Advice on using a forged railcard

[arsenal123abc]

I have been caught using a railcard that had a photo of myself screenshotted over. The inspector took my details, took photos of my id and the railcard and all my details down. There is clear fraudulent intention here and I am very much aware of the severity of the consequences. The inspector also told me anything I lied about could be used against me in court. This was a one time act of desperation rather then intentional malice and I am wondering what the likelihood of avoiding a criminal record are here. Is there anyway this could be settled through a fine or given the details is it clear cut that this looks like something I shall be receiving a criminal record for. Is there any hope for this situation?

 

[Puffing Devil]

This is Fraud by false representation and despite your protestations, the train company is unlikely to believe that it's a one-off occurrence, unless you have irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

I would suggest that a court visit is probable and that the most likely outcome would be a fine.

There is little to be done until you hear from the train company when you can attempt to negotiate an out of court settlement.

You may want to engage a lawyer as you have correctly identified a criminal record for fraud can be severely career limiting.

 

[AlbertBeale]

I have been caught using a railcard that had a photo of myself screenshotted over. The inspector took my details, took photos of my id and the railcard and all my details down. There is clear fraudulent intention here and I am very much aware of the severity of the consequences. The inspector also told me anything I lied about could be used against me in court. This was a one time act of desperation rather then intentional malice and I am wondering what the likelihood of avoiding a criminal record are here. Is there anyway this could be settled through a fine or given the details is it clear cut that this looks like something I shall be receiving a criminal record for. Is there any hope for this situation?

If you got a fine, that would mean a criminal record. Any punishment a court gives - fine, imprisonment, community service, whatever - is only done if you're convicted in the first place (ie found guilty or plead guilty). If you're convicted, you - by definition - have a criminal record. However, depending on what the sentence was, the record can be "spent" and become irrelevant for many (though not all) purposes after a given length of time.

To avoid a criminal record you have to either not get charged with an offence (sounds unlikely in this instance; though others here might suggest what - if anything - you could do to try to avoid it*), or, if charged, deny the offence and be acquitted by the court. [*For situations where the lack of a valid ticket doesn't involve anything as blatant as this sounds to be, offering a financial settlment can sometimes avoid them going ahead with a prosecution; but others here know more about this.]

 

[30907]

Just to avoid us making wrong assumptions, do you mean a Railcard issued by National Rail, allowing you discounted travel, or a Travelcard Season giving you unlimited travel for a period, or something else?
And when you say this was a one-off, do you mean you used it only once?

 

[cactustwirly]

If you got a fine, that would mean a criminal record. Any punishment a court gives - fine, imprisonment, community service, whatever - is only done if you're convicted in the first place (ie found guilty or plead guilty). If you're convicted, you - by definition - have a criminal record. However, depending on what the sentence was, the record can be "spent" and become irrelevant for many (though not all) purposes after a given length of time.

To avoid a criminal record you have to either not get charged with an offence (sounds unlikely in this instance; though others here might suggest what - if anything - you could do to try to avoid it*), or, if charged, deny the offence and be acquitted by the court. [*For situations where the lack of a valid ticket doesn't involve anything as blatant as this sounds to be, offering a financial settlment can sometimes avoid them going ahead with a prosecution; but others here know more about this.]

This is not always the case, byelaw offences aren't recordable so won't give you a record.

This is Fraud by false representation and despite your protestations, the train company is unlikely to believe that it's a one-off occurrence, unless you have irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

I would suggest that a court visit is probable and that the most likely outcome would be a fine.

There is little to be done until you hear from the train company when you can attempt to negotiate an out of court settlement.

You may want to engage a lawyer as you have correctly identified a criminal record for fraud can be severely career limiting.

Worth noting that the obligation to prove that it wasn't a one off occurrence falls to the ToC, not the OP.

 

[arsenal123abc]

This is a 16-25 railcard issued by National Rail. Yeah when I say one-off this had only been done once on the Greater Anglia train network. Is there any way of assessing the train companies likelihood of taking an out of court settlement? Is this a likely occurrence - is there anything that could be potentially done to increase this likelihood? I Would be willing to come to any size of settlement to keep it out of the courts

This is not always the case, byelaw offences aren't recordable so won't give you a record.



Worth noting that the obligation to prove that it wasn't a one off occurrence falls to the ToC, not the OP.

What decides if it is through a byelaw?

Am also wondering at what stage a lawyer is useful. In convincing the company to accept a settlement or in actually defending against the fraud by misrepresentation charge?

 

[mikeg]

Whether it is a byelaw offence or fraud depends on what they prosecute for, and then it will be up to yourself or the courts to decide whether you are guilty of the offence you are charged with. Fraud would be the most serious offence, the 'nuclear' option if you will. I'd say you're more likely to be charged either with altering a ticket with intent (byelaws) or travelling with intent to avoid paying the correct fare (regulation of railways act 1889). Both are criminal offences, should be punished by a fine and therefore become spent after a year. The latter is however recordable whereas the former is not. I see no reason to get a solicitor yet, though if they allege fraud by false representation I would probably advise doing this.

 

[AlbertBeale]

This is not always the case, byelaw offences aren't recordable so won't give you a record.

Apologies. Though even if not "recordable" in the technical sense of a long-term record, they're surely on the file until "spent" - eg after a year if fined?

As an aside, I get confused by people on these threads saying they'll pay whatever it takes to keep something from coming to court, implying they have the money to do that, but don't use some of that money to buy tickets which avoid the possibility of court in the first place.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

This is a serious offence as I am sure you realise and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you for fraud.

In terms of what happens next then I would expect the train company, or an investigation company acting on their behalf (often Transport Investigations Limited) to contact you asking for your version of events. The letter could take a number of weeks to arrive, depending on the current case load. It is extremely important that you engage with this process and reply to their letter promptly.

I would send a concise reply, apologising for what has happened and saying what you have learned from the episode.. Don't give them a sob story as they will have heard it all before. You might want to say that you are keen to settle the matter without the need to resort to court action and would be prepared to pay the train company's costs in dealing with the matter.

I don't know what the chances are of the train company agreeing to settle. If you were travelling without a ticket and it was the first time you had come to their attention then I would say there was a good chance of a settlement. The aggravating factor here is the forged railcard and I really don't know if the train company will be willing to offer a settlement.

Please do let us know how your case progresses.

 

[arsenal123abc]

Welcome to the forum.

This is a serious offence as I am sure you realise and the train company would be well within their rights to prosecute you for fraud.

In terms of what happens next then I would expect the train company, or an investigation company acting on their behalf (often Transport Investigations Limited) to contact you asking for your version of events. The letter could take a number of weeks to arrive, depending on the current case load. It is extremely important that you engage with this process and reply to their letter promptly.

I would send a concise reply, apologising for what has happened and saying what you have learned from the episode.. Don't give them a sob story as they will have heard it all before. You might want to say that you are keen to settle the matter without the need to resort to court action and would be prepared to pay the train company's costs in dealing with the matter.

I don't know what the chances are of the train company agreeing to settle. If you were travelling without a ticket and it was the first time you had come to their attention then I would say there was a good chance of a settlement. The aggravating factor here is the forged railcard and I really don't know if the train company will be willing to offer a settlement.

Please do let us know how your case progresses.

Thank you for this.

I thought it would be relevant to add that the inspector who spoke to me and took my details made me note down my own address etc and made me sign it. He also showed me a badge which looked quite official- almost like a police badge. He lastly started to ask me questions that he said would be used for a report but because he was not police I did not have to answer. I decided to not reply to the questions as I assumed it was best to not say anything on the record that could incriminate me. Now that you have said this I wonder if this is the train company’s representative/ investigator asking me for my side of the story and I have refused to engage. If so have I made a grave mistake andwould it be worth getting in touch with them. Or regardless is it normal for a letter to be sent as you have said. Thanks

Thank you for this.

I thought it would be relevant to add that the inspector who spoke to me and took my details made me note down my own address etc and made me sign it. He also showed me a badge which looked quite official- almost like a police badge. He lastly started to ask me questions that he said would be used for a report but because he was not police I did not have to answer. I decided to not reply to the questions as I assumed it was best to not say anything on the record that could incriminate me. Now that you have said this I wonder if this is the train company’s representative/ investigator asking me for my side of the story and I have refused to engage. If so have I made a grave mistake andwould it be worth getting in touch with them. Or regardless is it normal for a letter to be sent as you have said. Thanks

I also made clear to him the reason I was not replying and deciding to leave was because I had to rush to my plane. This was at an airport where he was aware that my plane was immanent.

 

[Hadders]

Thank you for this.

I thought it would be relevant to add that the inspector who spoke to me and took my details made me note down my own address etc and made me sign it. He also showed me a badge which looked quite official- almost like a police badge. He lastly started to ask me questions that he said would be used for a report but because he was not police I did not have to answer. I decided to not reply to the questions as I assumed it was best to not say anything on the record that could incriminate me. Now that you have said this I wonder if this is the train company’s representative/ investigator asking me for my side of the story and I have refused to engage. If so have I made a grave mistake andwould it be worth getting in touch with them. Or regardless is it normal for a letter to be sent as you have said. Thanks


I also made clear to him the reason I was not replying and deciding to leave was because I had to rush to my plane. This was at an airport where he was aware that my plane was immanent.

There would be nothing to stop the Train Company proceeding straight to prosecution (I assume they retained the railcard as evidence?) but normally they write to you first asking for your version of events. Unfortunately the ball is in their court as to how they proceed.

I would wait for their letter rather than trying to contact them. You might want to write some details down about what happened on the day while it is still relatively fresh in your mind to help you when you do need to reply to them.

 

[30907]

A small point, and I suggest you don't reply to it, because you might incriminate yourself and someone else: did the "owner" of the 16-25 railcard know that you had taken it?

 

[Puffing Devil]

Worth noting that the obligation to prove that it wasn't a one off occurrence falls to the ToC, not the OP.

In the context of court, yes. In the context of asking for an out of court settlement, no.

 

[E27007]

Is there a time limit for prosecution of say, six months?
With all the disruption of Covid 19, is it possible the administration staff dealing with the processing of your case are furloughed and the process stalls and is forgotten due to a time-bar?

 

[Darandio]

Is there a time limit for prosecution of say, six months?
With all the disruption of Covid 19, is it possible the administration staff dealing with the processing of your case are furloughed and the process stalls and is forgotten due to a time-bar?

Doubtful. There are plenty of recent cases on here where letters related to potential prosecution are still arriving within a timely manner.

 

[WesternLancer]

A small point, and I suggest you don't reply to it, because you might incriminate yourself and someone else: did the "owner" of the 16-25 railcard know that you had taken it?

Yes, if you bought the Railcard from someone offering old ones for re-use at a discount type of thing then it may be that when the time comes you tell them about that and who that person is in order help them put a stop to it, which may count in your favour. However I rather assumed that this was eg a lost railcard that the OP found and altered themselves to benefit from it.

 

[Haywain]

This is a 16-25 railcard issued by National Rail. Yeah when I say one-off this had only been done once on the Greater Anglia train network. Is there any way of assessing the train companies likelihood of taking an out of court settlement?

We cannot say whether it would affect the chances of a settlement, but I think it is relevant to ask if you actually qualify to hold such a railcard. The train company may take a view of how much money you were looking to save by your actions so,if you do not qualify for the railcard, could view the financial consequence as potentially being much higher.

 

[30907]

Is there a time limit for prosecution of say, six months?
With all the disruption of Covid 19, is it possible the administration staff dealing with the processing of your case are furloughed and the process stalls and is forgotten due to a time-bar?

As the OP hasn't said even approximately when the incident was this mau not be relevant.

 

[arsenal123abc]

As the OP hasn't said even approximately when the incident was this mau not be relevant.

Incident was within a relevant timeframe and I am eligible for the railcard.

 

[Brissle Girl]

I note that in the first post you describe it being "a one time act of desperation", which I take to suggest that you were very short of funds. Later you note that you weren't able to stop to cooperate and provide more information as you had to rush to your plane. Whilst there might be occasions whereby you could find yourself in both these situations at the same time, in most instances that wouldn't be the case, and I'm sure the investigators will note where the offence was detected and your reasons for not giving more information.

So in any subsequent correspondence with the authorities, I'd advise against suggesting that hardship was behind your actions, as at best it is likely to be dismissed and at worst taken as a sign that you are still not being completely open and honest in your dealings, which could well influence the future course of events in a negative way from your perspective.

The offence you've committed will be seen as much more premeditated than many we see here, and there may well have been other offences committed that led you to have the railcard that was altered. So I somehow doubt the investigators will be inclined to go down the easy route.

 

[221129]

I decided to not reply to the questions as I assumed it was best to not say anything on the record that could incriminate me. Now that you have said this I wonder if this is the train company’s representative/ investigator asking me for my side of the story and I have refused to engage.

This won't have helped your case, whilst you do have a right to remain silent, it can be used against you in court.

 

[DarloRich]

Get yourself a solicitor. I suspect this will go to court.

 

[arsenal123abc]

A solicitor has suggested they get in touch with the rail company and handle any communication from here on in. I’ve seen on here that responding to the company before they contact you can be a bad idea. Why is that? And would a solicitor acting on my behalf aggravate the train company?

 

[221129]

A solicitor has suggested they get in touch with the rail company and handle any communication from here on in. I’ve seen on here that responding to the company before they contact you can be a bad idea. Why is that? And would a solicitor acting on my behalf aggravate the train company?

Because until the TOC contacts you, there is nothing to reply to.

 

[crablab]

Wonder if the OP has any updates on this?

 

[mikeg]

Who knows? It's only been a month. Could be another five.

 

[philthetube]

I love the header, maybe we could all do with "advice on using a forged railcard".

 

[Mcr Warrior]

OP last posted 20SEP2020. Not that long ago!

 

[fairlie]

I love the header, maybe we could all do with "advice on using a forged railcard".

Yes, my thought on seeing the subject was "Don't".

 

[scrapy]

Is there a time limit for prosecution of say, six months?
With all the disruption of Covid 19, is it possible the administration staff dealing with the processing of your case are furloughed and the process stalls and is forgotten due to a time-bar?

It's possible although unlikely. With fewer people travelling there is probably a greater ratio of staff to cases than there would be normally, so they are probably getting through cases pretty quickly. Rail staff including those in admin are generally not being furloughed.

My hunch on this is that if an out of court settlement isn't offered them this will be prosecuted under RORA as it's pretty easy to prove intent. Prosecution for fraud is unlikely partly because it would probably require a lot of extra work by the TOC whereas RORA act prosecutions are dealt with them on a daily basis.