• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Are e-tickets the way forward?

Status
Not open for further replies.

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
Annoyingly not, I bought through Trainsplit and don't recall changing to TOD (I only spotted that I was getting paper tickets when the booking confirmation came through!) so I can only assume that at least one of them wasn't available to be e-ticketed as Trainsplit defaults to e-tickets helpfully.
Edit: my guess would be the Northern sale tickets as I would imagine LNER would be hot on making theirs available as e-tickets
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
2,206
Yeah paper tickets are great! That's why when I collected them for a journey I'm making tomorrow I was confronted with this amount of shrapnel from the TVM that issued them:

View attachment 114467

Now fine I will confess that this is a set of split tickets but still, twelve pieces of card versus a single pdf or perhaps two at the most is just no contest in my book...
Yet even a stack of 12 credit card sized tickets will easily fit in your wallet whereas a sheet of A4 paper with a set of incomprehensible barcodes won't!
 

Ediswan

Established Member
Joined
15 Nov 2012
Messages
2,842
Location
Stevenage
Now fine I will confess that this is a set of split tickets but still, twelve pieces of card versus a single pdf or perhaps two at the most is just no contest in my book...
How many Aztec codes would the equivalent e-ticket contain ?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
How many Aztec codes would the equivalent e-ticket contain ?
It would be issued as a single PDF consisting of 4 pages, one Aztec barcode on each page.
The pages would all be in the correct order too!
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,726
having a phone in a trouser pocket, getting it out and unlocking it simply by looking at it, one, perhaps two touches on the wallet app, through barriers.
Still more complex than having a simple CCST in a shirt pocket. Besides, I don’t like having an expensive iPhone in a trouser pocket as there’s always a risk it could get bumped and the screen crack. No, even though I’m totally onboard with buying online you’ll never convince me that the simplest, easiest and safest option on the day is anything other than a CCST.
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,542
Location
Redcar
Yet even a stack of 12 credit card sized tickets will easily fit in your wallet whereas a sheet of A4 paper with a set of incomprehensible barcodes won't!
Why would I do that when I can show the pdf on my phone?
How many Aztec codes would the equivalent e-ticket contain ?
As per @yorkie it would have been four pdf pages.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,726
I have never had any kind of failure involving an e-ticket on a mobile phone. What failures would you anticipate? M-tickets are a different matter, but I think those are junk and would go for CCST in preference to them.

By contrast I have lost a CCST and had to pay again (fortunately I was sold one, not PFed or prosecuted) and I have had failures to issue ToD correctly in several different ways on several occasions.
Well I’ve had phone run out of electricity on a EMR HST (no power sockets in standard), regularly no phone signal on EMR / EMT 222s on the MML (222s notorious for poor mobile signal due to window coating and wifi not working), etc… Thankfully on each occasion I’ve had CCST. I’ve never had a TVM failure or been unable to collect due queues etc nor have I lost a CCST. IMO printed tickets are just easier to rely on and a simpler user experience at station barriers and on trains.
 

Darandio

Established Member
Joined
24 Feb 2007
Messages
10,674
Location
Redcar
Yet even a stack of 12 credit card sized tickets will easily fit in your wallet whereas a sheet of A4 paper with a set of incomprehensible barcodes won't!

Of course it would. The art of folding paper was invented at the same time paper appeared.
 

py_megapixel

Established Member
Joined
5 Nov 2018
Messages
6,645
Location
Northern England
Yet even a stack of 12 credit card sized tickets will easily fit in your wallet whereas a sheet of A4 paper with a set of incomprehensible barcodes won't!
Interesting that you complain about the barcodes being "incomprehensible". How easy to you find it to comprehend the information contained with the magstripe on your CCST?
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
Well I’ve had phone run out of electricity on a EMR HST (no power sockets in standard), regularly no phone signal on EMR / EMT 222s on the MML (222s notorious for poor mobile signal due to window coating and wifi not working), etc… Thankfully on each occasion I’ve had CCST. I’ve never had a TVM failure or been unable to collect due queues etc nor have I lost a CCST. IMO printed tickets are just easier to rely on and a simpler user experience at station barriers and on trains.
No need for signal! The only time you need signal is when you are buying the tickets; you simply need to save the PDF onto the device and there is then no need for any internet connection whatsoever from that point onwards.

As for the possibility of running out of power on your phone, the options are:
  • bring a battery/power bank
  • bring an alternative device (e.g. if I am travelling long distance and/or for work I will have a laptop with me)
  • print the PDF
Alternatively, if travelling with a friend/colleague, they could have a copy

If you are travelling alone, have no access to a printer, a power bank or any alternative device, then yes it may be best to get a printed ticket, but anyone in this position may struggle with plane/ferry journeys and access to many events/museums/places of interest, etc.
 

johncrossley

Established Member
Joined
30 Mar 2021
Messages
2,976
Location
London
As I mentioned recently, as an additional backup I upload the pdfs to a pCloud address of the format u.pc.cd/****, so that I can ask a friendly stranger or member of staff to open it for me if something happens to my phone.
 

Silver Cobra

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2015
Messages
866
Location
Bedfordshire
I must admit that I used to be a sceptic of e-tickets/m-tickets, after a bad experience with using such a ticket with Stagecoach in Bedfordshire where the driver of a bus on Route 72 refused to accept a Stagecoach Bedfordshire Dayrider Plus on the Stagecoach app, adamantly claiming it was an Arriva ticket and therefore not valid on Stagecoach buses (how exactly that works, I don't know). However in the last year or so, I've begun using these tickets quite regularly, particularly with LNER. In the last 4 months, less than half of the train tickets I've purchased have been on CCST, with all the rest being e-tickets purchased either through LNER, Avanti or TPE.
 

LOL The Irony

On Moderation
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
after a bad experience with using such a ticket with Stagecoach in Bedfordshire where the driver of a bus on Route 72 refused to accept a Stagecoach Bedfordshire Dayrider Plus on the Stagecoach app, adamantly claiming it was an Arriva ticket and therefore not valid on Stagecoach buses.
I do hope you complained and got your money back if you had to buy a new ticket.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,726
As for the possibility of running out of power on your phone, the options are:
  • bring a battery/power bank
  • bring an alternative device (e.g. if I am travelling long distance and/or for work I will have a laptop with me)
  • print the PDF
Yeah, just more unnecessary weight / crap to lug around when there’s a perfect very lightweight and simple solution available - CCST. Downloading PDFs to iPhone is also a bit of a faff, so mobile signal for email app is easier - as long as there’s a signal - or screenshot the barcodes, if you remember to do so. CCST just easier all round.
 
Last edited:

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
Yeah, just more unnecessary weight / crap to lug around when there’s a perfect very lightweight and simple solution available - CCST. Downloading PDFs to iPhone is also a bit of a faff, so mobile signal for email app is easier - as long as there’s a signal - or screenshot the barcodes, if you remember to do so. CCST just raise all round.
I think this is down to personal preference but I'd take a different view.

I just bought a ticket for tomorrow; I will not have much time between finishing work and taking the train; I want to go direct to the platform and not via a ticket machine! I will make sure my phone is fully charged before I go; if I wasn't able to do this, I'd either bring a charger, or send a copy of the ticket to someone who I will be travelling with or print a copy when I am at work.

I've also had occasions where I collected a ticket in advance and then forgot to take with with me to work, or I couldn't remember if I had collected it or not.. TOD/CCST really is a faff in my opinion.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,269
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
As for the possibility of running out of power on your phone, the options are:
  • bring a battery/power bank
  • bring an alternative device (e.g. if I am travelling long distance and/or for work I will have a laptop with me)
  • print the PDF
Alternatively, if travelling with a friend/colleague, they could have a copy
All I ever need to do is bring the CCST in my wallet. Never had a single difficulty in seventy years of rail travel with that method.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
All I ever need to do is bring the CCST in my wallet. Never had a single difficulty in seventy sears of rail travel with that method.
Yes but you need to allow time to collect the ticket; you either need to do this in advance (and store it in a safe place and remember to pick it up before your trip) or allow for extra time at the station (bearing in mind machines may be out of action or there may be a queue or there may be an error etc). You then need to ensure you do not lose the ticket.

I am often away for several days at a time and may do several journeys e.g. later this month I will travel York - Stafford; Stafford - Coventry; Coventry - Cardiff, then local travel in that area and finally Abergavenny - York. I'd need to ensure I had collected all relevant tickets for that journey before I set off. I then need to store and ensure I do not lose all of those tickets while I am away.

I find it far easier to just have the e-tickets saved and not have to worry about faffing about.
 

LOL The Irony

On Moderation
Joined
29 Jul 2017
Messages
5,335
Location
Chinatown, New York
Yes but you need to allow time to collect the ticket; you either need to do this in advance (and store it in a safe place and remember to pick it up before your trip) or allow for extra time at the station (bearing in mind machines may be out of action or there may be a queue or there may be an error etc). You then need to ensure you do not lose the ticket.
Well I'm in the fortunate position of having a dog, so I can walk him to the station and collect the tickets, killing 2 birds with 1 stone. Once again, if they can get e-tickets to fit onto CCST, that'd be the best option.
 

Silver Cobra

Member
Joined
4 Jun 2015
Messages
866
Location
Bedfordshire
I do hope you complained and got your money back if you had to buy a new ticket.

Thankfully the driver relented after 5 minutes and let me travel without buying a new ticket, but not before annoying the other passengers with the delay and telling me that if an inspector boarded en-route I would likely get in trouble for 'not having a valid ticket' (an elderly gentleman offered to buy a new ticket for me, but I politely declined his offer, seeing that I did have a valid ticket). I will admit that this was during the first few months of when Stagecoach mobile tickets became available here in Bedfordshire back in 2017, so the driver may not have been fully briefed about them, but the fact that demonstrating it was a Stagecoach ticket in the Stagecoach bus app wasn't enough to convince them did irk me quite badly at the time.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,726
anyone in this position may struggle with plane/ferry
I have very little idea about ferries, and the one time I used an e-ticket on Hovertravel their device wouldn’t read the bar code on my iPad and they had to check the reservation manually - I suspect I’d need a very benevolent guard for that to happen on a train. And NO airline I am aware of requires a passenger to have an e-ticket available on a mobile device - all can find the reservation given the pax name and / or PNR reference. Certainly a boarding pass is required and that can be mobile, but every reasonable airline (I’m not counting a Scumbag O’Riley’s airline and the likes as reasonable) will print a boarding pass at checkin / bag drop. I’ve been to places such as the US and Far East in plenty of occasions and never felt the need to use a mobile device as part of the airport process. IMO it would be a very sad day if our railway enforces eticketing.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,269
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
Yes but you need to allow time to collect the ticket; you either need to do this in advance (and store it in a safe place and remember to pick it up before your trip) or allow for extra time at the station (bearing in mind machines may be out of action or there may be a queue or there may be an error etc). You then need to ensure you do not lose the ticket.

I am often away for several days at a time and may do several journeys e.g. later this month I will travel York - Stafford; Stafford - Coventry; Coventry - Cardiff, then local travel in that area and finally Abergavenny - York. I'd need to ensure I had collected all relevant tickets for that journey before I set off. I then need to store and ensure I do not lose all of those tickets while I am away.

I find it far easier to just have the e-tickets saved and not have to worry about faffing about.
As I have stated before, I purchase rail tickets in advance and do so as part and parcel of visits to various places on that particular day. I have never lost or mislaid a purchased rail ticket in seventy years of rail travel

That journey you have described above.is not what a normal rail traveller would have as a rail journey itinerary.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
67,438
Location
Yorkshire
As I have stated before, I purchase rail tickets in advance and do so as part and parcel of visits to various places on that particular day.
Yes and we've addressed that.

The average person doesn't use their free bus pass to enjoy a random journey to their rail station to collect tickets for future travel; it's great that you can do this, but it's not the norm.
I have never lost or mislaid a purchased rail ticket in seventy years of rail travel
That's good for you but not everyone is in that position!
That journey you have described above.is not what a normal rail traveller would have as a rail journey itinerary.
And yet "normal" rail travellers also prefer e-tickets.

My point is that not all journeys are as simple as going from home to somewhere and back again. Also I suspect you will find that many people, after leaving their house, will often go to multiple destinations before returning home. Not everyone does an out and back to just one place. But either way, most people find e-tickets more suitable for almost all scenarios.

To be honest, your posts are turning me against TOD even more and making me realise just how rubbish that system is compared to modern methods.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

Veteran Member
Joined
17 Apr 2011
Messages
32,269
Location
A semi-rural part of north-west England
My point is that not all journeys are as simple as going from home to somewhere and back again. Also I suspect you will find that many people, after leaving their house, will often go to multiple destinations before returning home. Not everyone does an out and back to just one place.
Some of the day-visit journeys that we used to make were not short rail journeys, such as Wilmslow to Hereford or Manchester Airport to Durham. These are destinations where it was just not the cathedral that we were visiting, but many other places of interest in the city.
 

johncrossley

Established Member
Joined
30 Mar 2021
Messages
2,976
Location
London
To be honest, your posts are turning me against TOD even more and making me realise just how rubbish that system is compared to modern methods.

It sounds like he doesn't even use TOD. He only gets his tickets from actual humans.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top