Any thoughts on the CAM (Cambridge Autonomous Metro)?

[dm1]

The only alternative I can think of is a Copenhagen-style fully automated metro. Whilst that would be cool, I'm not convinced it would be any cheaper or better than a tram.

 

[Jozhua]

The only alternative I can think of is a Copenhagen-style fully automated metro. Whilst that would be cool, I'm not convinced it would be any cheaper or better than a tram.

It would certainly be better...cheaper?probably not. However, it may not be that much more expensive, once everything is factored in.

 

[camflyer]

Cambridge has its rough parts, pretty much like any city!

Indeed - Cambridge has claim to be one of the most "unequal" cities in the country. While it may have a median income higher than the national average and very low unemployment there are still pockets of rough and deprived areas. Kings Hedges and Arbury which are on the other side of the busway from the Science Park. It is literally a case of being on the wrong side of the tracks.

 

[camflyer]

Looks like James Palmer is about to lose the Cambridgeshire mayor election. Could this be the end of CAM?

 

[Ianno87]

Looks like James Palmer is about to lose the Cambridgeshire mayor election. Could this be the end of CAM?

Almost certainly. Nik Johnson's manifesto suggests he's very lukewarm on the idea of any such grands-projects

 

[camflyer]

Update: Palmer lost becoming one of the few Conservative losers in this round of elections.

Bye, bye CAM.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Update: Palmer lost becoming one of the few Conservative losers in this round of elections.

Bye, bye CAM.

Anyone got any trams going spare?

 

[Tobbes]

Update: Palmer lost becoming one of the few Conservative losers in this round of elections.

Bye, bye CAM.

Thank goodness - now for some sensible transport policies based on technology that actually exists (e.g., trams).

 

[camflyer]

Almost certainly. Nik Johnson's manifesto suggests he's very lukewarm on the idea of any such grands-projects

I'm not against grands-projets but CAM was the wrong solution to Cambridge's problems. Plenty of small European cities have systems which work. Pick one of them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'm not against grands-projets but CAM was the wrong solution to Cambridge's problems. Plenty of small European cities have systems which work. Pick one of them.

And make sure it's a standard one, not a flag-waving piece of patriotism for Monsieur Michelin.

Trams are the answer - standard, low-floor, 4' 8.5" trams. Put them in a tunnel or run them on batteries in places if you need to, but keep it simple and keep it standard.

 

[Tobbes]

And make sure it's a standard one, not a flag-waving piece of patriotism for Monsieur Michelin.

Trams are the answer - standard, low-floor, 4' 8.5" trams. Put them in a tunnel or run them on batteries in places if you need to, but keep it simple and keep it standard.

Exactly right. And if you want to be a but future proofed and fancy (eg Haverhill) make them tram/trains

 

[camflyer]

New Mayor confirms he will scrap CAM

Cambridgeshire and Peterborough’s new mayor Nik Johnson will scrap £2bn metro project

Cambridgeshire and Peterborough’s new mayor Nik Johnson has confirmed he will not proceed with the £2bn Cambridgeshire Autonomous Metro project.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

 

[Royston Vasey]

Wonderful news for Cambridgeshire, wonderful news for Cambridge. This vain used car dealer had sunk enough money into this folly, and he's picked his last clueless fight with Network Rail over Cambridge South as well.

 

[Sparrowman]

Now that the project is going to be scrapped, is there a plan as to what will replace it? More traditional light metro/tram?

Whilst the CAM appeared to be a misguided vanity project, the transport issues still remain.

 

[Ianno87]

Now that the project is going to be scrapped, is there a plan as to what will replace it? More traditional light metro/tram?

Whilst the CAM appeared to be a misguided vanity project, the transport issues still remain.

Nik Johnson's priorities seem to be around buses, bus franchising, park and ride etc. Whether he will re-look at light rail in the longer term remains to be seen.

 

[camflyer]

Nik Johnson's priorities seem to be around buses, bus franchising, park and ride etc. Whether he will re-look at light rail in the longer term remains to be seen.

While CAM was a hare-brained scheme of the highest order, more bus lanes and park and rides seem a little too unambitious and unlikely to produce the big modal shift which is needed.

 

[Tobbes]

While CAM was a hare-brained scheme of the highest order, more bus lanes and park and rides seem a little too unambitious and unlikely to produce the big modal shift which is needed.

Agreed, but a quicker-to-implement scheme that can soak up some demand now whilst a longer term strategic plan (,ie, trams) can be brought into use.

 

[ashkeba]

Has Cambridge a bike hire system since ofo withdrew? That seems like a quick capacity win until tramways or trolleybus knitting can be built.

 

[CBlue]

Has Cambridge a bike hire system since ofo withdrew? That seems like a quick capacity win until tramways or trolleybus knitting can be built.

Not much cop if you live outside the city though!

Another company started up e-scooters and e-bikes as a trial - Voi.

 

[camflyer]

Has Cambridge a bike hire system since ofo withdrew? That seems like a quick capacity win until tramways or trolleybus knitting can be built.

The system in Cambridge seems to be to nick a bike if you need one

With such a high levels of bike ownership a hire scheme never took off. The main problem the city has is of thousands of people who work in the city but can't afford to live there so have to commute in from the likes of Newmarket, Ely and Cambourne.

 

[ashkeba]

Not much cop if you live outside the city though!

Another company started up e-scooters and e-bikes as a trial - Voi.

It can help if there are hire bikes at the entry points like the North station, Milton Road and whatever equivalent on the other sides. Then you can disembark before the busy core if not going to the center.

I have not heard of Voi. I will search.

 

[Ianno87]

While CAM was a hare-brained scheme of the highest order, more bus lanes and park and rides seem a little too unambitious and unlikely to produce the big modal shift which is needed.

I think there does need to be something shorter term, and fixing buses seems like the way to go - they ought to be ideal for how well they penetrate the city centre.

It can help if there are hire bikes at the entry points like the North station, Milton Road and whatever equivalent on the other sides. Then you can disembark before the busy core if not going to the center.

Not quite the same, but the Park & Ride sites do have cycle storage facilities (so you can park and cycle)

Cycle hire would work well at some. Newmarket Rd, for example, is a dead easy cycle into town along the river.

 

[edwin_m]

I think there does need to be something shorter term, and fixing buses seems like the way to go - they ought to be ideal for how well they penetrate the city centre.

I still maintain that trams on the surface are incompatible with the centre of Cambridge. Getting anything better than the buses do now would probably need some sort of underground solution. This is probably the germ of where the CAM idea came from, but even with the gadgetbahn elements stripped out it would be a difficult, expensive and time-consuming proposition. Rather like a poor man's version of the surface tramways in France, bus improvements are probably the only thin the Mayor can deliver during his term of office.

 

[Bletchleyite]

While CAM was a hare-brained scheme of the highest order, more bus lanes and park and rides seem a little too unambitious and unlikely to produce the big modal shift which is needed.

Given that Cambridge is a fairly anti-car and quite small city, I reckon it might work if done to the appropriate quality and with electric vehicles. It would be sensible to get talking to a certain person who likes "creating desire".

Not quite the same, but the Park & Ride sites do have cycle storage facilities (so you can park and cycle)

Cycle hire would work well at some. Newmarket Rd, for example, is a dead easy cycle into town along the river.

Having done exactly that last Sunday, I noticed that a considerable proportion of the cars in the St Ives car park appeared not to have parked and ridden the bus, but parked and ridden their bike. (This is fairly unscientific, but I saw a number of cars with bike carriers on the back and also some other cyclists actually there). And that isn't an easy cycle, even though it's pleasant, because it's a long way! (About 16 miles I think).

So for Cambridge, park and ride (your bike) does have potential, much more than anywhere else other than probably Oxford.

 

[ashkeba]

And that isn't an easy cycle, even though it's pleasant, because it's a long way! (About 16 miles I think).

So for Cambridge, park and ride (your bike) does have potential, much more than anywhere else other than probably Oxford.

Yes,and not only parking and cycling but even just cycling. Cambourne is only 8 miles away and Newmarket I think 14 but the cycleways are poor paint jobs (Cambourne) or very indirect (Newmarket). Those should be quick wins to free up some bus capacity by enabling some cycling. Even Ely might just be in range if the cycle way was more direct and no gravel bits.

I think Cambridge park and rides sensibly allow you to pay only to park and then cycle onnwards. Oxford and Norwich did not when I tried lastly. Bike hire from some P+R is an obvious good thing to try, also from outer bus stops and train stations.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think Cambridge park and rides sensibly allow you to pay only to park and then cycle onnwards. Oxford and Norwich did not when I tried lastly. Bike hire from some P+R is an obvious good thing to try, also from outer bus stops and train stations.

Parking is free at the St Ives site as long as you don't stay more than 18 hours after which it is chargeable with payment by phone only (if I recall). I'm not entirely sure why this stipulation exists - it may well be to discourage people using it for camper vans (though it does have a 2m height barrier).

 

[camflyer]

I wonder how much was spent on the CAM proposals.

 

[trebor79]

Parking is free at the St Ives site as long as you don't stay more than 18 hours after which it is chargeable with payment by phone only (if I recall). I'm not entirely sure why this stipulation exists - it may well be to discourage people using it for camper vans (though it does have a 2m height barrier).

Maybe to stop people using it as long term parking when flying out of Stansted? Would be easy to dump the car there, bus to Cambridge and train to the airport.

 

[Tobbes]

I wonder how much was spent on the CAM proposals.

At least £2.5m, reportedly

 

[Jozhua]

I think it's worth figuring out what the goals of the project are. Urban transportation within cambridge, or inter-urban transportation to the surrounding towns/cities?

For urban transportation, bus priority, better bike infrastructure is fairly low hanging fruit things that can be done. Then a light rail system would probably make sense, perhaps low-floor with your NET style trams.

Inter-urban transportation can be done by bus or by rail. Extending the busways is probably the cheapest option for this, if you want to reach most communities in your $2bn budget.

Light rail could very well be up to the job of inter-urban transportation, using tram/train vehicles that can sustain 62mph. If a city centre tunnel is utilised, then a pre-metro type system could be created, making use of high floor platforms similar to Metrolink. If the system meets/exceeds ridership expectations, it could then be upgraded with platform screen doors and fully automated trains, perhaps with higher top speeds. That would be significantly better and more importantly, possible, when compared to the CAM. Indeed, it would actually be automated and a metro!

New Mayor confirms he will scrap CAM

Cambridgeshire and Peterborough’s new mayor Nik Johnson will scrap £2bn metro project

Cambridgeshire and Peterborough’s new mayor Nik Johnson has confirmed he will not proceed with the £2bn Cambridgeshire Autonomous Metro project.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

That £2bn figure is a massive understatement for what it would actually cost to build anyway!

For £2bn, you could set up a pretty sturdy light rail system. Even at the $100m a mile for Metrolink's Trafford Park Line (which was generally built to a higher standard than most tramways), you could get 20 miles of track.

I wonder how much was spent on the CAM proposals.

Any money is too much money for that scheme lmao.

At least £2.5m, reportedly

Well, that's a fleet of probably 10-20 new buses, but could have been far worse.