Are there any true non-stop expresses left in the UK?

[YorksLad12]

It kept the Clansman name until it was ultimately discontinued.

Out of curiosity, why do you dislike the name?

Out of interest - why?

What's wrong with 'The Clansman'

The Highland Chieftain is very similar in nature.

And no, it kept it's name until withdrawal, being superceded by the Highland Chieftain though they did try one period of running both as fast direct services in summer 1986, after which the Clansman was downgraded again as per 1985.

As written, it's fine. As spoken... white hoods and flaming crosses were the first things that came to my mind. With my reputation management hat on, better to be safe than sorry (and all over the papers/socials).

 

[Trackman]

No, the down morning and up evening services didn't stop at Stockport for sure, in 1977 the evening service used the Styal line (It left Piccadilly at 16:43 and I sometimes went home on the 16:43 stopper to Stoke which left at the same time, the Pullman on the up slow and the Stoke stopper on the up fast). The down morning service from Euston in 1977 called at Wilmslow (probably Watford Junction also) and then went through Stockport without stopping. All the services called at Wilmslow, and the up morning and down evening Pullman services also called at Crewe. There may have been Watford Junction stops also (down morning and up evening I would guess).

In other words:

1H05 08:00 Euston - Watford - Wilmslow - Piccadilly 10:29 via Stockport
1H24 17:24 Euston - Crewe - Wilmslow - Stockport - Piccadilly 19:54
1A14 07:32 Piccadilly - Stockport - Wilmslow - Crewe - Euston ~10:00
1A67 16:43 Piccadilly - Wilmslow - Watford - Euston ~19:15 via Styal

I went on the 16:43 up evening service once because the guard is a good friend; I came back with him on a late return working from Euston to Manchester.

Were any of these services have stations that were pickup only?
I fancied a ride on one in the late 70's, apart from the eye-watering price I'm sure they said it was Piccadilly/London Euston only, hence why I asked the question if it was non-stop. Again it's a long time ago....

 

[D6975]

Unfortunately not non-stop from origin & they haven't actually started yet.

Yes they have, they started way back in the spring, I saw them running through Lawrence Hill. Needless to say they were suspended when the lockdown reductions came in.

 

[jfollows]

Were any of these services have stations that were pickup only?
I fancied a ride on one in the late 70's, apart from the eye-watering price I'm sure they said it was Piccadilly/London Euston only, hence why I asked the question if it was non-stop. Again it's a long time ago....

Yes, all the intermediate stops including Crewe were pick-up or set-down only on the Manchester Pullman services, as appropriate, so the morning up service would have been as 'London Euston only' on the board and in the announcements at Manchester Piccadilly. I hadn't thought of that angle, but now that you mention it it makes sense. The up evening service would have been 'Watford Junction and London Euston only'.

The regular express services were also pick-up/set-down only at all the intermediate stations except Crewe as well, the 10:12 Manchester-Euston picked up at Stockport and Wilmslow only, then ran non-stop to London, so would also have appeared as serving 'London Euston only' at its departure stations.

It's a bit silly today that the long-distance services pick up and set down at Stockport, but it's all to do with money. During "Project Rio" I was on a Saint Pancras to Manchester service which ran very early and left Stockport early, I was tempted to complain but thought better of it - my motivation was only making trouble really.

 

[BigB]

As written, it's fine. As spoken... white hoods and flaming crosses were the first things that came to my mind. With my reputation management hat on, better to be safe than sorry (and all over the papers/socials).

I think Clansman predates the American loons by several centuries, and to change it for that reason would be, to quote the Daily Mail "political correctness gone mad".

I just think of Still Game....

 

[dk1]

Yes they have, they started way back in the spring, I saw them running through Lawrence Hill. Needless to say they were suspended when the lockdown reductions came in.

Well you learn something everyday. They where postponed at the start of the Dec 19 TT change & I was under the impression they never started. Modern Railway magazine where stating recently that the introduction of Bristol Superfasts had been put off indefinitely so I assumed they had never started.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Pardon me for nostalgia - but in 1928 the LMS ran Euston - Edinburgh non stop on a short train with a Compound and presumably a well stocked tender of good coal. The crew and inspector must have been well rested and a good supply of food and drink (presumably tea)

The bucket carried on engines must have been useful.

 

[70014IronDuke]

The last really long distance non stop express in the UK was the Elizabethan from Kings Cross to Edinburgh, with crews changing over half way via the corridor tender. This ended in 1962 when the Deltics took over. With modern multiple unit trains, I see no practical reason why a similar non stop run couldn't happen with a crew change on the move half way but no doubt all sorts of modern regulations would prevent it.
Population density in the UK works against such non stop runs and the development of places like Peterborough, Reading, Swindon, Milton Keynes etc. means that they are usually too important to miss.
This is the opposite of what has happened in aviation, when long distance routes to Australia and the far east used to be multi stop affairs but now we have a non stop flight to Australia and the industry would like to eliminate as many en-route stops as possible. On these very long haul services, of course, crews change over "on the move"!

I have argued (perhaps in here, I can't remember) that the Elizabethan was an expensive PR exercise. Paying for crews to ride the cushions for 3 hours and overnight in London or Edinburgh was, I suspect, a loss leader for the 'glory' of running non-stop. Far, far better to have stopped the train at York and/or Newcastle, change crews and save all those outgoings for what, a 6 min loss for the stop?

Pardon me for nostalgia - but in 1928 the LMS ran Euston - Edinburgh non stop on a short train with a Compound and presumably a well stocked tender of good coal. The crew and inspector must have been well rested and a good supply of food and drink (presumably tea)

The bucket carried on engines must have been useful.

One off though, wasn't it. I have always been amazed that they chose a compound for this run.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I have argued (perhaps in here, I can't remember) that the Elizabethan was an expensive PR exercise. Paying for crews to ride the cushions for 3 hours and overnight in London or Edinburgh was, I suspect, a loss leader for the 'glory' of running non-stop. Far, far better to have stopped the train at York and/or Newcastle, change crews and save all those outgoings for what, a 6 min loss for the stop?

Agreed - but why let practically get in the way of "PR" ...

In those far off days , changing locomotives at Grantham was deemed a sensible policy to boost reliabilty , and even in Deltic days , the London crews lodged overnight I understand in Newcastle. Different times , different standards.

 

[gallafent]

white hoods and flaming crosses were the first things that came to my mind

I'm pretty sure that's Klansman with a K.

 

[Iskra]

If the Sleepers are diverted via the East Coast, don't they run none stop Euston - Edinburgh

They stop at Doncaster gbrf, what looks like mail platforms. As I once discovered in the early hours. But, yes, no passenger stops.

And, they really don't run at 'Express' speeds...

 

[43055]

I was on a TGV once which was non-stop Paris-St Raphael (by-passing Marseille), a distance of about 900km (560 miles).
From memory that was 6 hours (the LGV finished at Valence in those days - late 90s).
Coming back the run was spoilt by an SNCF signaller's lunchtime strike so we had an hour stopped at Toulon.
These days the Nice TGVs call at Toulon anyway which reduces the non-stop runs to 5 hours.
They must be double crewed I expect.

I was reading about the TGV services the over day (Book from the mid-late 90's) and it states that the Paris - St Raphael non stop journey had a 3 min comfort stop for the driver at Valence so I sounds like it was the same driver at least throughout.

 

[hexagon789]

As written, it's fine. As spoken... white hoods and flaming crosses were the first things that came to my mind. With my reputation management hat on, better to be safe than sorry (and all over the papers/socials).

Now you've said that I can see where you coming from, but I'm pretty sure it was a reference to the Scottish Clans of the Highlands and nothing sinister such as the KKK.

 

[Deepgreen]

In the absence of any precise definition of the distance involved - Waterloo to Hampton Court flower show specials!

 

[4-SUB 4732]

In the absence of any precise definition of the distance involved - Waterloo to Hampton Court flower show specials!

Marvellous!

I do question the nature of the thread, however. Surely we are looking for two things:
- 1) Three capitals longest non-stop distance, by both time and by distance.
- 2) Single longest non-stop distances of any trains on the network by both time and distance.

Examples would be New Street to London non-stop, definitely a "real" two major city express; the previous London - Preston - Glasgow 16:30 one-stop; London - York. No idea what Cross Country's biggest non-stop is, but one assumes it won't actually be that long.

 

[hexagon789]

No idea what Cross Country's biggest non-stop is, but one assumes it won't actually be that long.

Anything run Bristol-Exeter non-stop?

That might be a contender if so

 

[Mag_seven]

Anything run Bristol-Exeter non-stop?

No - all Cross Country services call at Taunton.

 

[hexagon789]

No - all Cross Country services call at Taunton.

Oh well, I'll have to think of something else!

 

[Mag_seven]

Oh well, I'll have to think of something else!

I think there used to be something on a Sunday that ran non-stop Newcastle Edinburgh but that seems to have stopped.

 

[dk1]

No - all Cross Country services call at Taunton.

Last thing I remember on this route like that was around 2006 when Virgin XC hired in GNER HSTs & the 10:05(?) Paignton-Newcastle ran non-stop Torquay-Temple Meads.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

I think there used to be something on a Sunday that ran non-stop Newcastle Edinburgh but that seems to have stopped.

Well, 1E01 pre-Covid being fast from Edinburgh to Newcastle, and Newcastle to London is arguably the best of the lot?

 

[xotGD]

Well, 1E01 pre-Covid being fast from Edinburgh to Newcastle, and Newcastle to London is arguably the best of the lot?

Has it ever had to start short at Newcastle due to disruption further north? If so, then it would be a Newcastle - London non-stop express.

 

[55002]

The Master Cutler ran non stop Chesterfield to St Pancras in the early 90s.

Pre-covid suspension surely the Gatwick Express was the top UK non stop express - they certainly wanted people to pay a premium to use it.

Via Toton back in the day too, think was only passenger train to do that, this was in days of the Peaks though

 

[David Turner]

In the 1966 timetable the 1600 off Euston was non-stop to Manchester via Crewe in 2 hours 36 minutes. And there were several trains in both directions non-stop between Euston and Stockport just for that one year before the Stoke Loop service was commissioned.

In 1966 the 15.30 from Manchester Piccadilly was non stop to London Euston, scheduled in two hours and forty minutes. I travelled on it in September 1966 and it ran unchecked and arrived in Euston twenty one minutes early in two hours and nineteen minutes. That was when I lived in Scarborough - Yorkshire.

David Turner Adelaide South Australia

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

When I was younger I did board a Virgin Trains service from Glasgow at Oxenholme which hit up Preston only and then was non-stop to Euston. I don’t think it still runs now but it skipped Lancaster, Wigan and Warrington.

 

[Senex]

In 1966 the 15.30 from Manchester Piccadilly was non stop to London Euston, scheduled in two hours and forty minutes. I travelled on it in September 1966 and it ran unchecked and arrived in Euston twenty one minutes early in two hours and nineteen minutes. That was when I lived in Scarborough - Yorkshire.

David Turner Adelaide South Australia

That must have been quite a run, even by the standards of early running we saw in those first months of electric working! Do you remember before it actually began those worries about whether the new schedules would be too challenging?

 

[43055]

No idea what Cross Country's biggest non-stop is, but one assumes it won't actually be that long.

Looking at the timetable for XC I would say the longest non-stop runs for XC is Dunbar - Newcastle at around a hour and 5. There are also a few Alnmouth - Edinburgh runs as well which is around an hour.

 

[sprinterguy]

Although depending on how you define non-stop it may not count as it called at Wolverhampton and Sandwell & Dudley before New Street. About a third of them used to end up calling at International and Coventry anyway though, used to travel on this service once or twice a month pre COVID.

Ah yes, couldn't recall if it started at New Street or Wolverhampton, so probably doesn't meet the technical definition of non-stop after all.

I don't think I ever experienced International or Coventry stops in six months of almost daily use of the service for six months back in 2012, but things must be different more recently as you say.

 

[YorksLad12]

Now you've said that I can see where you coming from, but I'm pretty sure it was a reference to the Scottish Clans of the Highlands and nothing sinister such as the KKK.

I know. And it's a shame, really, that something historically accurate and innocent can be taken to mean something else. Part of my job is to spot things like this before they occur - just in case

 

[gg1]

Ah yes, couldn't recall if it started at New Street or Wolverhampton, so probably doesn't meet the technical definition of non-stop after all.

I don't think I ever experienced International or Coventry stops in six months of almost daily use of the service for six months back in 2012, but things must be different more recently as you say.

Seemed to be fairly common the past few years, there's a corresponding service starting from International which departed a few minutes after the non-stop service passed through, my guess is that whenever Virgin/Avanti had a problem with one of their Pendos, this service was top of the list to cancel to aid in a rejig of the diagrams.