Avanti service reductions from Monday 26th July

[jfollows]

Although technically that isn't actually a permitted route ticketing wise!

I thought it was, and this was changed a few years ago: MA + NR as one of the permitted routes (although this may be Warrington Central though).

 

[6Gman]

Never said it was about the money.

They are taking the easy option to run a minimum service rather than deploy what resources they have available. This is a result of us moving away from a turn up and go service and too much reliance upon advanced bookings to drive revenue.

Better a contingency service that actually works than a more ambitious service that then falls apart every day (and in a different way each time).

 

[Class 170101]

I wonder whether, across a number of impacted TOCs, there will be attempts at demand suppression by way of ‘consider whether your journey is necessary’ messaging, or similar.

It’s a good job that those of us who have been working from home didn’t all return to the office on July 19th, having eschewed ‘advice’ from the outer reaches of the Covid sub-forum.

If I was a commuter (i'm not) I wouldn't be returning until September anyway. Kids are off school, London gets hot in summer and with social distancing reducing services adhoc and short notice, this drop off remaining in situ is of no surprise to me whatsoever.

 

[XAM2175]

Which is why journey planners won't suggest it.

Does the original post not say it is being suggested?

The national rail enquires journey planner suggests using the Glasgow service from crewe and changing at Warrington Bank Quay for Manchester but how many people who just turn up on the day will do that I don't know. ...

 

[craigybagel]

Which is why journey planners won't suggest it.

The NRE app is suggesting it, as it often does when there is a large gap between trains. It's not offering a fare however.

I thought it was, and this was changed a few years ago: MA + NR as one of the permitted routes (although this may be Warrington Central though).
View attachment 100257

Interesting. I was going off the fact that NRE never offers a fare for that routing (either via Bank Quay or Central), which is usually pretty reliable.

 

[Watershed]

Does the original post not say it is being suggested?

I think there might be some confusion here. It's not a permitted route to travel from Crewe to Manchester via Warrington, but from Rugeley and south thereof (including London), it is.

NRE will suggest non-permitted routes by offering split tickets, but if you try to take up the offer of a link to a booking site (it doesn't actually sell tickets), most booking sites will only put the first ticket into the basket.

 

[jfollows]

I think there might be some confusion here. It's not a permitted route to travel from Crewe to Manchester via Warrington, but from Rugeley and south thereof (including London), it is.

Good point - Crewe to Manchester is map GM only, which means via Wilmslow (other than direct trains, which don't normally exist).

 

[XAM2175]

I think there might be some confusion here. ...

Thanks.

 

[Jez]

Although technically that isn't actually a permitted route ticketing wise!

But passengers could just get a Crewe to Warrington and Warrington to Manchester ticket or it would make more sense to allow passengers ticket acceptance on this route during the lack of direct services from Crewe to Manchester.

 

[sd0733]

But passengers could just get a Crewe to Warrington and Warrington to Manchester ticket or it would make more sense to allow passengers ticket acceptance on this route during the lack of direct services from Crewe to Manchester.

There are even less trains from Warrington though and still end up on a 2/3 car 175. The Northern isnt running for 2 weeks after Friday so Warrington is worse capacity than Crewe!

 

[adrock1976]

Although technically that isn't actually a permitted route ticketing wise!

Which is why journey planners won't suggest it.

I would maintain that diverting the XC is the least worst option in the circumstances.

When did Crewe - Manchester via Warrington BQ, Earlestown cease to be a permitted route?

This was the original route many years ago back in the days of when the Liverpool & Manchester, Grand Junction, and London & Birmingham Railways were built (which all became part of the London & North Western) before the diagonal route(s) via Wilmslow were built.

 

[Watershed]

When did Crewe - Manchester via Warrington BQ, Earlestown cease to be a permitted route?

This was the original route many years ago back in the days of when the Liverpool & Manchester, Grand Junction, and London & Birmingham Railways were built (which all became part of the London & North Western) before the diagonal route(s) via Wilmslow were built.

Some point between 1837 and the present day!

Less facetiously, probably when the Routeing Guide was introduced, so around 1997.

 

[142blue]

I had booked one of their North Wales to Manchester Avanti only tickets via Crewe for this coming Wednesday[28th July].
I checked the website at 7am and found the revised timetable for this week is now up. As expected, the Euston - Manchester via Crewe services are now cancelled, so my ticket is now useless.
I requested a full refund at 7.15am, and by 7.30am had heard that a full refund would be made. So I'm impressed with the speed they are reacting to a problem not immediately of their making.

There was acceptance with northern last time, not seen anything this time but will check next time I'm in

 

[Jamesrob637]

School holidays are the time to increase frequencies, not reduce them!

 

[Bletchleyite]

School holidays are the time to increase frequencies, not reduce them!

Problem is that people won't volunteer for rest day working when they're going on holiday, and so many staff are isolating or ill...

 

[berneyarms]

School holidays are the time to increase frequencies, not reduce them!

It’s difficult to do that if large numbers of staff aren’t available due to self-isolating though.

 

[Dai Corner]

It’s difficult to do that if large numbers of staff aren’t available due to self-isolating though.

They might even want to spend time with their children or grandchildren.

 

[Bald Rick]

School holidays are the time to increase frequencies, not reduce them!

Not for services that serve the commuter and business markets, which is typically 20-30% down in school summer holidays.

 

[DaveB10780]

What I don't understand is that if the overall Covid numbers continue decreasing why services cannot be added. It seems an awful long time to reduce to 1 per hour.

 

[Dai Corner]

What I don't understand is that if the overall Covid numbers continue decreasing why services cannot be added. It seems an awful long time to reduce to 1 per hour.

As I said up thread

Presumably the service to be advertised is one they feel confident can be delivered. Better to do that and maybe run some additionals if possible and required than have to make short notice cancellations, I'd say.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What I don't understand is that if the overall Covid numbers continue decreasing why services cannot be added. It seems an awful long time to reduce to 1 per hour.

If they get more staff back they could put on additional services, I suppose.

 

[Jimini]

Not for services that serve the commuter and business markets, which is typically 20-30% down in school summer holidays.

Agreed, but if you're commuting from Coventry to Euston for example that used to have a fast service every 20 minutes, and now it's hourly (and stops at all three of the usual intermediate stops rather than just one (or none pre-covid!) so it's slower than normal), that's quite the reduction! I had the misfortune to be on the 0732 this morning and it was cosy, to say the least. Couple that with no decrease on ticket prices -- indeed one could call it an increase due to the lack of advance tickets available because of the service reduction -- and it's a bit sh*t, quite frankly. There's no perfect answer to all of this of course, but my example above would be one of many across the network, I'd wager.

 

[Bald Rick]

Agreed, but if you're commuting from Coventry to Euston for example that used to have a fast service every 20 minutes, and now it's hourly (and stops at all three of the usual intermediate stops rather than just one (or none pre-covid!) so it's slower than normal), that's quite the reduction! I had the misfortune to be on the 0732 this morning and it was cosy, to say the least. Couple that with no decrease on ticket prices -- indeed one could call it an increase due to the lack of advance tickets available because of the service reduction -- and it's a bit sh*t, quite frankly. There's no perfect answer to all of this of course, but my example above would be one of many across the network, I'd wager.

But there aren’t many Coventry to London commuters at present. As it happens I did London to Coventry this evening, peak train, maybe 40% of seats taken leaving London.

Meanwhile over on Thameslink, peak fast trains from Bedford to London are running 2tph vice the normal 8. Pre Covid those 8tph would be full and standing from St Albans - some near crush loaded. This week the 2tph have spare seats a plenty.

 

[The Fox 4846]

Looks like on Saturdays there will be 2tph to Birmingham with the 2nd Birmingham arriving 45 leaving 16 from Birmingham to Manchester, operating via Bescot to Crewe before operating to Man Picc via Wilmslow

 

[Bald Rick]

Looks like on Saturdays there will be 2tph to Birmingham with the 2nd Birmingham arriving 45 leaving 16 from Birmingham to Manchester, operating via Bescot to Crewe before operating to Man Picc via Wilmslow

There’s a fair bit of engineering work on the Trent Valley on weekends this summer - major track works and HS2 work. The train plan for that has been planned for some time and would be quite a task to unpick it at this notice.

 

[stj]

School holidays are the time to increase frequencies, not reduce them!

I doubt many families use trains these days,too expensive unless its a local journey.

 

[Scotrail314209]

The reduced timetable doesn’t seem to be doing too great either. Few cancellations due to a shortage of train crew.

Worst has to be the cancellation of two Euston - Glasgow trains in a row (1010 and 1118).

It’s quite astounding really.

EDIT: Talking rubbish. The 10:10 departed fine.

 

[Peter0124]

The reduced timetable doesn’t seem to be doing too great either. Few cancellations due to a shortage of train crew.

Worst has to be the cancellation of two Euston - Glasgow trains in a row (1010 and 1118).

It’s quite astounding really.

The 12:18 is also cancelled, and so were the 07:37 and 08:36 off GLA, doesn't look good

 

[Scotrail314209]

The 12:18 is also cancelled, and so were the 07:37 and 08:36 off GLA, doesn't look good

God damn. This really isn't boding well at all.

I do hope it doesn't mean they have to cut the frequencies further.

Did mean the 11:27 Euston - Preston has been reported as full and standing.

 

[Trackman]

God damn. This really isn't boding well at all.

I do hope it doesn't mean they have to cut the frequencies further.

Did mean the 11:27 Euston - Preston has been reported as full and standing.

Just had a look on RTT at Euston for Avanti, 29 passenger outbounds cancelled so far.

I do hope it doesn't mean they have to cut the frequencies further.

It's looking glum.