Any first person anecdotes of the APT

[nlogax]

I dunno, I always thought it looked cramped and claustrophobic and quite narrow.

The large windows give an airier impression than certain other tilting trains that pound the same north-south path. I don't have a problem with Pendos myself but APT interiors looked pretty good to me.

 

[hexagon789]

Really enjoying reading this. I’m finding myself wondering who on here had the best (fastest or maybe fastest over a normally slow curved section) run..?

Some logs on the APT-P pages have speeds of over 130mph - a 138mph and a 136mph iirc

 

[WesternLancer]

I dunno, I always thought it looked cramped and claustrophobic and quite narrow.

But not as much as a Pendolino does, due to larger windows I think. I recall the luggage racks above seats seemed small (due to body taper no doubt)

 

[Bletchleyite]

But not as much as a Pendolino does, due to larger windows I think. I recall the luggage racks above seats seemed small (due to body taper no doubt)

The taper is considerably more than a Pendolino, so yes, probably. The Pendolino is larger because of TASS which stops it tilting at "pinch points" and because it doesn't tilt as much.

 

[WesternLancer]

The taper is considerably more than a Pendolino, so yes, probably. The Pendolino is larger because of TASS which stops it tilting at "pinch points" and because it doesn't tilt as much.

Thanks - I really must go to visit the APT at Crewe and see what I think of it now, some years after my summer 1984 trip!

 

[Gloster]

My recollection is that it was quite airy: those big windows had an effect. My journey was entirely in daylight, so it might have been different at night.

 

[Simon E]

Thank you all for the replies, keep 'em coming! special thanks to @SargeNpton for uploading the brochure that along with
@32475 ticket are the journalistic equivalent of pure gold. Obviously I can't reproduce it due to copyright reasons (someone must still own the the copyright) but I can use it for research.. nudge nudge wink wink as they say! I'm glad people are enjoying this thread it proves there is still interest in the APT after nearly 4 decades and hopefully my article will be appreciated by a wider audience when (if...) it makes it into print (Title of magazine will be revealed when they have read and approved it)

I started another thread to get train times for a pendolino 390 route near me.... I've got a particular run in mind with apparently a fair amount of tilt! will add an account of that run as an epilogue (perhaps epitaph is a more appropriate word) to the APT... I'm watching the weather forecasts to hopefully get a clear day for photos.

Thanks - I really must go to visit the APT at Crewe and see what I think of it now, some years after my summer 1984 trip!

Unfortunately the Heritage centre is closed but it can be seen clearly from the road, I managed to get some decent shots by zoom through the fence, I will visit it again when the centre reopens even if that is after my article is published.

 

[Jim Jehosofat]

Overheard in the buffet car...........

"Steward, have you seen my sausage roll?"

"Yes sir, its the tilt mechanism!"

 

[nlogax]

The Thames TV archive published this late yesterday. Interesting to note how BR planned to de-risk the project by making tilt and bogie modifications on further builds.

 

[SteveM70]

I did a Glasgow to Preston trip on one of the early public runs - I’d have been about 12 I think. My grandad was ex BR staff and took me for a weekend in Inverness, going up on the sleeper and back via an overnight in Glasgow and APT to Preston and then normal train to Nuneaton. We did a day trip to Kyle while we were up there, and on the Sunday we were allowed into Inverness depot for a look round. Wish I still had the notes and photos.

My only memory of APT is passengers excitedly asking “when’s it going to tilt?”, a bit like kids on a long car journey asking “are we there yet?”

 

[Simon E]

Regarding interior detail I have this shot of APT-P 2nd class seating, I also have from 30+ years ago a slide of the original 1st class interior shortly after the unit was delivered to Crewe Heritage Centre. I think currently all this 1st class seating upholstery has been covered with protective materials as the trim had begun to wear quite badly during its time at Crewe.

@Ash Bridge thanks for these pictures I've downloaded them to hopefully use along with the ticket 32475 provided. your pictures are great news for me as I cant get on board to take them myself!. if used by the magazine what name would you like as credit? user name or first name with initial etc and when roughly were they both taken?

 

[Ash Bridge]

@Ash Bridge thanks for these pictures I've downloaded them to hopefully use along with the ticket 32475 provided. your pictures are great news for me as I cant get on board to take them myself!. if used by the magazine what name would you like as credit? user name or first name with initial etc and when roughly were they both taken?

User name would be fine! As for dates - 2nd class was 2013 and 1st class would be 1988. I'm glad I recorded the original 1st interior back then as sadly by 2013 it looked like below so who knows if the original upholstery will ever be revealed again?

 

[John Webb]

When the APT-P was under test from Derby on the Midland Main Line, special instructions were issued to the (mechanical) signal boxes to cope with its much higher speed when in transit compared to the usual service trains. The preserved St Albans South signal box has a copy of these instructions in their archive. If you are interested in a copy please contact them via their website www.sigbox.co.uk.

 

[Blinkbonny]

On Friday 11th December 1981 my wife (as came to be!) was travelling up from Crewe to Lancaster through thick snow. She must have been on one of the first APT runs in the public timetable.

It failed at Preston, to the extent that not even the doors would open, and she remembers having to file through the engine compartment and exit through the driver's cab.

She had a large rucksack with her and she found this very difficult.

 

[pdeaves]

When the APT-P was under test from Derby on the Midland Main Line, special instructions were issued to the (mechanical) signal boxes to cope with its much higher speed when in transit compared to the usual service trains. The preserved St Albans South signal box has a copy of these instructions in their archive. If you are interested in a copy please contact them via their website www.sigbox.co.uk.

Just on a point of pedantry, that would be APT-E (gas turbine), not APT-P (the electric unit).

 

[Simon E]

When the APT-P was under test from Derby on the Midland Main Line, special instructions were issued to the (mechanical) signal boxes to cope with its much higher speed when in transit compared to the usual service trains. The preserved St Albans South signal box has a copy of these instructions in their archive. If you are interested in a copy please contact them via their website www.sigbox.co.uk.

Thanks will do. it would make an interesting read

On Friday 11th December 1981 my wife (as came to be!) was travelling up from Crewe to Lancaster through thick snow. She must have been on one of the first APT runs in the public timetable.

It failed at Preston, to the extent that not even the doors would open, and she remembers having to file through the engine compartment and exit through the driver's cab.

She had a large rucksack with her and she found this very difficult.

thanks might use this if I may. shall i use your username if I do?

 

[Blinkbonny]

Please feel free to do what ever you wish. I was a bit train-spotterish at the time, and it was me she was coming to see.

I remember ribbing her over her having "cabbed" the ATP and me never having had a chance!

I suppose the only other thing of note is, that despite having no interest in railways at all, she was aware that it was the ATP and not just any old train. Such was its high profile.

 

[John Webb]

Just on a point of pedantry, that would be APT-E (gas turbine), not APT-P (the electric unit).

Thanks - I always mix up the E and P as 'P' to me says 'Prototype' and 'E'='Electric'!! I assume the E was 'experimental'.

 

[Taunton]

When the APT-P was under test from Derby on the Midland Main Line, special instructions were issued to the (mechanical) signal boxes to cope with its much higher speed when in transit compared to the usual service trains. The preserved St Albans South signal box has a copy of these instructions in their archive. If you are interested in a copy please contact them via their website www.sigbox.co.uk.

Was this double blocking, as done for the Royal Train and for various double headed accelerated diesel services in the late 1960s-70s?

 

[John Webb]

Was this double blocking, as done for the Royal Train and for various double headed accelerated diesel services in the late 1960s-70s?

Can't recall what it said, and I don't have a copy to hand. Will check next time I'm up at the box.

 

[peteb]

I was watching trains at Desborough on the Midland Main Line c.1973 with my Grandad when a silver and blue train hurtled past. It was I think the original "gas turbine" version(??). The cab looked much sleeker than the APT we saw in 1980: much more like a modern TGV. Was this a prototype APT? Did anyone else see it at say Kettering or Leicester?

 

[WesternLancer]

I was watching trains at Desborough on the Midland Main Line c.1973 with my Grandad when a silver and blue train hurtled past. It was I think the original "gas turbine" version(??). The cab looked much sleeker than the APT we saw in 1980: much more like a modern TGV. Was this a prototype APT? Did anyone else see it at say Kettering or Leicester?

Presumably this - now in the NRM

British Rail APT-E - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gloster]

One of the reasons I was so interested to travel on the APT was that I had seen one of the record runs of the gas-turbine prototype. As I remember it took place fairly early on a damp-ish Sunday morning and I saw it somewhere on the GWML east of Didcot or Cholsey. I think the run was a record at the time, although it may have been exceeded by a later one. I remember how it glistened as it shot past at an enormous speed. I wish I could remember how I got to hear of the run; I was only about fifteen at the time and didn’t have any BR contacts.

(I persuaded my father to get up a couple of hours earlier than would be normal on a Sunday as I knew how to get to get him enthusiastic about things. Additionally, he could combine it with a duty visit to some relatives who lived somewhere beyond Oxford: they were surprised how early in the day we arrived.)

 

[peteb]

Presumably this - now in the NRM

British Rail APT-E - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yes that's it!!

 

[Simon E]

I was watching trains at Desborough on the Midland Main Line c.1973 with my Grandad when a silver and blue train hurtled past. It was I think the original "gas turbine" version(??). The cab looked much sleeker than the APT we saw in 1980: much more like a modern TGV. Was this a prototype APT? Did anyone else see it at say Kettering or Leicester?

as @WesternLancer says it would have been the E.... The museum its in is still open unlike the Heritage centre which is closed. Unfortunately its 150 odd miles away from me, I'd love to and see it but I can't really justify a trip that far at the moment.

The Thames TV archive published this late yesterday. Interesting to note how BR planned to de-risk the project by making tilt and bogie modifications on further builds.

That was a great link just watched it... it was interesting to hear the figures.. 50 million! and the French one with a new track 17 times that 800 odd million... I bet the government wish they could build HS2 for that...

 

[XAM2175]

The Thames TV archive published this late yesterday. Interesting to note how BR planned to de-risk the project by making tilt and bogie modifications on further builds.

It's a little bit more than de-risking the project - the "new APT" they start discussing (with changes that "won't make that much difference" to passengers ) is the train that eventually developed into InterCity 225; the Class 91 locomotive and Mark 4 coaches.

it was interesting to hear the figures.. 50 million! and the French one with a new track 17 times that 800 odd million... I bet the government wish they could build HS2 for that...

Worth noting that with inflation to 2019 values that 850 million pounds quoted as being spent on the TGV/LGV Sud-Est project comes to just shy of 2 billion 890 million

There is a very interesting long-form documentary produced in 1988 concerning the development of InterCity 225 that includes discussion of APT-P that I'd thoroughly recommend to anybody with an hour to spare:

 

[nlogax]

It's a little bit more than de-risking the project - the "new APT" they start discussing (with changes that "won't make that much difference" to passengers ) is the train that eventually developed into InterCity 225; the Class 91 locomotive and Mark 4 coaches.

Yep, good point. I did wonder if the Mk4s were pretty much the direct descendants of APT-U test trailer. Outside of an APT rake and with non-articulated bogies the connection is a bit easier to see.

 

[43096]

Yep, good point. I did wonder if the Mk4s were pretty much the direct descendants of APT-U test trailer. Outside of an APT rake and with non-articulated bogies the connection is a bit easier to see.

View attachment 84995

Let’s nail now the myth that APT is related to Class 91/Mark 4. It isn’t: APT was a BR/BREL product, whereas IC225 is GEC-Alsthom lineage.

 

[Grumpy]

I had seen one of the record runs of the gas-turbine prototype. As I remember it took place fairly early on a damp-ish Sunday morning and I saw it somewhere on the GWML east of Didcot or Cholsey. I think the run was a record at the time,

I took some photos of the Sunday morning running east of Didcot. It was a dry sunny day by that time.

 

[Simon E]

It's a little bit more than de-risking the project - the "new APT" they start discussing (with changes that "won't make that much difference" to passengers ) is the train that eventually developed into InterCity 225; the Class 91 locomotive and Mark 4 coaches.


Worth noting that with inflation to 2019 values that 850 million pounds quoted as being spent on the TGV/LGV Sud-Est project comes to just shy of 2 billion 890 million

There is a very interesting long-form documentary produced in 1988 concerning the development of InterCity 225 that includes discussion of APT-P that I'd thoroughly recommend to anybody with an hour to spare:

Yes inflation does make it seem like a bigger bargain than it actually is but current revised costings at feb 20 for HS2 is around a 100 billion... i suppose a lot of that is buying up land and houses on the route at crazy money!

I've put a few photos of a journey on a thread I started about wanting to ride Pendolino 390, for the tiltage of course! thought this thread might like to see them. hope its okay to post a link to other thread. its post 31

https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...390-near-burton-on-trent.210440/#post-4829846