Are e-tickets the way forward?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,459
Do you also still use your local bank branch , phone the speaking clock, post letters , make phone calls with landlines. Pay with a physical credit/debit card etc etc etc?
Bank branch - yes, sometimes, mainly to use the ATM
Phone the speaking clock - no I have a wrist watch that tells me the time
Post letters - again, occasionally when it’s necessary
Make phone calls with landlines - yes, almost always while I’m at home in preference to the mobile
Pay with a physical credit / debit card - yes, almost always except when using cash
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
1,839
Having scanned most of this thread with a bowl of popcorn, I think most is irrelevant, as like it or not, CCST is not long for this world!
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
8,192
Of the older people on this thread who remember them, did you have the same opposition to replacing Edmondson tickets with CCST?
I seem to recall there were several different types of ticket format in between those, including till rolls! Even 20 years ago CCST wasn't universal - we were issuing unwieldy ATB tickets then.
 

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
1,839
I seem to recall there were several different types of ticket format in between those, including till rolls! Even 20 years ago CCST wasn't universal - we were issuing unwieldy ATB tickets then.
Who remembers SPORTIS rolls?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I seem to recall there were several different types of ticket format in between those, including till rolls! Even 20 years ago CCST wasn't universal - we were issuing unwieldy ATB tickets then.

I never had an issue with ATB tickets, they fitted nicely into the notes part of my wallet and could have all (up to 3 I think) reservations printed on them, avoiding the "deck of cards" issue.

Who remembers SPORTIS rolls?

Yep, basically the same as "bog roll" but shorter format and no barcode.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,459
Eh? To pay on an iPhone you double tap the button on the right and look at the phone to unlock, then present it like a debit card at the machine. I'm sure Android is broadly similar. Because there's no need to take it out of your wallet it's quicker and easier to prepare than a card.
On the assumption that a person also has to get a phone out of their pocket, the phone activation and retrieval of the card represents a couple more steps than using a physical card. I guess you don’t bother watching what happens in checkout queues - in my experience folks using mobile are almost always slower.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
On the assumption that a person also has to get a phone out of their pocket, the phone activation and retrieval of the card represents a couple more steps than using a physical card. I guess you don’t bother watching what happens in checkout queues - in my experience folks using mobile are almost always slower.

I just tried both and it takes me roughly half the amount of time to remove my phone from my pocket and present it to a card machine as it does to remove my wallet from my pocket, open it, select a card and present it. The button on my iPhone is exactly where my thumb goes when I take it out, so I can do the "double tap" while it is moving from my pocket to the payment terminal.

The people causing this issue are the same ones who are taken by surprise when they have to pay. I avoid those people by choosing to use self-checkouts, which are not something generally populated with people who can't use tech properly.
 

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
1,839
Certainly in terms of issuing tickets on train, CCST was a nightmare and I'm glad we've gone to PRT/E ticket issuing from our portable machines.

When we had the awful star mobile system, if you had a CCST printer and had a ticket jam part way, you had to non issue/refund the entire transaction and start again once you'd sorted out the ticket jam.
 

Skymonster

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2012
Messages
1,459
Having scanned most of this thread with a bowl of popcorn, I think most is irrelevant, as like it or not, CCST is not long for this world!
Typical anti-customer railway attitude: do as we want or tough. Ironically paper is still leading over e-tickets two-thirds to one-third in the poll on this very forum.
 

Haywain

Established Member
Joined
3 Feb 2013
Messages
8,192
On the assumption that a person also has to get a phone out of their pocket, the phone activation and retrieval of the card represents a couple more steps than using a physical card.
This is nonsense - I can pay far more quickly with a phone than I can with a physical card
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Typical anti-customer railway attitude: do as we want or tough. Ironically paper is still leading over e-tickets two-thirds to one-third in the poll on this very forum.

When it comes to tech this Forum is not anywhere near representative of the real world - it's positively Luddite in comparison.
 

RPI

Established Member
Joined
6 Dec 2010
Messages
1,839
Typical anti-customer railway attitude: do as we want or tough. Ironically paper is still leading over e-tickets two-thirds to one-third in the poll on this very forum.
Typical person in the 21st century answer you mean.

The poll means very little in terms of what the majority of actual normal passengers think, this is a forum of railway enthusiasts who will generally edge towards any nostalgic/i don't like change scenario.

The reality is the vast majority of passengers use e tickets and its passengers of all demographics too.
 

Trainbike46

Member
Joined
18 Sep 2021
Messages
188
Location
belfast
I do wonder how we ended up with so many ticket types. Why is PRT not the same as eTicket, but printed at the station/on the train? Why did anyone ever think mTickets are a good idea? What even are print at home tickets? Why would we need more types?

The way I see it all we really need is:
-smartcard (useful for seasons and PAYG)
-eTicket
-Some ticket that can be bought or collected at the sation. Preferably something like an eTicket printed on something like PRT, so you could collect the eticket at the station if you wanted to

That way you would only need to have the backend to deal with two things: whatever is needed for smartcard, and whatever is needed to deal with eTickets
 

Non Multi

Member
Joined
11 Dec 2017
Messages
1,034
It's effectively the same but the PRT can't be held on a phone, etc.
Is there no scope for an app function that could scan the PRT barcode with the phone camera and the app loads the ticket an electronic copy, or converts it into a duplicate PDF file.
 

James H

Member
Joined
25 Jun 2014
Messages
544
I don't know if SWR issues advances as e-tickets but the website gave the impression that installing their app was necessary.

Yes the website gives that impression, but it is wrong. It’s maddening that they give duff information about their own products.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Would a photograph of the barcode on a PRT work?

It'd scan, but it wouldn't technically be valid. I do think the two need merging and moving towards true e-ticketing, i.e. there always being a record in a database the barcode points to, allowing e.g. reissuing of a lost ticket.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
13,512
Location
0036
I always wait until the gate is closed before tapping my card on the barrier.
Definitely not a good idea in London especially at peak commuter hour :E
Whereas if I had an e-ticket I would have to switch my phone on and wait a couple of minutes for it to boot up, then try to get an internet connection, log onto the website I booked it on, download the ticket, then try to find where my phone has stored it and hope that the file hasn’t got corrupted as pdf files often tend to do.
Normal people don't keep their phones switched off, normal phones don't take a couple of minutes to boot up, and normal passengers will have stored their tickets on their phones. On my phone, a ticket that is to be used currently or in the near future will even become an option to pop open on the lock screen without needing to unlock the phone.

In short, you're not describing an actual scenario.
Cheque guarantee cards were a stupid and totally unnecessary idea. The card could simply have been used to process a card payment using a manual machine instead, exactly how credit cards were processed for many years.
They were good for paying on Wednesday when your account was overdrawn and your salary was going to credit on Friday :lol:

Also, debit cards only became generally available in the mid to late 90s.
Especially at barriers, its probably in sleep mode as you approach, need to wake it up, start the reverent app (TOC, email, browser, whatever), find the relevant barcode (may need scrolling if its in an email), and do all this one handed while approaching the barrier while carrying another bag. If you don’t do it soon enough, you clog up the barrier.
Also unrealistic; many phones will have a link on the lock screen to pop up the ticket, scan it, and you're done.

All that said, however, I rarely use e-tickets. The reason for this is that I'm resident in Southeastern land.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Why is this relevant? There is a stereotype that older people prefer to stick with older technology. By mentioning your age at regular intervals, that doesn't help in combatting such stereotypes.

My parents are a similar age, and while they'd probably print e-tickets out rather than use them on their phone, they'd certainly use them, if only Merseyrail would let them! They are well used to printing boarding cards for flights.
 

johncrossley

Established Member
Joined
30 Mar 2021
Messages
1,351
Location
London
Also, debit cards only became generally available in the mid to late 90s.

I got a NatWest Switch card when I opened my student account in October 1991.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switch_(debit_card)


I don't remember ever having a problem using it in any high street retailer or supermarket right from the beginning. I never used the cheque guarantee facility.
 

General Zod

Member
Joined
5 Jan 2008
Messages
541
I have only ever used paper tickets ( the standard CCS ones ) and am thinking of migrating to e-tickets in PDF format. I assume that the ticket will be emailed to me in the form of a PDF file which I can transfer onto my phone. What security measures / features are in place so this said file cannot be copied and used by another party ? Say I have an Advance Single for a particular long journey i.e. Kings Cross - Inverness , this ticket many be scanned to check validity several times en route ( I once encountered 3 checks one journey between kgx-inv) , what's stopping it being copied and given to someone else to use on the same journey ? As off peak returns are not reserved for a particular train at a specific time, they could be open to more abuse. Is scanning the same as the old style ink mark but it in effect leaves a digital 'proof of scan' mark instead ?
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I have only ever used paper tickets ( the standard CCS ones ) and am thinking of migrating to e-tickets in PDF format. I assume that the ticket will be emailed to me in the form of a PDF file which I can transfer onto my phone.

Yes. With some retailers (e.g. Trainsplit) you also have the option to add to the Apple Wallet or Google Pay, and with others they can also be seen in the retailer's app.

What security measures / features are in place so this said file cannot be copied and used by another party ? Say I have an Advance Single for a particular long journey i.e. Kings Cross - Inverness , this ticket many be scanned to check validity several times en route ( I once encountered 3 checks one journey between kgx-inv) , what's stopping it being copied and given to someone else to use on the same journey ? As off peak returns are not reserved for a particular train at a specific time, they could be open to more abuse. Is scanning the same as the old style ink mark but it in effect leaves a digital 'proof of scan' mark instead ?

Yes, but with more detail. Each scan records on a central database when it was scanned, where, who by and on what train. It's therefore very easy to see misuse. I do think it's a shame we can't see those scans, but I guess not knowing is itself a security feature.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Why not? Credit cards are 'old tech'. They were introduced in the UK in the 60s.

I don't use a credit card on a day to day basis, though I have one for emergencies and if I want to split a large purchase over a few months. I prefer to spend money I have. That isn't really a tech thing, it's a financial management thing.
 

CaptainHaddock

Established Member
Joined
10 Feb 2011
Messages
1,908
Normal people don't keep their phones switched off, normal phones don't take a couple of minutes to boot up, and normal passengers will have stored their tickets on their phones.
I disagree: normal people do not leave a gadget switched on when they're not using it. Why would you leave your mobile phone switched on if you don't wish to be disturbed?

I do however accept that I'm not what you might call a "normal" person but then most people on this forum would probably say they're not normal people either! ;)
 

General Zod

Member
Joined
5 Jan 2008
Messages
541
Yes. With some retailers (e.g. Trainsplit) you also have the option to add to the Apple Wallet or Google Pay, and with others they can also be seen in the retailer's app.



Yes, but with more detail. Each scan records on a central database when it was scanned, where, who by and on what train. It's therefore very easy to see misuse. I do think it's a shame we can't see those scans, but I guess not knowing is itself a security feature.
I would prefer to keep the pdf in a file manager app of sorts or pdf viewing app as opposed to downloading and installing the retailers apps.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
77,641
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
I disagree: normal people do not leave a gadget switched on when they're not using it. Why would you leave your mobile phone switched on if you don't wish to be disturbed?

So you can show an e-ticket when asked? Because it isn't just a phone, it's used for all sorts?

Normal people, i.e. the majority of people, leave their smartphone on at all times and charge it overnight daily.

I would prefer to keep the pdf in a file manager app of sorts or pdf viewing app as opposed to downloading and installing the retailers apps.

You can indeed do it that way if that is your preference. It's a very flexible format which is one of its key benefits.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top