Autumn refresh for GWR Class 165/166 Turbos

[Stigy]

Those pictures aren’t representative of all the GWR sets, just a few worse-case examples. The West units I regularly ride are clean and tidy inside, if a bit threadbare in places. Perhaps the Reading sets are in a worse condition?

I have yet to see a single 16x service that operate on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route which has a genuinely clean and tidy former first class area, and all tables are sticky to the touch. I guess the 165s are in generally better order than 166s however.

 

[Carlisle]

Yes, they're in a dire state. The only things I remember being worse in recent times were some of the Serco-Abellio Northern 150s and 142s towards the end of the franchise, where the seats were actually falling apart. Really shocking how bad GWR have let them become.

Indeed, the DFT can’t be blamed for everything if the TOC hasn’t bothered to implement a half decent heavy cleaning schedule on some of its fleet.

 

[fgwrich]

Those pictures are from a 165 because there are no full sized first class tables. All the two car 165s have had that area replaced by standard seating with a huge bike and luggage area at the other end. All 166s have had their carpet replaced but a shame it clashes. The 165s look ok inside probably because they don't have carpet or tables!

I do find the interior doors aren't great with very old style buttons and they don't seem very responsive.

Many units have cut out holes in the empty poster frames covered with hazard tape for some reason. Damaged side panels or missing trim are also common

166205 with the GWR interior has the old first colours reappearing in a lot of places. Many seats have random rubine red grab handles and the tables reveal the original colours from being worn .

Most of those photos are indeed from the 165s but are the 3 car versions - the on off on “first class” compartment I find is the most comfortable part to travel in. However, the 166s were in an equally dire state (particularly the table tops as highlighted by another poster above) but have recently been bought down a peg by the replacement of the carpet with the horrendously clashing GWR Green stuff. Cleanliness wise, perhaps Bristol does have a better cleaning regime to that of Reading, But the poor quality of either located Turbo remains - the toilet with the long term notice was in 166204, which also appeared to have a hole punched into one of the vestibule walls.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I have yet to see a single 16x service that operate on the Portsmouth to Cardiff route which has a genuinely clean and tidy former first class area, and all tables are sticky to the touch. I guess the 165s are in generally better order than 166s however.

Yes I agree the first class sections are very poor. The standard class areas seem to be better though.

 

[Stigy]

Yes I agree the first class sections are very poor. The standard class areas seem to be better though.

I guess there’s very few tables to get sticky in there. I tend to agree other areas are better than the first class, but the toilets and seats do need attention.

 

[superalbs]

It doesn’t help that the cleaning regime seems to have fallen by the wayside. To the extent that I’m surprised more aren’t failed on the depot as not being fit for service. I get that deep cleaning isn’t feasible that regularly, but when there’s McDonald’s packaging from the previous day’s service and old Metros etc, it’s a bit much. More so since Covid became a thing, and all TOCs pledged to clean trains regularly, with their extra special cleaning agents..

I actually got a marketing email from GWR while on a filthy 166, where the subject read 'Ever wondered how we keep our trains so clean?' or something.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes I agree the first class sections are very poor. The standard class areas seem to be better though.

Lucky you if you’ve been able to travel in them recently, on my recent trips in the Solent area I’ve been treated with this. And that was last month.

(Taped off former First Class compartment at both ends)

 

[Stigy]

Lucky you if you’ve been able to travel in them recently, on my recent trips in the Solent area I’ve been treated with this. And that was last month.

(Taped off former First Class compartment at both ends)

Taped off, or just to indicate staff only?

I actually got a marketing email from GWR while on a filthy 166, where the subject read 'Ever wondered how we keep our trains so clean?' or something.

That’s hilarious

 

[Dougal2345]

Waste of money, at 28 years of age they should be pensioned off and sent for recycling. I no longer use the train as the abysmal third-world conditions on the Portsmouth - Cardiff route just aren’t worth the money. I can’t see any reason to pay ridiculous amounts of money to be deafened, overheated, frozen (depending on the time of year), subjected to toxic fumes and the dubious sticky substances found in these rattling mobile Petri dishes.

My car is cheaper, quieter, climate-controlled, relaxing, hygienic and often quicker.

Unless the refurbishment includes a totally new interior, a completely new air-conditioning system, new tinted double-glazed sealed windows, a new exhaust system and some serious sound deadening, anything less is just squandering good money after bad.

Where's the "like" button?

Travelling on a 165/6 (not sure which) from Southampton to Romsey recently, the engine noise through Millbrook (seemingly at full revs) was at the threshold of pain. I shoved my fingers in my ears until it eventually quietened down.

 

[fgwrich]

Taped off, or just to indicate staff only?


That’s hilarious

Taped off at both ends of the units for staff only. That said, given that the conditions of the tables seem to be on par with Wetherspoon’s infamous carpets, I’m not sure that was necessarily a good idea!

 

[Stigy]

Taped off at both ends of the units for staff only. That said, given that the conditions of the tables seem to be on par with Wetherspoon’s infamous carpets, I’m not sure that was necessarily a good idea!

That’s the norm since Covid, which to be honest I quite like

Where's the "like" button?

Travelling on a 165/6 (not sure which) from Southampton to Romsey recently, the engine noise through Millbrook (seemingly at full revs) was at the threshold of pain. I shoved my fingers in my ears until it eventually quietened down.

The engine noise is nothing compared to the whining/squealing of (presumably) the ventilation system. That’s migraine inducing on linger trips.

 

[Aictos]

I wonder if the 'covid cleaning' regimes have made things worse in some ways. Never seems to actually be any cleaning happening, just wiping antibac/antiviral fluid over the tops of everything.
A lot of the trains need a real good deep clean, rather than just wiping another layer over the dirt

I can assure you that the EMR and TL Classes 360s and 700s do get allocated by unit to both have a deep clean every weekday night at the depot as there are cleaning regimes in place with different types of cleaning regimes in place depending on which type is needed per unit.

The only issue is as a example you could have 700155 undergo a deep clean on the Monday night then come the Wednesday night, it might need another one simply because of the state that it got into thanks to anti social behaviour of some members of the public...

For turnaround cleaning though at stations, there is less time to undergo a deep clean so the majority of the time it's a case of wiping touch points and ensuring the train is clean ready to go.

The fleets also have zoono applied regularly which is a anti covid19 antiviral spray which lasts 3 to 4 weeks.

Of course every company is different but I'm going by what I'm aware that EMR and TL do.

 

[Snow1964]

Those 166s are (very) noisy inside nowadays, it seems like any soundproofing of engines has been removed.

The other day I was at Batheastern and a 3car 166 was taking the line towards Bradford-on-Avon and Portsmouth, and a 9car IET had to wait. The 166 was really noisy, but could hardly hear the IET accelerate on diesel mode.

So add new exhausts with silencers to list of parts they need (new aircon, fixed hopper windows, new tables, new carpets, new seats, new seat frame armrests ………..).

I suspect any token refresh is just throwing good money away, because still have a dreadful noisy travelling environment. Either need to spend a fortune to avoid a part upgraded bodge, or replace them.

 

[Stigy]

Those 166s are (very) noisy inside nowadays, it seems like any soundproofing of engines has been removed.

The other day I was at Batheastern and a 3car 166 was taking the line towards Bradford-on-Avon and Portsmouth, and a 9car IET had to wait. The 166 was really noisy, but could hardly hear the IET accelerate on diesel mode.

So add new exhausts with silencers to list of parts they need (new aircon, fixed hopper windows, new tables, new carpets, new seats, new seat frame armrests ………..).

I suspect any token refresh is just throwing good money away, because still have a dreadful noisy travelling environment. Either need to spend a fortune to avoid a part upgraded bodge, or replace them.

It’s not really the exhausts that are the problem. Unless the exhausts are blowing, it’s generally the old, tired, worn out, archaic engines that are noisy.

 

[387star]

I think these pictures further emphasise the sorry state of some of these units

 

[FGW_DID]

First of the Reading units departs tomorrow (20/09). 165122 heading to Wolverton by road.

 

[McMetro]

The 2 hour odd journey times from Bristol to Weymouth is rather painful on a 166 - always hope for a rare 158! They haven’t even finished re-liverying to GWR on a few of the 166s

 

[cactustwirly]

Looks like they've gone seriously downhill since transferring west. The 166s were always better than the 165s. The trains were clean and generally well maintained when they were based at Reading. Just worn out from years of intense commuter work and in need of new seat cushions and new carpets etc.

Nothing like that table, broken toilets or taped up vestibule doors. The 166s should be very similar to the 158s in terms of engine noise, the 165s are noticeably louder in terms of engine noise.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

For those of you moaning about the 166s, I promise you that the 165s are worse.

I haven't been on a 166, but I think the 165s are alright. Comfortable, air conditioning and toilets onboard.

Looks like they've gone seriously downhill since transferring west. The 166s were always better than the 165s. The trains were clean and generally well maintained when they were based at Reading. Just worn out from years of intense commuter work and in need of new seat cushions and new carpets etc.

Nothing like that table, broken toilets or taped up vestibule doors. The 166s should be very similar to the 158s in terms of engine noise, the 165s are noticeably louder in terms of engine noise.

And yet, by my experience, I've always thought the 166s were even louder than the 165s.

 

[JonathanH]

They haven’t even finished re-liverying to GWR on a few of the 166s

Not really an option - they were only recently painted when the decision was taken to move to the green scheme - same applies to 150219 and 150238.

 

[185143]

For those of you moaning about the 166s, I promise you that the 165s are worse.

Hard disagree. The air con works on the 165s! And even if it doesn't, every window has a hopper.

I did Cardiff-Southampton on a 166 a couple of months back when it was very hot. I've never felt ill getting off a train before, without it being self inflicted. The air con was at least maintaining the high temperature until about Patchway when there was a sudden deluge in the vestibule and then the temperature just got higher and higher. Had I been traincrew, I'd have seriously considered refusing to work it.

 

[LiftFan]

I really hope GWR are up for spending some serious money on these units - the whine of the 166 air conditioning does my head in! At least the 165 engine noise isn't so irritating. Would be nice if they scrap the 3+2 seating config and invest in some seatback tables so we can finally rest our snacks somewhere on a long journey.

 

[Class360/1]

I actually got a marketing email from GWR while on a filthy 166, where the subject read 'Ever wondered how we keep our trains so clean?' or something.

The irony lol!

 

[tiptoptaff]

The small toilets have fallen to issues beyond GWRs control. The only company that made the parts for them (and before anyone moans about it and blames GWR, they didn't select the toilet design 30years ago, not their fault BR only asked one company to build parts for it) went bust last year, and so once a toilet fails, if the part isn't in stock, it's unrepairable indefinitely.

Work is going in to finding a new supplier, but that'll only happen when someone buys the requisite toolings/parts/designs from the defunct company. And being such a niche item, such a purchase is a big investment for any prospective buyer with potentially limited returns.

The UAT is usually well maintained and its very rare for a unit to have no working toilet at all. The 16x fleets abysmal fuel range means they get on to depot and CET tanked quite frequently.

 

[Snow1964]

The small toilets have fallen to issues beyond GWRs control. The only company that made the parts for them (and before anyone moans about it and blames GWR, they didn't select the toilet design 30years ago, not their fault BR only asked one company to build parts for it) went bust last year, and so once a toilet fails, if the part isn't in stock, it's unrepairable indefinitely.

Work is going in to finding a new supplier, but that'll only happen when someone buys the requisite toolings/parts/designs from the defunct company. And being such a niche item, such a purchase is a big investment for any prospective buyer with potentially limited returns.

The UAT is usually well maintained and its very rare for a unit to have no working toilet at all. The 16x fleets abysmal fuel range means they get on to depot and CET tanked quite frequently.

So to add to the long list of parts in abysmal condition further up the thread, you have stated parts of the train are obsolete and cannot be repaired.

If GWR needs the toilet parts, logically it should buy the tooling and make the spares, otherwise it is faced with choice of replace the toilets, replace the train, or be a laughing stock as it can’t maintain its trains in 100% operational condition (is this last one actually permitted long term under its franchise agreement).

 

[tiptoptaff]

Ahh yes so even an issue 30years old is GWRs fault.

They can't replace the toilets, that's down to the ROSCO.

Suggesting they buying the toolings is absurd, as they haven't employed tool makers for years. Parts are supplied by manufacturers or specialist suppliers these days. That's how it works, not just in the railway industry but in many industrial settings.

 

[fgwrich]

I wonder what parts are actually unavailable as I know the toilet modules were replaced by FGW at Reading Depot during their last “refresh”.

I know how frustrating it can be when you are trying to chase up components from a now defunct company (I am trying to buy parts from the remnants of Arrowvale), but I do wonder / feel if the lax attitude towards the fleet has caught up with them. I.e perhaps new toilets should have been fitted during the installation of the UAT toilet - both keeping components relatively simple and common - a ROSCO matter maybe, but something perhaps First should have pushed them on. I believe Chilterns 165 fleet has a modern design.

From a personal point of view though, I would like to see the back of them altogether - the sink design was poor and often allowed water to dribble onto the floor, and the narrow wooden door was equally of poor design - somehow a train newer than the 158 fleet seemed to have something with the quality and narrowness of a Pacer. Not part of Network SouthEasts designs.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Arrowvale also made parts for the OTDR fitted to 99% of the GWR fleet, but a lot more has been done across the industry to sort that out, as you can imagine, being a safety critical component. Also as every single train needs it and needs to keep it working it was probably an easier decision for whomever bought the toolings compared to a fairly small sce niche toilet module

 

[jw]

Is anyone aware if the plan is to install 2+2 seating as part of this refresh?

 

[adc82140]

If there is still a functioning Universal Access Toilet on board, would it not make sense just to remove the other one during the refresh? They could replace it with bicycle space.