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Austria (and perhaps other European countries?) return to full lockdown

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ExRes

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Belgian police using tear gas and water cannon again today to save the EU HQ from nasty protestors, if the UK had voted Remain would we have had to use them as well?
 
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Peterthegreat

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Belgian police using tear gas and water cannon again today to save the EU HQ from nasty protestors, if the UK had voted Remain would we have had to use them as well?
Wrong on many accounts. I fail to see what the Brexit vote has to do with this.
1) Belgium is a sovereign state. Laws and restrictions on Covid in Belgium are set by the Belgian Government - not the EU
2) The "EU" buildings are not in the UK so protestors cannot march there.
3) Water cannon are not licenced for use in England and would require parliamentary approval.
 

21C101

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Wrong on many accounts. I fail to see what the Brexit vote has to do with this.
1) Belgium is a sovereign state. Laws and restrictions on Covid in Belgium are set by the Belgian Government - not the EU
Not for much longer now that HERA is being set up, and they already interfere in vaccine procurement.
 

Ediswan

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It's the European Health Emergency preparedness and Response Authority and some EU member countries are said to be highly suspicious of it
If I was being really cynical, I would note that the word 'preparedness' is afforded neither a capital letter, nor a place in the acronym.
 

MikeWM

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Italy have now changed their 'green pass', needed for pretty much eveything, to exclude negative test results.

Odd how - once again - everyone keeps doing the same things, even though they make no sense whatever for the purpose they are supposedly for.

We know that vaccination doesn't stop catching or spreading the disease, and so a negative test result is presumably rather a better indicator of whether someone has covid or not than whether someone is vaccinated or not.

So why do this? It appears rather more about 'punishment' for not doing what you were told, rather than a public health measure......
 

21C101

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Italy have now changed their 'green pass', needed for pretty much eveything, to exclude negative test results.

Odd how - once again - everyone keeps doing the same things, even though they make no sense whatever for the purpose they are supposedly for.

We know that vaccination doesn't stop catching or spreading the disease, and so a negative test result is presumably rather a better indicator of whether someone has covid or not than whether someone is vaccinated or not.

So why do this? It appears rather more about 'punishment' for not doing what you were told, rather than a public health measure......
I read things like this and think, "Thank heavens we left before we got integrated any further and proto authoritarians like that could impose things like that on us".
 

ExRes

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If I was being really cynical, I would note that the word 'preparedness' is afforded neither a capital letter, nor a place in the acronym.

Being equally cynical I would say that it's because 'preparedness' isn't considered a sufficiently macho word such as 'Emergency' and 'Response'
 

duncanp

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Being equally cynical I would say that it's because 'preparedness' isn't considered a sufficiently macho word such as 'Emergency' and 'Response'

Some papers are reporting that the mayor of New York, Bill De Blasio, has introduced a vaccine mandate for private employers in the city. starting on December 27th.

What they unaccountably forget to mention is that Mr De Blasio's term of office ends at midnight on December 31st, and the incoming mayor, Eric Adams, has said that he won't commit to enforcing the vaccine mandate.

So introducing a vaccine mandate four days before you leave office is pure and utter virtue signalling, as well as deliberately trying to make things awkward for the incoming mayor, who will get flak from all the COVID bedwetters if he rescinds the mandate.
 

Baxenden Bank

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If I was being really cynical, I would note that the word 'preparedness' is afforded neither a capital letter, nor a place in the acronym.
Those even more cynical may question inclusion of the word 'response' in the context of EU institutions. Although I suppose they don't put a date on the time taken to respond. :lol:

Some papers are reporting that the mayor of New York, Bill De Blasio, has introduced a vaccine mandate for private employers in the city. starting on December 27th.

What they unaccountably forget to mention is that Mr De Blasio's term of office ends at midnight on December 31st, and the incoming mayor, Eric Adams, has said that he won't commit to enforcing the vaccine mandate.

So introducing a vaccine mandate four days before you leave office is pure and utter virtue signalling, as well as deliberately trying to make things awkward for the incoming mayor, who will get flak from all the COVID bedwetters if he rescinds the mandate.
I read those news reports and didn't appreciate the imminent departure of the current Mayor - well noted. Perhaps he should concentrate on his leaving party instead of stirring the 'stuff'.
 

Jonny

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Some papers are reporting that the mayor of New York, Bill De Blasio, has introduced a vaccine mandate for private employers in the city. starting on December 27th.

What they unaccountably forget to mention is that Mr De Blasio's term of office ends at midnight on December 31st, and the incoming mayor, Eric Adams, has said that he won't commit to enforcing the vaccine mandate.

So introducing a vaccine mandate four days before you leave office is pure and utter virtue signalling, as well as deliberately trying to make things awkward for the incoming mayor, who will get flak from all the COVID bedwetters if he rescinds the mandate.
Given that the US is generally pretty sharp on religious exemptions, he might just be able to concede to a lawsuit and make it look like it was out of his hands.
 

brad465

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Protests are continuing in Austria this weekend, with around 44,000 protesting in Vienna:



Tens of thousands of people have staged a protest in Austria against measures to curb the spread of Covid-19, including mandatory vaccinations.

Police say about 44,000 people rallied in the capital, Vienna, the fourth straight weekend of demonstrations.
Last month Austria became the first western European country to reimpose a lockdown for those who are vaccinated, which ends on Sunday.
But restrictions will continue for unvaccinated people.
The protesters, backed by the far-right Freedom Party, are against the government's decision to make Covid-19 jabs mandatory from February.
The country is the first in the EU to adopt such a measure, which applies to all residents older than 14, except in the case of a dispensation for health reasons.
Opponents say people should have the freedom to decide for themselves whether to be vaccinated. The government says nobody will be vaccinated by force but those who refuse the jab will receive fines of up to €3,600 (£3.070; $4,000).
Protesters carried banners saying "No to compulsory vaccination" and chanted "We are the people," and "resistance". Smaller demonstrations were held in the cities of Klagenfurt and Linz.
Austria, with a population of 8.9 million people, has confirmed 1.2 million infections and more than 13,000 deaths since the start of the pandemic, according to Johns Hopkins University.
About 68% of the country's population is fully vaccinated, one of the lowest rates in Western Europe.

What caught my eye is how the far right Freedom Party backs the protests and is the only party in Austria to be opposed to many of the measures being brought in. We should be highlighting how marginalising a key demographic risks populists exploiting their grievances to gain support, and if they ever gain power, well, history will tell us the rest.
 

johnnychips

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I can see what you are getting at, but there is a difference with ‘backed by’ and ‘organised by’. Nowhere suggests that you have to agree with all the Freedom Party’s aims to protest against the measures.
 

DustyBin

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I can see what you are getting at, but there is a difference with ‘backed by’ and ‘organised by’. Nowhere suggests that you have to agree with all the Freedom Party’s aims to protest against the measures.

They’ll try anything to discredit those opposed to these unethical restrictions and the removal of our freedom. It’s a bizarre situation really when the likes of the Freedom Party are seen as dangerous and that “history could repeat itself”, whilst at the same time said party is opposing what’s happening right now and warning of exactly the same thing. I think it’s symptomatic of the current climate where moderate voices are drowned out, forcing people into the clutches of extremists. That really is history repeating itself!
 

nw1

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What caught my eye is how the far right Freedom Party backs the protests and is the only party in Austria to be opposed to many of the measures being brought in. We should be highlighting how marginalising a key demographic risks populists exploiting their grievances to gain support, and if they ever gain power, well, history will tell us the rest.

I really don't understand why governments are so completely dumb that by proposing lockdown after lockdown, they are going to a) cause huge financial problems and b) radicalise people, both of which are a breeding ground for the far right.

If there had been no 1929 collapse, there would have been no Hitler. So one would think that governments would be doing all they could to prevent a repeat of what happened in 1929.

Time they realise that mass poverty, global economic collapse and the potential rise of the far right are far bigger dangers than Covid. Do they honestly not understand how to think long term?
 

kristiang85

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Do they honestly not understand how to think long term?
This is one of the main flaws of democracy - politicians only think about the next election at most, not the long term. Same with many voters, to be honest.
 

brad465

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Looks like we now might have to start worrying about "covid terrorism":


Police in Germany's eastern state of Saxony have launched a series of raids after death threats were made against Premier Michael Kretschmer for backing coronavirus measures.
Far-right anti-vaccination activists are suspected of plotting violence with crossbows or other "piercing weapons".
Saxony has the lowest Covid vaccine take-up in Germany.
Last year Mr Kretschmer warned of Covid "hysteria" but he later apologised and has since backed strict measures.
Germany's new chancellor, Olaf Scholz, told MPs on Wednesday that "this tiny minority of uninhibited extremists" would be not be allowed to impose their will on society.
Police in Saxony said security forces including the special Soko Rex anti-extremist unit were raiding a number of locations, in response to the threats made against the state premier highlighted by a German TV documentary a week ago.
The plot against Mr Kretschmer was first exposed by the Frontal programme whose journalists had infiltrated a group of some 100 people communicating via the Telegram messaging app.
Calling themselves Dresden Online Networking, members would discuss ideas and even meet up in parks, public broadcaster ZDF reported. The programme monitored one conversation in which one man spoke of being armed and ready.
Police said statements had been made on plans to kill the state premier as well as other state representatives.
The revelations prompted an outcry in Germany. Mr Kretschmer said all legal means should be used against such threats.
"People in public office should have no fear of speaking their mind and doing their job," he said.

Mr Kretschmer, a member of the centre-right Christian Democrats who were in government nationally until last week, was initially hostile to tight Covid restrictions.
But since Saxony became one of the German states hit hardest by coronavirus he has changed his mind.
 

DustyBin

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Baxenden Bank

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The irony!
Indeed, also the abrupt shift from one end of the hysterical spectrum to the other. Sensible people would at least row back from extremism and stop in the moderate middle, at least for a breather.
Last year Mr Kretschmer warned of Covid "hysteria" but he later apologised and has since backed strict measures.
 

Iskra

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I was chatting to a copper yesterday here in the UK, and he told me they are planning for a January lockdown.

With the recent ‘socialise carefully’ rhetoric, it seems they are getting ready to tell the public that they didn’t behave themselves and that we now need a January lockdown. January is probably the softest month to implement a lockdown for the government as even though people are fed up of lockdowns, many are skint in January and the weather isn’t great, so it’s the best opportunity for the government to implement one without too much fuss.
 

Eyersey468

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I was chatting to a copper yesterday here in the UK, and he told me they are planning for a January lockdown.

With the recent ‘socialise carefully’ rhetoric, it seems they are getting ready to tell the public that they didn’t behave themselves and that we now need a January lockdown. January is probably the softest month to implement a lockdown for the government as even though people are fed up of lockdowns, many are skint in January and the weather isn’t great, so it’s the best opportunity for the government to implement one without too much fuss.
The last thing we need is another lockdown, it will kill a lot of sectors stone dead even if they bring back furlough
 

Iskra

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The last thing we need is another lockdown, it will kill a lot of sectors stone dead even if they bring back furlough
I quite agree, and it would be irresponsible without a furlough scheme in place. On the BBC website this morning there are already sectors crying out for government support again.
 

DustyBin

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I quite agree, and it would be irresponsible without a furlough scheme in place. On the BBC website this morning there are already sectors crying out for government support again.

I’m expecting a January lockdown unfortunately. I think the next couple of weeks will be used to scare people, divide the population and generally set the scene.

Who knows what they’ll do in regard to furlough; part of me thinks we may see employers expected to pick up the bill. In struggling sectors that will be catastrophic but nothing would surprise me at this point, as the only thing that seems to matter is the perpetual war.
 

adc82140

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Even with furlough, it's only 80% government support. A lot of companies can't afford to pay their staff even 20% if they have no income, and expecting people to take a 20% pay cut with inflation running as high as it is is not acceptable.

January may be a soft month for a lot of sectors, but one that springs to mind that will suffer is theatre. The Panto season for many pretty much props up the business for the rest of the year.

I don't see a full lockdown, but the creeping of more Covid certification, and an unfortunate return to capacity limits, table service etc etc.

Omicron, infection wise, is going to be a short, sharp spike. By New Year infections will be dropping, and a lockdown in that case would be hard to sell. Similarly if hospitalisations follow the South African trend, there is no way a lockdown could be entertained.
 
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Iskra

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I’m expecting a January lockdown unfortunately. I think the next couple of weeks will be used to scare people, divide the population and generally set the scene.

Who knows what they’ll do in regard to furlough; part of me thinks we may see employers expected to pick up the bill. In struggling sectors that will be catastrophic but nothing would surprise me at this point, as the only thing that seems to matter is the perpetual war.
I agree, everything seems to be falling into line for it already. Schools are now saying they are ready to teach online next term (BBC News).
 

adc82140

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I agree, everything seems to be falling into line for it already. Schools are now saying they are ready to teach online next term (BBC News).
Read beyond the headline on that one. Schools are planning remote learning in the event of teacher shortages or mass class absences. With Omicron this is a real possibility. Lots of people off simultaneously with mild illness. My mother told me yesterday that during Hong Kong flu, one week she was in a class of 3.
 

DelayRepay

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Read beyond the headline on that one. Schools are planning remote learning in the event of teacher shortages or mass class absences. With Omicron this is a real possibility. Lots of people off simultaneously with mild illness. My mother told me yesterday that during Hong Kong flu, one week she was in a class of 3.

And, to be fair, the 'planning' seems to be asking the kids to take laptops home when they break up for Christmas. Probably a sensible precaution. I wouldn't imagine a huge amount of 'planning' is needed now, given we've had months and months of online learning.

I believe the Government are committed to keeping schools open - they were the first thing to re-open after the last lockdown. Even if we see hospitality and shops closed, class bubbles coming back etc, I don't think schools will close other than individually when there is a staff shortage.
 

nw1

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I’m expecting a January lockdown unfortunately. I think the next couple of weeks will be used to scare people, divide the population and generally set the scene.

Who knows what they’ll do in regard to furlough; part of me thinks we may see employers expected to pick up the bill. In struggling sectors that will be catastrophic but nothing would surprise me at this point, as the only thing that seems to matter is the perpetual war.

Would they though? Johnson wants to keep what little popularity he has remaining, a lockdown would kill that for sure. The amount of anger directed at a government filled with well-off, secure, well-connected people who will never have to suffer financially for the rest of their lives will be immense.

If there is a lockdown this winter, they'll use the same reasoning to implement a lockdown every winter.
 
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