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Anxiety

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KINSEY.

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How come so many cases of fare evasion involve people with anxiety. Surely if you suffered from it you would get the correct ticket so you could have a stress free journey, rather than worrying about being caught when you are trying to use a child ticket when you are an adult or claiming to have a railcard when you don't.
 
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mmh

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How come so many cases of fare evasion involve people with anxiety. Surely if you suffered from it you would get the correct ticket so you could have a stress free journey, rather than worrying about being caught when you are trying to use a child ticket when you are an adult or claiming to have a railcard when you don't.

Do you have any references, quotes or statistics which back up this assertion?
 

KINSEY.

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Looking at several of the threads on here... eg
How would you write an email to TIL, to ask for an out-of-court settlement?

My sister was caught with a childs ticket instead of an adult ticket. Only saving around £1.50, which was stupid and she agrees. She pays for tickets that are like ten times more expensive, all the time. She's a full time healthcare student, so a conviction would jeopardise her career greatly.

Their emails and letters (she received 1 letter from chiltern railways and an email from TIL) haven't mentioned a settlement at all. Only said in the TIL email "If convicted the maximum penalty for this offence is a fine of up to £1000 and or three months in prison (albeit unlikely for a first offence)". They say that she owes an amount over £3,000, as they have found several cases (although I don't think their maths is correct). Shes's already sent an email saying what happened, that she is very sorry and regrets her decisions, also that she has learnt her lesson and hasn't done it since (which is true and they can see on the trainline app).

She wants to include in the letter that she is a full time uni student going into healthcare, and the effect a conviction would have on her career. She suffers from anxiety issues and so I'm trying to handle this for her. I'm really concerned for her and her mental health,
 

AlterEgo

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I think the over-medicalisation of anxiety as an excuse or mitigation probably falls under General Discussion where we could probably have a field day with the issue!
 

mmh

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Looking at several of the threads on here... eg

One third-person account, of the small number of people who come to the forum to ask for assistance, who are are a minute proportion of those processed for fare evasion. I don't think you can make worthwhile generalisations in any direction based on such a tiny sample size.
 

Journeyman

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This sounds to me like an attempt to trivialise anxiety and the problems it causes people.
 

yorkie

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How come so many cases of fare evasion involve people with anxiety. Surely if you suffered from it you would get the correct ticket so you could have a stress free journey, rather than worrying about being caught when you are trying to use a child ticket when you are an adult or claiming to have a railcard when you don't.
Looking at several of the threads on here... eg
Any more than just one example?

I think sometimes it will be used as a made-up excuse. But that doesn't mean anxiety is a real problem for some people.

Also don't forget that in some disputes the passenger is in the right, and for someone who suffers from anxiety that can be a most unpleasant experience.
 

father_jack

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Alas you get "anxious" people who exacerbate their genuine anxiety diagnosis by doing silly things like not buying a ticket or renewing their railcard and then hoping their diagnosis will get them dealt with differently.
 

mmh

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Alas you get "anxious" people who exacerbate their genuine anxiety diagnosis by doing silly things like not buying a ticket or renewing their railcard and then hoping their diagnosis will get them dealt with differently.
And you get people like me who go the other way at times. For example, if I'm in an unfamiliar town I will happily jump through hoops to get a bus ticket on a smartcard, or buy a day rover or similar, rather than have to ask for a single to an unfamiliar location. Almost inevitably this means spending more, but removes a considerable worry.
 

father_jack

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The anxiety maybe arises AFTER one realises one has made a mistake, or when one is caught.
Nobody should ever be treated poorly after a mistake, I was travelling home on the train only the other day and a very stressed lad realised he had left his banjo in the waiting room where he got on, phone calls were made and he was arranged to travel back to collect it etc free of charge, problem solved.

But if you're anxious because you've been rumbled being naughty, well there you go.
 

Hadders

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We only hear about a tiny number of fare evasion issues on this forum so I strongly suspect that claiming this is a common theme is a little wide of the mark.
 

KINSEY.

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And you get people like me who go the other way at times. For example, if I'm in an unfamiliar town I will happily jump through hoops to get a bus ticket on a smartcard, or buy a day rover or similar, rather than have to ask for a single to an unfamiliar location. Almost inevitably this means spending more, but removes a considerable worry.
Exactly my point. Surely as you do, a sufferer would try and avoid the situation, rather than doing an act that could increase anxiety
 

py_megapixel

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Exactly my point. Surely as you do, a sufferer would try and avoid the situation, rather than doing an act that could increase anxiety
I can't speak for everyone, but for some people financial constraints are a significant source of anxiety, so saving the £1.50 or whatever could actually decrease it - at least in the first instance.

I also agree that using the threads that appear on the forum as a sample probably isn't accurate. Don't forget that on the other end of the spectrum, the least anxious people might well not bother asking for advice at all.
 

ClagLover

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Not every person with anxiety is anxious about the same things. Anxiety much of the time also has many co-morbidities which can influence and impact on behaviour.
 

T-Karmel

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Don't forget that on the other end of the spectrum, the least anxious people might well not bother asking for advice at all.
That just what I wanted to say.

Maybe the fact that they're anxious about it makes them to Google it and ask for advice here, whilst there'll be a lot of people who only read others advices and never post themselves, and many many many more people who don't even try to find out what is awaiting for them, one day they just receive the letter from a TOC and they just reply to it hoping for the best, not stressing much about it.
 

Islineclear3_1

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How come so many cases of fare evasion involve people with anxiety. Surely if you suffered from it you would get the correct ticket so you could have a stress free journey, rather than worrying about being caught when you are trying to use a child ticket when you are an adult or claiming to have a railcard when you don't.
How have you deduced this?

Most people become anxious when they realise the gravity of what they've done and the possible negative consequences such as a criminal record, losing their job etc. Not to mention dealing with the rail company or its representatives, or the courts

Also, radical reasoning or judgement gets obscured by anxiety, in some people
 

KINSEY.

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Any more than just one example?

I think sometimes it will be used as a made-up excuse. But that doesn't mean anxiety is a real problem for some people.

Also don't forget that in some disputes the passenger is in the right, and for someone who suffers from anxiety that can be a most unpleasant experience.
If you search for Sillytraveller and Friday235 you will find some more examples.
 

SteveM70

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One of my kids suffers from anxiety, and one of the things I’ve learned through a combination of his experiences and conversations with the fantastic healthcare professionals that have helped him is that there isn’t a single type of anxiety. Pretty much everyone labelled with anxiety has different experiences.

The way my son tries to manage his anxiety is by trying to minimise the number of occasions where something unexpected happens, particularly when he’s out of the house. He isn’t anxious all the time. On the rare occasions he travels alone, it’s only after meticulous preparation - where he’s going, where’s his ticket, what will he see along the way etc etc.

What the triggers an anxiety episode is if something unexpected happens. Generally that’s a delay, a platform change, that sort of stuff. But were he to lose his ticket or phone, be challenged as to the validity of his ticket (rightly or wrongly) it would most likely get messy very quickly. He’s had one very difficult experience where he missed a connection because of a delay, but got the next train to his destination because that’s what his preparation told him to do, unfortunately it was a different TOC and his ticket wasn’t valid. When the conductor told him his ticket wasn’t valid he had an anxiety attack but thankfully rang me, and I was able to speak to the conductor who allowed him to complete his journey.

Do other people use anxiety as a convenient excuse to try and explain poor decision making or mitigate the impact? Maybe. People tell lies all the time. But to say people with anxiety are less likely to have ticketing issues is, in my experience, nonsense.
 

Islineclear3_1

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If you search for Sillytraveller and Friday235 you will find some more examples.
I read Sillytraveller's opening post. Nothing to do with your opening post.

Being caught, and the likely sequence of events and possible repercussions might have led to a panic attack in his case. Reality for many people once they've realised the gravity of their situation
 

yorkie

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If you search for Sillytraveller and Friday235 you will find some more examples.
I don't understand the point you are making but I think people have answered above.

Regarding Friday235, they say they didn't see the machine. If you've used stations like Garforth, you'd know some machines are very difficult to spot, obscured and unsigned. Of course they are going to be anxious because of the way Northern are treating them

As for Sillytraveller, I refer you to @Islineclear3_1 's post above.

(I've locked this thread but if anyone has anything important to add, please click the report button on this post, and include a copy of what you wish to post)
 
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