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Are e-tickets the way forward?

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NoOnesFool

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It is not 'adding' to anyone's duties. It is doing exactly the same job a different way. The same kind of change that the rest of us just calmly go on with around 20 years ago.
Not exactly. It's a different method that I imagine requires different training. I have been warned not to go off topic but it's a different way of doing things that some RMT members didn't sign up for.
 
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Haywain

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A phone contract requires a credit check. Some people may fail these and it's advisable not to enter in to a new credit agreement, just before making a big application e.g. a loan for a new car or a mortgage. There's alternatives, like SMARTY, VOXI and Lebara, offering a hybrid between PAYG and pay monthly - no credit check and a rolling 1 month contract but you need to prepay for any 'out of allowance' use.
Giffgaff (and other mainstream providers) offer SIM only deals at under £10 a month with good data offerings, and these can be changed from month to month. There is really no need for anyone to have a contract if they don’t want one.
 

trainophile

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Goodness, I spent my entire working life having to adapt to new work practices that I didn’t sign up for!

Can I ask whether those of you who routinely print out your e-tickets do so at work? I find the cost of ink cartridges is prohibitive for home use where we have to buy our own supplies.
 

py_megapixel

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Not exactly. It's a different method that I imagine requires different training. I have been warned not to go off topic but it's a different way of doing things that some RMT members didn't sign up for.
Is the issue the RMT have not the idea of scanning e-tickets, but that TOCs are not providing appropriate training in the use of the new equipment? Because if so, that's a rather different kettle of fish.
 

yorkie

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And does it get you through the barriers at Warerloo as quickly as putting a card ticket into the slot?
It's quite similar yes (and without the possibility of a ticket you need to retain being kept by the barrier!)

Goodness, I spent my entire working life having to adapt to new work practices that I didn’t sign up for!
Some people have a different mindset, but it's not for this thread!
 

py_megapixel

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Can I ask whether those of you who routinely print out your e-tickets do so at work? I find the cost of ink cartridges is prohibitive for home use where we have to buy our own supplies.
e-tickets don't have to be printed in colour so a black & white home laser printer is perfectly adequate (and cheaper to run in the long term)
 

yorkie

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e-tickets don't have to be printed in colour so a black & white home laser printer is perfectly adequate (and cheaper to run in the long term)
Indeed and ink printers are a false economy too.

I rarely print e-tickets because if I am doing a longer journey I would have a backup device and/or a battery pack and/or charger with me; if I am travelling in a group I could give other members of the group my e-tickets (or ask to borrow their device to download them) if it came to it.

I have used e-tickets in various countries and not had a problem with them. However paper tickets can be problematic in their own ways, and we've seen that time and time again with threads regarding printing issues and all sorts.
 

NoOnesFool

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Now we have a thread dedicated to the topic, I feel appropriate to elaborate in my concerns. E tickets are not they way forward. Anything that requires a device to use is not inclusive to all people. I genuinely don't believe that the TOCs will leave it as an option alongside paper tickets, I believe they will use it to do away with ticket machines. This cannot be allowed to happen.
 

yorkie

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Now we have a thread dedicated to the topic, I feel appropriate to elaborate in my concerns. E tickets are not they way forward. Anything that requires a device to use is not inclusive to all people. I genuinely don't believe that the TOCs will leave it as an option alongside paper tickets, I believe they will use it to do away with ticket machines. This cannot be allowed to happen.
Surely in future ticket machines will print barcode tickets?
 

alistairlees

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Now we have a thread dedicated to the topic, I feel appropriate to elaborate in my concerns. E tickets are not they way forward. Anything that requires a device to use is not inclusive to all people. I genuinely don't believe that the TOCs will leave it as an option alongside paper tickets, I believe they will use it to do away with ticket machines. This cannot be allowed to happen.
Customers who don't want to buy eTickets on the internet will still be able to buy tickets from booking offices and TVMs (and, in some cases, on board trains).
 

nedchester

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Now we have a thread dedicated to the topic, I feel appropriate to elaborate in my concerns. E tickets are not they way forward. Anything that requires a device to use is not inclusive to all people. I genuinely don't believe that the TOCs will leave it as an option alongside paper tickets, I believe they will use it to do away with ticket machines. This cannot be allowed to happen.
It’s happened in the airline industry.

Customers who don't want to buy eTickets on the internet will still be able to buy tickets from booking offices and TVMs (and, in some cases, on board trains).

I’d put money on widespread booking office closures over the next few years.
 
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skyhigh

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Now we have a thread dedicated to the topic, I feel appropriate to elaborate in my concerns. E tickets are not they way forward. Anything that requires a device to use is not inclusive to all people. I genuinely don't believe that the TOCs will leave it as an option alongside paper tickets, I believe they will use it to do away with ticket machines. This cannot be allowed to happen.
There's no suggestion ticket machines will disappear - the only likely change is that magnetic strip tickets will go. Ticket machines and ticket offices will continue in some form - but print Aztec codes on paper roll rather than credit card sized card.
 

NoOnesFool

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in some cases, on board trains).
Are you implying that there might be a 'Promise To Pay' scheme like what Northern do for those who don't want to pay with a bank card at TVMs? This is what concerns me, they introduced card payments to TVMs alongside cash. Then they removed the cash option at many of their TVMs. How can we be assured that they won't do the same with hard tickets? The LNER website now automatically selects E-tickets if you book with them, which has caused me many an issue as it is easy to miss. The fact that they automatically select E-tickets suggests a push for them to be used as the first option. I don't think this is a good thing, as they might then argue that hard tickets are redundant, just as TOCs have tried to argue that cash is redundant when I have queried them on why their TVMs don't take it. E tickets are not usable for :- People who do not have a mobile telephone, elderly people who are less familiar with technology, people with mental impairments or people who perhaps their phone has broken/been lost. I am worried about a situation where if someone for what ever reason doesn't have a mobile phone and will be unable to travel. My examples of what has happened with cash at TVMs demonstrate my right to be concerned.
 

yorkie

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Are you implying that there might be a 'Promise To Pay' scheme like what Northern do for those who don't want to pay with a bank card at TVMs? ...
There is no contractual or legal requirement to use such machines, but that's a whole new topic, not for this thread!

If you cannot obtain the required ticket at the origin, using your chosen valid payment method, you can buy on board.
.... TOCs have tried to argue that cash is redundant when I have queried them on why their TVMs don't take it. ...
Out of interests, which TOCs don't accept cash for online ticket sales, and if a customer boards at an unstaffed station and is paying by cash, what happens next?
 
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Sonic1234

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The LNER website now automatically selects E-tickets if you book with them
This is probably one of the main factors of the high rate of e-ticket takeup, even on TOCs like Southern which seem lukewarm to e-tickets.

I wonder what the e-ticket refusal rate is, not just what overall % of journeys are they used for but how many people are buying tickets online on flows where they are available and are actively choosing paper tickets?
 

alistairlees

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Are you implying that there might be a 'Promise To Pay' scheme like what Northern do for those who don't want to pay with a bank card at TVMs? This is what concerns me, they introduced card payments to TVMs alongside cash. Then they removed the cash option at many of their TVMs. How can we be assured that they won't do the same with hard tickets? The LNER website now automatically selects E-tickets if you book with them, which has caused me many an issue as it is easy to miss. The fact that they automatically select E-tickets suggests a push for them to be used as the first option. I don't think this is a good thing, as they might then argue that hard tickets are redundant, just as TOCs have tried to argue that cash is redundant when I have queried them on why their TVMs don't take it. E tickets are not usable for :- People who do not have a mobile telephone, elderly people who are less familiar with technology, people with mental impairments or people who perhaps their phone has broken/been lost. I am worried about a situation where if someone for what ever reason doesn't have a mobile phone and will be unable to travel. My examples of what has happened with cash at TVMs demonstrate my right to be concerned.
Cash remains a required method of payment. I don't see that changing.
All your points about eTickets requiring mobile phones are incorrect - no mobile phone is required. Etickets are also perfectly usable for 'elderly' people (I think you make a massive, and unfounded, generalisation in asserting that they are 'not familiar with technology') and also people with (as you describe it) 'mental impairments'. As a reminder, eTickets come in a physical form too - they are not exclusively digital. Using an A4 eticket is similar to using a magstripe ticket.

I wonder what the e-ticket refusal rate is, not just what overall % of journeys are they used for but how many people are buying tickets online on flows where they are available and are actively choosing paper tickets?
Exremely low - about 1% or 2%.
 

NoOnesFool

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Out of interests, which TOCs don't accept cash for online ticket sales, and if a customer boards at an unstaffed station and is paying by cash, what happens next?
I was referring to ticket vending machines, as I think it is a good example of why people ought to be concerned about E tickets. The situation with Northern is, that you have to ask the machine to issue a 'Promise To Pay' notice and present this to the guard onboard for a ticket.
 

Bald Rick

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E tickets are not usable for …. people with mental impairments

Good grief. Please give yourself a talking to.

Leaving aside the terminology, my children have ‘mental impairments’ - in that they have neurodevelopmental disorders. One of them would find it very difficult, probably impossible, to buy a paper ticket from a booking office or ticket machine. But is more than comfortable buying and using e-tickets.
 

JonathanH

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There's no suggestion ticket machines will disappear - the only likely change is that magnetic strip tickets will go. Ticket machines and ticket offices will continue in some form - but print Aztec codes on paper roll rather than credit card sized card.
In the South East I think that will depend on the take up of PAYG (and the future fare structure). If there is no advantage to having a ticket purchased before travelling there won't need to be ticket machines.
 

alistairlees

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Catering retail onboard, not good when there are still tens of thirsty people to serve.

Is Wi-Fi/mobile needed to open the app and display the ticket?
Stop going on about mobile phones. You don't need a phone. You don't need an app.

You can buy an eTicket from a website. Your eTicket will then be emailed to you. You can then print it out OR show it on a phone (or do both).

You do not need a phone.
 

Haywain

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Catering retail onboard, not good when there are still tens of thirsty people to serve.
But no more than 2 of them will be expecting to pay cash and both of them can probably pay by card.

Catering retail onboard, not good when there are still tens of thirsty people to serve.

Is Wi-Fi/mobile data needed to open the app and display the ticket?
No app is needed to show an eTicket and therefore no WiFi or mobile data is required.
 

NoOnesFool

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Out of interest, what proportion of your customers pay by card, by mobile phone and by cash?
70% Cash, 30% Card/Phone

No app is needed to show an eTicket and therefore no WiFi or mobile data is required.
Is it downloaded from an Email link?

In theory. Maybe some TOCs transitioned better than others from standard ticket stock to all manner of things passing for a 'ticket' nowadays, but I know people who were 'ticket monsters' in the past who have largely given up now, the whole thing having become a right faff for far less reward. I'm not in the revenue game anymore admittedly, but I couldn't tell you whether something is or isn't a 'ticket' anymore, let alone whether it's valid for the journey being taken.
Do you ever come across fake Etickets that people have made on their phone/computer?
 

yorkie

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70% Cash, 30% Card/Phone


Is it downloaded from an Email link?
Once downloaded onto any device (or printed), no internet connection is needed.

Do you ever come across fake Etickets that people have made on their phone/computer?
I am sure some people try to do that, but you cannot fake the Aztec barcode as it is encrypted, so much harder to get away with forging e-tickets than paper tickets.

I've been shown paper tickets which were counterfeit (made in Romania by a professional gang, I was told) and asked to work out what was fake about them and it was really hard to do; nearly all staff simply accepted them and they worked the ticket barriers.

70% Cash, 30% Card/Phone
now? surely not! a few years ago?
 
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