Are people more reluctant to take a free seat due to Covid?

[Master Cutler]

in my opinion, the risk to the travelling public is not the proximity of passengers to each other but the fact they now don't all wear masks.
Several journeys I've made recently were shoulder to shoulder in the aisles with several travellers not wearing masks.
I was under the impression that masks are considered the most effective way to reduce COVID transmission.

 

[lkpridgeon]

Yes people seem to be more reluctant to take up/offer up free seats from my recent experience however it does seem to be getting better/back to normal albeit rather slowly.

I've had a couple of no's when I've asked and an as long as you move when a double seat comes free.

If the journey is short and there isn't a seat pair available I'll often just stand instead of asking. I used to not ask and just sit where there wasn't a bag.

 

[Yew]

in my opinion, the risk to the travelling public is not the proximity of passengers to each other but the fact they now don't all wear masks.
Several journeys I've made recently were shoulder to shoulder in the aisles with several travellers not wearing masks.
I was under the impression that masks are considered the most effective way to reduce COVID transmission.

Unfortunately, when it comes down to statisically significant results from randomised control trials, they have generally been found to be ineffective; not that the 'infographics' on Facebook and twitter would have you believe that.

 

[galwhv69]

Yes, have never found it a problem before Covid, but now on most buses/trains I travel on, people will not sit next to each other, but somehow standing next to another person is completely different? Though this week, I have spotted a small number of services where people have started taking all the seats first before standing

 

[Dent]

in my opinion, the risk to the travelling public is not the proximity of passengers to each other but the fact they now don't all wear masks.
Several journeys I've made recently were shoulder to shoulder in the aisles with several travellers not wearing masks.

There is no real evidence of masks making any difference.

I was under the impression that masks are considered the most effective way to reduce COVID transmission.

What gave you that impression?

 

[John Luxton]

From my recent experience, (I only started travelling on network trains after July 19th as I can't stand "face nappies") the answer to this question appears to be it varies from train to train and possibly basically individuals doing their own risk assessment. I have generally found other unmasked people tend to sit closer to fellow unmasked travellers than the masked. Security in numbers?

A few weeks ago I was on a busy Chester to Liverpool service and a group of women boarded at Bache all masked three of them occupying the 4 seat bay where I was sitting. Chatting away as the trip went on their masks gradually migrated down their faces as the journey continued and were round their chins by the time they alighted at Moorfields!

 

[Master Cutler]

There is no real evidence of masks making any difference.



What gave you that impression?

Seeing doctors and medical workers using masks as an essential part of their PPE gives the mpression that they reduce the risk of spreading infections.

 

[John Luxton]

Seeing doctors and medical workers using masks as an essential part of their PPE gives the mpression that they reduce the risk of spreading infections.

There has been quite a lot of debate on this - but from what I have gathered it is to protect the doctor from bodily fluid splashes from the patient and prevent open wounds / operation sites from being infected by bacteria from the medics.

It is a completely different scenario with masks for Covid.

People generally do not get that close to others as do medics.

I would imagine that most people when having a conversation keeps a respectful distance to preserve personal body space. Only those showing aggression or with certain special needs appear to flout this convention. Having worked in special education for many years it was necessary to inform some children of the need not to invade other people's personal body space.

The science on facemasks is very fuzzy.

In spring 2020 we were told masks were of no benefit.

Many believe that governments introduced face masks as a psychological crutch for for the worried well and to be seen to be doing something to gain favour when it comes to election time.

It would be interesting to see if those of us who have refused to wear the dreadful things have been any worse off in terms of catching Covid during the past 18 months than those that have worn them. That is a study that needs to be done.

As a mask and restriction refusnik I am still as fit and healthy as I was 18 months ago.

Yes Covid is a problem, it unfortunately kills some and makes others very ill.

But so does flu!

We just need to learn to live with it and that finally appears to be the decision the politicos appear to be making as they realise the magic money tree is finally empty.

If C19 doesn't get you that HGV with the faulty brakes might!

 

[Bantamzen]

Seeing doctors and medical workers using masks as an essential part of their PPE gives the mpression that they reduce the risk of spreading infections.

@John Luxton has articulated it very well above, but I feel the point needs re-enforcing. Masks used in medical scenarios require a rigorous and strict discipline. Making sure you sanitise before and after putting on it replacing a mask. Changing them at least every 4 hours, or when they have been touched. Using only masks approved for that purpose, and so on.

Can you honestly say the same discipline is practiced among the general public?

 

[Killingworth]

@John Luxton has articulated it very well above, but I feel the point needs re-enforcing. Masks used in medical scenarios require a rigorous and strict discipline. Making sure you sanitise before and after putting on it replacing a mask. Changing them at least every 4 hours, or when they have been touched. Using only masks approved for that purpose, and so on.

Can you honestly say the same discipline is practiced among the general public?

No, nothing remotely like!

 

[Phil R]

From my observations I'd say there is a slight hesitancy to invade, and people seem more content to stand in closer proximity to others, which seems crazy, but then that always has been the case to some extent.
A couple of recent observations verge on the comical regards the behaviour of the continuing enthusiastic mask wearers. Train home yesterday was the one door one coach train effect with maskers sat on top of each other. I took a seat at the back of the unit and sat in splendid isolation in a bay of 6. Today, a local trundle about, train arrives, keen maskers pile in and sit/stand wedged in. Three minutes later a train to the same destination rolls in, virtually empty... again, which empty bay shall I have?

 

[greyman42]

A couple of recent observations verge on the comical regards the behaviour of the continuing enthusiastic mask wearers. Train home yesterday was the one door one coach train effect with maskers sat on top of each other. I took a seat at the back of the unit and sat in splendid isolation in a bay of 6. Today, a local trundle about, train arrives, keen maskers pile in and sit/stand wedged in. Three minutes later a train to the same destination rolls in, virtually empty... again, which empty bay shall I have?

Typical mask wearer logic.

 

[bramling]

Typical mask wearer logic.

Just like the “You’re so germy and dangerous that I’m going to come up to your face and confront you”, which is another odd and contradictory behaviour we’ve seen. Surely if one believes in the importance of masks then keeping away from bare faces is the logical thing to be doing.

I’d certainly agree there’s no correlation between mask wearing and keeping distance, again rather contradictory, especially as it’s been emphasised all along even by the government that masks are at best only of small benefit.

 

[Master Cutler]

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

This historical page is not up to date. Find the latest on COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

Evidence for Effectiveness of Masks

Your mask helps protect those around you​

COVID-19 spreads mainly from person to person through respiratory droplets. Respiratory droplets travel into the air when you cough, sneeze, talk, shout, or sing. These droplets can then land in the mouths or noses of people who are near you or they may breathe these droplets in.

Masks are a simple barrier to help prevent your respiratory droplets from reaching others. Studies show that masks reduce the spray of droplets when worn over the nose and mouth.

You should wear a mask, even if you do not feel sick. This is because several studies have found that people with COVID-19 who never develop symptoms (asymptomatic) and those who are not yet showing symptoms (pre-symptomatic) can still spread the virus to other people. Wearing a mask helps protect those around you, in case you are infected but not showing symptoms.

It is especially important to wear a mask when you are indoors with people you do not live with and when you are unable to stay at least 6 feet apart since COVID-19 spreads mainly among people who are in close contact with one another.

Your mask offers some protection to you​

A cloth mask also offers some protection to you too. How well it protects you from breathing in the virus likely depends on the fabrics used and how your mask is made (such as the type of fabric, the number of layers of fabric, and how well the mask fits). CDC is currently studying these factors.

​

 

[davews]

As I posted elsewhere, my 0902 Martins Heron to Richmond on Wednesday was a 5 coach 458 and packed. Every seat taken and quite a lot standing. I sensed no reluctance from anybody to sit next to whoever, masked or not.

I was slightly amused on my afternoon walk this afternoon to pass those waiting for the Rail replacement bus outside Martins Heron and they all seemed to be social distancing themselves from each other spread way down the car park. Maybe the virus spreads faster in the rain!

 

[Bantamzen]

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

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Here we go again....

We have discussed this issue to death, and there is no verifiable evidence that masks used in public settings have any effect on transmission. In fact observational data of infection rates versus mask being made mandatory appears to support this. You might want to re-read the relevant thread on the subject to see the debate.

 

[Master Cutler]

Apologies for the lack of clarity in my post Bantamzen, I was responding to Dent's question of "What gave you that impression?" but for some reason his Quote didn't appear.
It was to illustrate the confusing mass of misleading information from official sources that has surrounded this whole mask wearing debate since the start of the pandemic.

 

[Hadders]

Quite amusing getting on a busy train and having to evict luggage from a seat so I can sit down. Had to do it a few times recently.

 

[Bantamzen]

COVID-19 ARCHIVED WEBPAGE

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www.cdc.gov

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Ah OK for you, sorry too!

 

[Furryanimal]

Yesterday I went from Newport to Colwyn bay via Birmingham( to avoid the replacement bus on the Marches line) and despite being on two very busy trains no one sat next me-apart from Worcestershire Parkway to Birmingham by which time it was standing room only- despite me moving my bag off the seat at each station!
No one sat next to me on the evening train down to Shrewsbury either.
Nor on the busy replacement bus down to Wales!

 

[SurreyCommuter]

In middle class Surrey they are definitely more reluctant to! Albeit I have only made 4 train journeys in the last couple of months or so. On 2 of them I managed to keep a pair of airline seats on a Cl444 to myself, on one other one I kept half a bay of 6 on a Cl450 to myself and on the final one I retained a 'buffer' seat on a row of 3 on a Cl450. All of these journeys were maskless from my perspective and there were also people standing in the vestibules.

I noticed something similar on the Tube when using the Northern Line to get to the Test cricket at the Oval. Coming up from Morden the only people sat right next to each other on the train were me and my dad with everyone else maintaining at least a seat's gap next to them. Again there were plenty of people standing who could have sat down but didn't.

 

[nedchester]

Yes people seem to be more reluctant to take up/offer up free seats from my recent experience however it does seem to be getting better/back to normal albeit rather slowly.

I've had a couple of no's when I've asked and an as long as you move when a double seat comes free.

If the journey is short and there isn't a seat pair available I'll often just stand instead of asking. I used to not ask and just sit where there wasn't a bag.

I think I’d just sit down if the seat was free and if they had a bag on the seat and said no I’d politely hand the bag to them and sit down.

 

[camflyer]

Caught a train last week and sat down diagonally opposite a woman at a table for four. Both of us wearing masks. She looked shocked and yelped "You can't sit there! Social distancing!"

I politely told her that I could and that I couldn't see any spare seats that didn't involve sitting next to someone.

"Well, you will have to stand up then"

When I declined her offer the announced that she would have to move to first class and then left.

 

[dk1]

Love it when somebody gives me a huff & a puff or a grumpy look when I sit beside them. I then kill them with kindness & say things like “bless your heart” which adds some fuel to their fiery ignorant mood lol.

 

[Class 33]

Caught a train last week and sat down diagonally opposite a woman at a table for four. Both of us wearing masks. She looked shocked and yelped "You can't sit there! Social distancing!"

I politely told her that I could and that I couldn't see any spare seats that didn't involve sitting next to someone.

"Well, you will have to stand up then"

When I declined her offer the announced that she would have to move to first class and then left.

What a silly woman. If she said that to me, I would have replied back to her "I'm perfectly entitled to sit here. The social distancing nonsense was officially scrapped on 19th July!"

 

[dk1]

What a silly woman. If she said that to me, I would have replied back to her "I'm perfectly entitled to sit here. The social distancing nonsense was officially scrapped on 19th July!"

Me too. Who the hell does she think she is??

 

[43066]

What a silly woman. If she said that to me, I would have replied back to her "I'm perfectly entitled to sit here. The social distancing nonsense was officially scrapped on 19th July!"

I know what I’d have said, too, and it would have been a lot less less polite than that!

Luckily this kind of thing is becoming less and less of an issue. I’ve been on quite a few busy trains recently and the dwindling minority of people in masks haven’t reacted at all to non mask wearers sitting next to them. Exactly the way it should be!

 

[yorkie]

I've not been aware of any disputes since the mask mandate was lifted.

I have made many journeys by train since the pandemic and it is rare that someone (who I am not travelling with) has sat next to me, and this is with a variety of operators.

I switched from 1st to Standard on LNER during the period when fewer people were travelling, but switched back to 1st since then. For example on Thursday I will be getting a busy train from York to London. I have paid the extra to go 1st (I think it was about £15) for various reasons. It's not because I don't want to be near other people; prior to getting the train I'll have been in a room with 25-30 people and later that evening I will be in a restaurant which will no doubt be busy too. So I just want a couple of hours where I can relax, listen to music with headphones, look out the window a bit, get some work/forum related stuff done on the laptop, and have a bit of peace and quiet in an otherwise busy day. It's just my preference and Covid has not changed that.

But if anyone else shares that preference (for any reason), they are going to have to stump up the extra to go 1st class and obtain an individual seat. Or travel at a time when trains are very quiet. No-one can, nor should, try to stop anyone sitting near them.

Caught a train last week and sat down diagonally opposite a woman at a table for four. Both of us wearing masks. She looked shocked and yelped "You can't sit there! Social distancing!"

I politely told her that I could and that I couldn't see any spare seats that didn't involve sitting next to someone.

"Well, you will have to stand up then"

When I declined her offer the announced that she would have to move to first class and then left.

Good for you for sticking up for yourself; sounds like you handled it very well indeed.

On a train which is not too busy but busy enough, anyone sat at a table should expect that others may wish to sit around them; it makes no sense to occupy a table seat and then expect to have exclusive use of the table, on any train other than one which is exceptionally quiet.

The sensible thing to do is sit diagonally opposite (this gives each person plenty of space and extra legroom!) which you did. LNER even reserved people in this manner during the height of the pandemic, so even when social distancing was in, this was an acceptable arrangement. If it wasn't, LNER would not have done this.

 

[43066]

The sensible thing to do is sit diagonally opposite (this gives each person plenty of space and extra legroom!) which you did. LNER even reserved people in this manner during the height of the pandemic, so even when social distancing was in, this was an acceptable arrangement. If it wasn't, LNER would not have done this.

Indeed. Sitting diagonally opposite was also the sensible (and polite) thing to do pre Covid, especially for those of us at the taller end of the scale. It’s odd how a small minority of people seem to have forgotten how to cope with being around strangers!

 

[MikeWM]

Someone has just taken the free seat next to me on this rather busy Cambridge-London service. Possibly the first time that's happened (excluding the London Underground etc.) since this all started... No-one in the vestibules, most seats taken.

Loadings on Cambridge-London on Saturday seem to have finally got back to 'normal', which is good to see.