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Alcohol on Long Distance Trains at the moment

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Journeyman

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Personally after a few beers I find myself minding my own business...fast asleep! :D

That's precisely the effect booze has on me, and why my consumption of it is extremely moderate. Plus with a couple of pints inside me, I'm up and down to the toilet like a yoyo.
 
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harz99

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Yes, I wonder why they did that?

I can think of several reasons starting with the obvious concerns of inebriated passengers not social distancing, not wearing masks while they keep drinking and talking ever more loudly, and thus almost certainly increasing the amount of spray into the air.

Following on from that is the sheer volume of detritus which is inevitably left on the trains in the shape of bottles cans cups and so on, which have all touched peoples lips and have to be clear away by rail staff.

Also, the increased use of the toilet and washroom facilities because all forms of alcohol consumed by us are a diuretic, and the result condition of those facilities as the journey progresses.
 

C J Snarzell

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One of the worst services I've been on for drunkeness is the last service (23.10) from Manchester Victoria to Wigan Wallgate. If George Lucas needs extras for another Star Wars film he doesn't need to look any further.

CJ
 

syorksdeano

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One of the worst services I've been on for drunkeness is the last service (23.10) from Manchester Victoria to Wigan Wallgate. If George Lucas needs extras for another Star Wars film he doesn't need to look any further.

CJ

I think the last Doncaster to Goole service on a Saturday could match that
 

Bikeman78

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I can think of several reasons starting with the obvious concerns of inebriated passengers not social distancing, not wearing masks while they keep drinking and talking ever more loudly, and thus almost certainly increasing the amount of spray into the air.

Following on from that is the sheer volume of detritus which is inevitably left on the trains in the shape of bottles cans cups and so on, which have all touched peoples lips and have to be clear away by rail staff.

Also, the increased use of the toilet and washroom facilities because all forms of alcohol consumed by us are a diuretic, and the result condition of those facilities as the journey progresses.
Yesterday I saw plenty of people not staying apart, or wearing masks until asked by staff. They were on their way in to Cardiff and they didn't look particularly drunk. TFW trains still have most seats labelled out of use but this is now routinely ignored.
 

38Cto15E

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I must admit that the LNER no alcohol policy has deterred me from booking a First class return from Kings Cross to Inverness on the Highland Chieftain. I usually like a couple of drinks on the 8 hour journey, especially when they are complimentary. :)
 

paddy1

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I think TOC's are using COVID as an excuse to downgrade complimentary service in first class. When Virgin took over West Coast, they raised the bar in first class by offering complimentary food and alcohol and therefore East Coast, as it was at the time, felt compelled to do the same. Now Avanti have taken over West Coast, and LNER were at the time still offering complimentary food and alcohol in first class, Avanti felt they had to continue it as passenger expectations had been raised.

When COVID started, both Avanti and LNER very quickly reduced the complimentary first class offer to a collect your own hot drink and biscuits/crisps from the buffet, but no free food or alcohol, with LNER even banning you from bringing your own alcohol on board. Now that Virgin are no longer around on West or East Coast, I suspect Avanti and LNER would both love to ditch the free food, hot meals and alcohol if they felt they could get away with it long term, to the same as what other long distance TOC's offer in first class. Although I note Avanti have now reintroduced the at seat first class offer, they no longer offer complimentary spirits or hot meals, dressing this up as a measure to reduce the COVID risk, and I suspect Avanti and LNER will be watching what each other does very closely to see how much they can get away in the future.

I would like to be proved wrong, but I very much think it is a case of 'it was good while it lasted' in terms of onboard service with Virgin and East Coast in first class, and if this does happen, I think I lot of customers who were willing to pay a premium for the better quality service and superior on board experience will either trade down to standard, feeling the difference in price is no longer worth it, or no longer make the journey by rail at all.

If both companies do decide to downgrade the first class complimentary offer long term, it will be interesting to see what happens to the fare structure and uptake in first class, as the superior on board offer was one of the main reasons Virgin were able to command such premium anytime first class fares on West Coast in the first place.
 
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STEVIEBOY1

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I’m minded to agree. There’s little so civilised as a long distance rail journey with a good meal and a bottle of wine, whether that’s on a private charter, GWR Pullman Dining, or a BYO picnic.
Yes, I fully agree with you, I was just thinking of bringing on board a couple of sandwiches and having a couple of small glasses of wine, it is a journey of nearly 4 hours. I'll see how things are on my travel days. I shall also have a look at the pubs / bars mentioned here at STP.
 

dk1

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Yes I have been struggling to understand the LNER issue with it. Is somebody high up a Quaker? With the limited stock available from the they are losing an important chunk of catering revenue. Most other TOCs appear happy to sell it thankfully.
 

clagmonster

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Unless exempt, wearing a face covering is compulsory under the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020. The applicable exemption here is:
"(e)if it is reasonably necessary for P to eat or drink, P removes their face covering to eat or drink;"

I think it would be hard to argue that consumption of alcohol is necessary, hence it not being permitted.

A snack or soft drink on the other hand could quite easily be seen as necessary, especially on long journeys in reasonable quantities.

I make no comment on whether or not I agree with the law being implemented, however for as long as the law is in force the TOCs must surely encourage compliance.

LNER is the only Train Operating Company that has designated all services as ‘dry’. Anecdotally, no-one seems to be paying a blind bit of notice.
Have the trains actually been declared dry under bylaw 4 (2)
" Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him."
or is there merely a request that passengers do not consume alcohol on board. A subtle difference, indeed I may wish to carry a sealed container next week which would be illegal if notice has been given under the byelaw however would be in compliance with a request not to consume on board.
 

Ianno87

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Unless exempt, wearing a face covering is compulsory under the The Health Protection (Coronavirus, Wearing of Face Coverings on Public Transport) (England) Regulations 2020. The applicable exemption here is:
"(e)if it is reasonably necessary for P to eat or drink, P removes their face covering to eat or drink;"

I think it would be hard to argue that consumption of alcohol is necessary, hence it not being permitted.

A snack or soft drink on the other hand could quite easily be seen as necessary, especially on long journeys in reasonable quantities.

We had this debate recently. The wording is arguably not about whether the thing being eaten or drunk is "reasonable", but is referring to removing the mask only when it is necessary to consume the drink food, i.e. don't leave your mask off for an extended period whilst you take 4 hours to sip a bottle of water.
 

C J Snarzell

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This all boils down to plain old common sense. If you are travelling for four hours from A to B then you should be allowed to have a drink and a snack. The face mask policy is fine but there has to be a sense of proportion in being able to remove it so you can eat a sandwich or drink a bottle of water if you are travelling for a long period of time.

CJ
 

BJames

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I only heard about it from this forum on a previous thread. Not had announcements on any LNER I’ve travelled on recently. Nothing about it on the booking confirmation email from them either.
It is now being stated at Kings Cross, saw it on the main departure boards there the other day that "no alcohol can be consumed on an LNER service". Still nothing on the booking emails though.
 

harz99

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This all boils down to plain old common sense. If you are travelling for four hours from A to B then you should be allowed to have a drink and a snack. The face mask policy is fine but there has to be a sense of proportion in being able to remove it so you can eat a sandwich or drink a bottle of water if you are travelling for a long period of time.

CJ
Two things, firstly this thread is about alcoholic drinks not water, secondly nobody normally drinks a whole bottle of water in one go, of course it's fine to remove your mask for the time needed to eat and drink, as long as you replace it again until you need to take further refreshment no problem.
 

43066

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Two things, firstly this thread is about alcoholic drinks not water, secondly nobody normally drinks a whole bottle of water in one go, of course it's fine to remove your mask for the time needed to eat and drink, as long as you replace it again until you need to take further refreshment no problem.

Two things:

Where does it say in the legislation that you can only remove your face covering to drink water, as opposed to any other kind of drink (alcoholic, or otherwise)?

Where does it say in the legislation that you have to replace the face covering after every sip?
 

Iskra

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The East Coast Route has always made the most fuss about alcohol for some reason. Any excuse for a Dry Saturday out of London or York is jumped upon.

However, one of the key attractions of rail travel is the ability to have a drink or two, it's also a key part of the first class offering.

Could we go down the same route as airlines where alcohol is provided, but make it an offence to be drunk on a train? Or maybe actually enforce the current legislation better and ensure people aren't served/sold more booze when already drunk which again just needs licensing laws to be properly enforced. The current approach just seems to be to allow the drunk and disorderly onto trains, to move the problem onto somebody else...
 

greyman42

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Could we go down the same route as airlines where alcohol is provided, but make it an offence to be drunk on a train?
Lot's of people are "drunk" on trains but do not cause any problems. It's just the one's who do who give the others a bad name.
 

Karl

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Lot's of people are "drunk" on trains but do not cause any problems. It's just the one's who do who give the others a bad name.

This is true.

I'm an alcoholic and when I have a day out on a train I carry at least 12 cans, sometimes 16, of lager in my rucksack. I quietly consume them all day on the train. I will be drunk. I tidy up my empties. I cause no trouble. If alcohol was banned on trains I would simply not travel.

People can be drunk and be harmless and quiet as a mouse.
 

STEVIEBOY1

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When I was on GWR last week, I did have bottle of water and small carton of orange juice, I just removed my mask briefly when sipping these, replacing it immediately afterwards.

There was infact a buffet trolley on the trains that I was travelling on, so they realised that passengers would have to remove masks while eating/drinking their onboard purchases.
 

mmh

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This is true.

I'm an alcoholic and when I have a day out on a train I carry at least 12 cans, sometimes 16, of lager in my rucksack. I quietly consume them all day on the train. I will be drunk. I tidy up my empties. I cause no trouble. If alcohol was banned on trains I would simply not travel.

People can be drunk and be harmless and quiet as a mouse.

In my experience most disruption due to alcohol is actually caused by "sensible" drinkers who are (or think they are) blotto after two drinks and have no idea how to handle alcohol or behave. This is why pubs can be so annoying in the run up to Christmas, with the once a year drinkers, and why pubs next to large office blocks are often best avoided.

They're usually completely oblivious to it and get offended if it's pointed out. Unfortunately, they give everyone a bad name as the non-drinkers see them and assume they're heavy drinkers and tar those who do drink a lot with the same brush.
 

Howardh

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One of the benefits of using the train is after an excellent day out you can have a couple of glasses of wine on the train back. Take that away and the train has little benefit over flying, so might as well go to Heathrow or Southampton and get the last flight back to Manchester. Or take the darned car and add to motorway congestion.

Also if the perks in first-class are reduced, save for the waiting rooms then I can't see why it's worth the extra. Might as well stay in standard and save a few pounds. perhaps a decent middle ground is if they HAVE to ban alcohol, why not exempt first-class ticket holders?

EDIT a tweet reply from LNER the ban is"for the time being" which in my book means "permanent". Don't let them get away with it, we've had our fredoms removed these last 6 months as we sacrificed them for the health of the country, the thanks we get is to keep having them removed by TOC's in future??
 
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bramling

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This is true.

I'm an alcoholic and when I have a day out on a train I carry at least 12 cans, sometimes 16, of lager in my rucksack. I quietly consume them all day on the train. I will be drunk. I tidy up my empties. I cause no trouble. If alcohol was banned on trains I would simply not travel.

People can be drunk and be harmless and quiet as a mouse.

Do you ever fall asleep? My place has plenty of “harmless” drinks who can be a pain to wake up when they end up somewhere they weren’t planning to go, or if the train needs to go out of service for any reason. What if you had to be evacuated onto the track?

To be honest I can get the idea of an alcohol ban - it removes one more potential problem for staff. That said, there’s practical issues around enforcement.
 

Howardh

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Do you ever fall asleep? My place has plenty of “harmless” drinks who can be a pain to wake up when they end up somewhere they weren’t planning to go, or if the train needs to go out of service for any reason. What if you had to be evacuated onto the track?

To be honest I can get the idea of an alcohol ban - it removes one more potential problem for staff. That said, there’s practical issues around enforcement.
You don't have to be drunk to fall asleep and miss your stop!!
 

Howardh

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I know, but being drunk does make it more difficult for staff to wake such people up!
You should see me in deep sleep!! If LNER get away with it, then it will spread like a virus to all the other TOC's making days out less attractive. Nothin better than a pint of old Wibbley Wobbley on the train home from the Lakes after a long day's walking, might as well take the car, have a b+b sleepover and drive home the day after.
 

route101

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Scotrail ban booze from 9pm to 9am. Announcements at Glasgow Central state no food and drink should be consumed in the station.
 

Huntergreed

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Scotrail ban booze from 9pm to 9am. Announcements at Glasgow Central state no food and drink should be consumed in the station.
These announcements are no longer used (at least they weren’t when I visited last weekend)
 
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