Arriva Buses (including Greenline)

[Simon75]

I cant find a thread, so I'll start one

Arriva is a suspending its sale

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-a...e-arriva-flotation-sale-sources-idUKKBN1X011S

 

[Simon75]

From another forum

A rumour circulating is that Julian Peddle has enquired about acquiring the Arriva Winsford and Macclesfield depots (the former for D&G and the latter for High Peak), while Stagecoach have also enquired about acquiring Arriva depots in Cheshire

 

[Robertj21a]

From another forum

A rumour circulating is that Julian Peddle has enquired about acquiring the Arriva Winsford and Macclesfield depots (the former for D&G and the latter for High Peak), while Stagecoach have also enquired about acquiring Arriva depots in Cheshire

To be fair, there's numerous rumours about everything Arriva, or First, at present. A good proportion appears to be total rubbish !

 

[Statto]

To be fair, there's numerous rumours about everything Arriva, or First, at present. A good proportion appears to be total rubbish !

And on this forum they're mostly triggered by one particular member, & if i had a pound for everyone of his rumours that ended up false i'd be a billionaire many times over.

 

[Simon75]

What's the update with Arriva being sold/seperated from DB ?

 

[Volvodart]

I do not think much has happened since they announced, before Covid, that DB Arriva was to be listed in May 2020.

 

[Ken H]

On another thread, Arriva have agreed sale of Yorkshire Tiger to Transdev Blazefield. So some family silver sales happening.

 

[A0wen]

On another thread, Arriva have agreed sale of Yorkshire Tiger to Transdev Blazefield. So some family silver sales happening.

I suspect it won't be the last. DB want rid of Arriva, but the problem will be 12 months of Covid restrictions and no clear time when "normal" life returns, makes it difficult to see what is or isn't viable now. The only certainty is they'll have been making a humungous loss over the last 12 months, with the sole consolation that'll be true of Stagecoach, First, Go Ahead et al.

Not sure how it happened, but in many ways Arriva did manage to end up with alot of pups on its estate bus wise. I suspect even if it was floated, it will only be a matter of time before it gets dismantled, question is who gets what and what's left ?

If you look at their regional (i.e. non London) operations there are some outliers in some of them which could be susceptible to being sold on their own e.g.

Arriva NE - Whitby looks a bit 'out on a limb' - maybe one for Go Ahead to add onto EYMS.

Midlands - Derby's a bit out on a limb, so are Shrewsbury and Oswestry.

I think the biggest problem is the two companies that would probably be most interested in taking it on entirely - Stagecoach and GoAhead would probably run in to competition regulation problems, though given the impact of Covid, the CC regulators may take a slightly less aggressive view of things.

On the basis of not taking it all, I could see Stagecoach wanting the ex The Shires bits of the Midland operations - MK and Luton, and maybe Stevenage as well. Possibly Leicester would be another where the main competition is Centrebus.

The rest of the Shires / Kent Thameside etc, who knows ? As London Country that was a financial basket case when it was privatised nearly 4 decades ago.

The NW operations are a real 'bitsa' (bitsa this, bitsa that) - I can imagine there is some truth in Julian Peddle making enquiries about Macclesfield and Winsford, possibly Stagecoach wanting bits.

The North East is the one I reckon would be most hotly fought over between Go Ahead and Stagecoach - both would probably want those operations as being a good fit with their other operations.

 

[cnjb8]

I suspect it won't be the last. DB want rid of Arriva, but the problem will be 12 months of Covid restrictions and no clear time when "normal" life returns, makes it difficult to see what is or isn't viable now. The only certainty is they'll have been making a humungous loss over the last 12 months, with the sole consolation that'll be true of Stagecoach, First, Go Ahead et al.

Not sure how it happened, but in many ways Arriva did manage to end up with alot of pups on its estate bus wise. I suspect even if it was floated, it will only be a matter of time before it gets dismantled, question is who gets what and what's left ?

If you look at their regional (i.e. non London) operations there are some outliers in some of them which could be susceptible to being sold on their own e.g.

Arriva NE - Whitby looks a bit 'out on a limb' - maybe one for Go Ahead to add onto EYMS.

Midlands - Derby's a bit out on a limb, so are Shrewsbury and Oswestry.

I think the biggest problem is the two companies that would probably be most interested in taking it on entirely - Stagecoach and GoAhead would probably run in to competition regulation problems, though given the impact of Covid, the CC regulators may take a slightly less aggressive view of things.

On the basis of not taking it all, I could see Stagecoach wanting the ex The Shires bits of the Midland operations - MK and Luton, and maybe Stevenage as well. Possibly Leicester would be another where the main competition is Centrebus.

The rest of the Shires / Kent Thameside etc, who knows ? As London Country that was a financial basket case when it was privatised nearly 4 decades ago.

The NW operations are a real 'bitsa' (bitsa this, bitsa that) - I can imagine there is some truth in Julian Peddle making enquiries about Macclesfield and Winsford, possibly Stagecoach wanting bits.

The North East is the one I reckon would be most hotly fought over between Go Ahead and Stagecoach - both would probably want those operations as being a good fit with their other operations.

Centrebus more competes with First if anything in Leicester.
I agree that there depots seem to be all over the place, why Milton Keynes, Aylesbury and High Wycombe are managed from Leicester I'll never know.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Do they have anything left in North Wales? If so, it might be an opportunity for the WG to take it in house as it seems clear that they want to.

 

[cnjb8]

Do they have anything left in North Wales? If so, it might be an opportunity for the WG to take it in house as it seems clear that they want to.

Yes they do. They have depots in Wrexham, Rhyl, Chester (England) and Bangor.

 

[A0wen]

Do they have anything left in North Wales? If so, it might be an opportunity for the WG to take it in house as it seems clear that they want to.

Won't happen. The WG can want to do lots of things, but they're a glorified county council that has been making an utter hash of their health and education systems. They need to sort their priorities out rather than looking at what else they can meddle in.

And there's a problem that much of South Wales is in the hands of either Stagecoach or a couple of council companies.

 

[Statto]

Yes they do. They have depots in Wrexham, Rhyl, Chester (England) and Bangor.

Arriva Wales Chester Depot is actually in Hawarden North Wales, but Arriva call it Chester

 

[Robertj21a]

I suspect it won't be the last. DB want rid of Arriva, but the problem will be 12 months of Covid restrictions and no clear time when "normal" life returns, makes it difficult to see what is or isn't viable now. The only certainty is they'll have been making a humungous loss over the last 12 months, with the sole consolation that'll be true of Stagecoach, First, Go Ahead et al.

Not sure how it happened, but in many ways Arriva did manage to end up with alot of pups on its estate bus wise. I suspect even if it was floated, it will only be a matter of time before it gets dismantled, question is who gets what and what's left ?

If you look at their regional (i.e. non London) operations there are some outliers in some of them which could be susceptible to being sold on their own e.g.

Arriva NE - Whitby looks a bit 'out on a limb' - maybe one for Go Ahead to add onto EYMS.

Midlands - Derby's a bit out on a limb, so are Shrewsbury and Oswestry.

I think the biggest problem is the two companies that would probably be most interested in taking it on entirely - Stagecoach and GoAhead would probably run in to competition regulation problems, though given the impact of Covid, the CC regulators may take a slightly less aggressive view of things.

On the basis of not taking it all, I could see Stagecoach wanting the ex The Shires bits of the Midland operations - MK and Luton, and maybe Stevenage as well. Possibly Leicester would be another where the main competition is Centrebus.

The rest of the Shires / Kent Thameside etc, who knows ? As London Country that was a financial basket case when it was privatised nearly 4 decades ago.

The NW operations are a real 'bitsa' (bitsa this, bitsa that) - I can imagine there is some truth in Julian Peddle making enquiries about Macclesfield and Winsford, possibly Stagecoach wanting bits.

The North East is the one I reckon would be most hotly fought over between Go Ahead and Stagecoach - both would probably want those operations as being a good fit with their other operations.

Not sure that Shrewsbury is really out on a limb when Arriva has another busy operation in nearby Telford.

 

[Ken H]

I suspect it won't be the last. DB want rid of Arriva, but the problem will be 12 months of Covid restrictions and no clear time when "normal" life returns, makes it difficult to see what is or isn't viable now. The only certainty is they'll have been making a humungous loss over the last 12 months, with the sole consolation that'll be true of Stagecoach, First, Go Ahead et al.

Not sure how it happened, but in many ways Arriva did manage to end up with alot of pups on its estate bus wise. I suspect even if it was floated, it will only be a matter of time before it gets dismantled, question is who gets what and what's left ?

If you look at their regional (i.e. non London) operations there are some outliers in some of them which could be susceptible to being sold on their own e.g.

Arriva NE - Whitby looks a bit 'out on a limb' - maybe one for Go Ahead to add onto EYMS.

Midlands - Derby's a bit out on a limb, so are Shrewsbury and Oswestry.

I think the biggest problem is the two companies that would probably be most interested in taking it on entirely - Stagecoach and GoAhead would probably run in to competition regulation problems, though given the impact of Covid, the CC regulators may take a slightly less aggressive view of things.

On the basis of not taking it all, I could see Stagecoach wanting the ex The Shires bits of the Midland operations - MK and Luton, and maybe Stevenage as well. Possibly Leicester would be another where the main competition is Centrebus.

The rest of the Shires / Kent Thameside etc, who knows ? As London Country that was a financial basket case when it was privatised nearly 4 decades ago.

The NW operations are a real 'bitsa' (bitsa this, bitsa that) - I can imagine there is some truth in Julian Peddle making enquiries about Macclesfield and Winsford, possibly Stagecoach wanting bits.

The North East is the one I reckon would be most hotly fought over between Go Ahead and Stagecoach - both would probably want those operations as being a good fit with their other operations.

Maybe West Coast subsidiary Border could take over stuff north of Morpeth, incl Alnwick. its really only 3 routes, X18, X15, X20.

edit. they have struggled to maintain the monopolies they inherited. Crosville and United completely decimated. and the Midland red divisions they bought. Compare with Stagecoach who still monopolise Cumbria and Lincolnshire. Not a lot of competition in Transdev core areas either. Now looks like the old West Riding area will be under attack now.

 

[A0wen]

Not sure that Shrewsbury is really out on a limb when Arriva has another busy operation in nearby Telford.

Fair point, perhaps Shrewsbury, Oswestry & Telford would go as a block?

 

[cnjb8]

Arriva Wales Chester Depot is actually in Hawarden North Wales, but Arriva call it Chester

Ah thank you

 

[asdirective]

Arriva NE - Whitby looks a bit 'out on a limb' - maybe one for Go Ahead to add onto EYMS.

Hardly out on a limb. Yes Whitby is an outstation that works the X93/X4 Middlesbrough-Whitby-Scarborough corridors, but these routes pair up well with the rest of the Teesside network. They are both lucrative routes, particularly in the summer months, with with the main flow of passengers from Teesside to the coast in the morning and return in the evening. The Teesside networks feed into them with people buying day tickets for trips to the seaside. It works in pretty much the same way that Transdev Coastliner carries more trade from Leeds to the coast and back, and so is based in Malton for operational convenience.

Although part of Yorkshire, historically Whitby and the surrounding area has always been connected better to the North East than to rest of Yorkshire as it is easier to travel to/from. That's partly why the old United operations in Scarborough were passed to East Yorkshire upon privatisation, as they were more out on a limb than Whitby has ever been.

Hard to see how it would work quite so well tagged on to EYMS alone. The only way I could see it working, was if GoAhead purchased the Redcar/Stockton depots and shared the coastal work with EYMS.

The North East is the one I reckon would be most hotly fought over between Go Ahead and Stagecoach - both would probably want those operations as being a good fit with their other operations.

GoAhead could buy the old TMS/Tees (Stockton/Redcar depots) without too many competition issues. And with Go North East launching a route to the Yorkshire coast this summer, could be a hint that they may be interested in some or all of that part.

Would Stagecoach want Darlington back given their history there?

The other NE depots would present competition issues for both operators. I would guess that if Arriva are unable to offload the rest of the NE as a whole it will be a case of disposing of routes gradually, allowing GoAhead/Stagecoach to mop up where they can, and independents filling in the gaps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd personally love them to lose MK, as they are awful at it, though selling it to Stagecoach (my preference by a long way) could provoke the competition authorities to have concerns as they did last time that same thing happened, and I think I'd rather stick with Arriva than get First in.

 

[Robertj21a]

I'd personally love them to lose MK, as they are awful at it, though selling it to Stagey (my preference by a long way) could provoke the competition authorities to have concerns as they did last time that same thing happened, and I think I'd rather stick with Arriva than get First in.

No way are First Bus UK going to be going anywhere fresh!

 

[hst43102]

I'd personally love them to lose MK, as they are awful at it, though selling it to Stagey (my preference by a long way) could provoke the competition authorities to have concerns as they did last time that same thing happened, and I think I'd rather stick with Arriva than get First in.

Bit of a stretch but would Go-Ahead COMS be an option for taking the MK / Aylesbury operations?

 

[Robertj21a]

Bit of a stretch but would Go-Ahead COMS be an option for taking the MK / Aylesbury operations?

With High Wycombe too.

 

[CBlue]

With High Wycombe too.

Go-Ahead Oxford sold off High Wycombe a fair few years back now, IIRC. Doesn't mean they won't buy it back....but why would they?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can't see MK appealing that much, it's not exactly super-profitable (though there is a core commercial network that is sustainable - what you have now is roughly it as the Council has moved the subsidy to their DRT project, though there is I think still a small element of planning gain) - but I do think that more of a "go" could be made of it with an injection of Best Impressions type quality, as as things are you're never going to compete with the car unless you give it some sparkle, as you'll never do it on speed in MK.

 

[Robertj21a]

Go-Ahead Oxford sold off High Wycombe a fair few years back now, IIRC. Doesn't mean they won't buy it back....but why would they?

The suggestion was that it could be a part of a wider geographical coverage (with MK and Aylesbury)

 

[hst43102]

Go-Ahead Oxford sold off High Wycombe a fair few years back now, IIRC. Doesn't mean they won't buy it back....but why would they?

Go-Ahead Oxford still owns the Carousel operations in Wycombe - I don't think Arriva's Wycombe operations have ever been linked

 

[RogerOut]

Is it Arriva still thinking of selling up? I don’t like the idea of companies having a monopoly. For one, it gives a driver less options if they want to move companies.
As an ex LT driver once told me, atleast lots of companies were formed following the privatisation of London buses in 93/94. If a driver leaves a company, they could go to another one.

 

[Hophead]

GoAhead operate services in High Wycombe with Carousel Bus

 

[cnjb8]

I think that there will be more random depot sell offs, but then Arriva as a whole will be sold. DB seem to be dragging their foot about the sale and its certainly impacting Arriva in a bad way.
Something else to note is that Arriva London sold about thirty Enviro200s to Ensignbus, all between 11 to 13 years old. Can't help but think these could be used to replace ancient provincial Darts and Cadets

 

[swifty]

Something else to note is that Arriva London sold about thirty Enviro200s to Ensignbus, all between 11 to 13 years old. Can't help but think these could be used to replace ancient provincial Darts and Cadets

Were they part of the 100 or ex London Buses so sold? They were all in a poor state of repair and would take time and money to get back on the road. I’d heard most were long term VOR having been stripped of parts and will more than likely all end up scrapped.

*Edit - Ah they’re the Euro 6 E200s for sale aren’t they - in which case that is a strange move. Could be down to conversions costs that they’d rather sale?

Have Arriva High Wycombe still got a motley collection of long term VOR buses parked up as well?