 35min in the past.
 

DelW

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It isn't to do with the new ticket type.

SWT have had counted place reservations for a few years, well before the format changed. It depends on the service, the destination, and possibly even the day of the week. Someone once reported that they had unusually been given a 'booked train only' reservation to Portsmouth, IIRC it turned out it was because engineering works had put them on a Poole/Portsmouth splitting train - and that particular service included reservations.

I've never before encountered that on the Portsmouth Direct stoppers though.

When I book advances on GWR (starting from / returning to Guildford) I get a reservation coupon for the main line (beyond Reading) but just 'and connecting services' between Guildford and Reading. That gives me freedom to choose a connection time at RDG, depending on whether or not s visit to the Three Guineas is desirable.
 

swt_passenger

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I've never before encountered that on the Portsmouth Direct stoppers though.

SWT now offer their own Advance fares between Waterloo and Portsmouth, so will now have reservation systems and quotas in place for them, and that will affect longer distance service where they were previously 'and connections'.

The connection times between Euston and Waterloo are calculated for the worst case platforms and choice of underground route. Waterloo/Euston is certainly not unusual in this respect, all inter-terminal transfer times are bloated in this way - presumably so that they work for every passenger including a first timer with luggage and a pushchair or whatever...
 

DelW

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SWT now offer their own Advance fares between Waterloo and Portsmouth, so will now have reservation systems and quotas in place for them, and that will affect longer distance service where they were previously 'and connections'.

Ah, I hadn't realised that - last time I looked (quite a while ago), IIRC advances were only available between Waterloo and somewhere like Brockenhurst and points west. I wonder whether First/MTR will offer shorter distance advances as well.
 

paul1609

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Ah, that's interesting, maybe I should have tried that yesterday. I was on Waterloo concourse by 14:25, so plenty of time for the 14:45 let alone the 15:15, but by then I'd resigned myself to a wait (and a beer of course :)).

The connecting times do seem pointlessly long, I normally reckon about 20 minutes between Waterloo concourse and Euston concourse, and I've walked it in around 35min in the past.

You'd be hard pushed to walk train to train in 35 minutes at that time of day in my experience! i reckon more like an hour!
 

gray1404

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Right, as the actual train time was printed on the ticket for the SWT service then it means that you had what is known as a counted place reservation. This is when you have been given a "place" on the train for advance ticket issuing purposes but no specific seat. You therefore needed to travel (as I believe you did) on the SWT services printed on your ticket.

Had the SWT train times not been printed on your ticket then you would have been free to catch any suitable connection.
 

swt_passenger

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Ah, I hadn't realised that - last time I looked (quite a while ago), IIRC advances were only available between Waterloo and somewhere like Brockenhurst and points west. I wonder whether First/MTR will offer shorter distance advances as well.

I'm assuming they will, and the megatrain system to some stations will be binned. It was only when I mentioned megatrain a few weeks ago (since the franchise decision) that one of the SWT insiders who posts here mentioned that 'normal' advances were now available to more places on the SWT network, I can't find that 'west of Brockenhurst' map anymore, either.
 

DelW

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You'd be hard pushed to walk train to train in 35 minutes at that time of day in my experience! i reckon more like an hour!

On the occasion I timed it, I think I took concourse exit to concourse entrance. It's only around 2 miles, and my normal pace based on an e-trex is about 3.5mph, so even with the wait for Euston Road lights it's not too hard. It was early evening in November which helped.
 

extendedpaul

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When searching for an advance ticket via National Rail Enquiries from Kent to S.Wales, I am booked on trains which allow 69 minutes to transfer between St Pancras Intl and Paddington.

However, if I use the advance search facility to request less time to cross London the transfer time is then reduced to 39 minutes and I arrive at Newport 30 minutes earlier. From past experience I regard 39 minutes as adequate time for the transfer and 69 minutes excessive.

Both allocated services are printed on the ticket so if there is a delay en route to Paddington I should be covered.

Might this provide a solution to excessive cross London transfer times ??
 
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wibble

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I'm assuming they will, and the megatrain system to some stations will be binned. It was only when I mentioned megatrain a few weeks ago (since the franchise decision) that one of the SWT insiders who posts here mentioned that 'normal' advances were now available to more places on the SWT network, I can't find that 'west of Brockenhurst' map anymore, either.

Your insider's telling you fibs!
 

swt_passenger

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No more Megatrain/bus from 5th August involving SWT trains as part of the journey.

Which is exactly as I expected, thanks.

Anyone know if they have they not been booking beyond Aug 5th for a while, or are some people going to have to be refunded?
 

wibble

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Which is exactly as I expected, thanks.

Anyone know if they have they not been booking beyond Aug 5th for a while, or are some people going to have to be refunded?

I don't think they allow bookings that far in advance - furthest appears to be 1 July.
 

extendedpaul

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Which is exactly as I expected, thanks.

Anyone know if they have they not been booking beyond Aug 5th for a while, or are some people going to have to be refunded?

Megatrain tickets are usually released exactly 45 days ahead of travel, one day's journeys at a time and they're currently only up to July 1st so definitely none sold for rail travel after August 5th. This also applies to Megabus Plus routes like London to York, and East Midland Trains journeys via Megabus as well as SWT.
 

MikeWh

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I don't think they allow bookings that far in advance - furthest appears to be 1 July.

When I booked Megatrain to Southampton the furthest available was 45 days. This was great for me as the 45th date was the day I wanted and I got £1 tickets.
 

swt_passenger

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Oh right, then a 45 day limit means there shouldn't really be any problems.

Am I right in thinking there was at least one incident (quite a while ago) where there were megatrain tickets sold for something that wasn't running because of engineering works?
 
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