Avanti West Coast - staff shortages?

[Carlisle]

Not working rest days is not industrial action.

I agree entirely, however you’ve acknowledged previously on this forum that unofficial industrial action can be a problem for the railway.

 

[Bald Rick]

I think the question that needs to be asked is why has agreement not been reached on rest day working?

 

[bb21]

I agree entirely, however you’ve acknowledged previously on this forum that unofficial industrial action can be a problem for the railway.

That is correct. I've just had to re-read everything in this thread but so far from what we know here this isn't remotely industrial action (official or unofficial) to my mind, even though it may feel like one, and it is probably as much a nuisance as one.

The difference in opinion I think partly stems from the fact that what constitutes industrial action is not clearly defined in statute as far as I know.

To my mind, without a RDW agreement, there is no industrial action as there is no longer an agreed system for the supply of labour and their remuneration. An organised RDW ban while an agreement is still in place on the other hand is indisputably an effort at frustrating the business and its normal operation, hence indisputably industrial action.

I suspect every time something like this pops up, there will be some sort of mini-argument as this one, as it has always been. The solution is quite simple, but unfortunately no one is really interested in it. Given the importance of having sufficient drivers in order to operate a timetable, it is quite surprising Avanti have allowed the agreement to lapse, but without knowing what dialogues have already taken place, it is impossible to pass judgement on who has been reasonable in this episode.

 

[Mugby]

Don’t all TOCs ?

In normal circumstances yes but aren't these now just management contracts under the direct control of the DfT? Does that make a difference?

 

[dk1]

It’s also a two-way street with a RDW agreement. For example whilst this is in place our depot has a guaranteed first 4 drivers who have put in for lieu leave each day are guaranteed to get their day off regardless of whether their turn can be covered. This is removed when no RDW agreement is in place.

 

[Red Devil]

It’s also a two-way street with a RDW agreement. For example whilst this is in place our depot has a guaranteed first 4 drivers who have put in for lieu leave each day are guaranteed to get their day off regardless of whether their turn can be covered. This is removed when no RDW agreement is in place.

So no one can get a lieu day off without a RDW agreement?
At my depot first 4 are granted regardless of any RDW agreement and if one is in place any extras requests covered by a rest day man/woman

 

[alangla]

No . It's not 50% it's 42% combined.

Not necessarily in Scotland, though basic of £67k - pension should take them right through the 41% tax & 12% NI band that exists between roughly £43k and £50k and into the 41+2% band above. Details of tax rates here: https://www.gov.uk/scottish-income-tax
NI isn’t devolved so the same rates apply across the UK: https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-rates-letters

 

[baz962]

Not necessarily in Scotland, though basic of £67k - pension should take them right through the 41% tax & 12% NI band that exists between roughly £43k and £50k and into the 41+2% band above. Details of tax rates here: https://www.gov.uk/scottish-income-tax
NI isn’t devolved so the same rates apply across the UK: https://www.gov.uk/national-insurance-rates-letters

So in Scotland it's 43% combined. Still not 50%. Only gets close to 50% if you earn 150k. That would be some rest day pay to hit that

Well I see about the strange area they hit 53% , though as you say they already go through that anyway and any rest days wouldn't be subject to it.

 

[dk1]

So no one can get a lieu day off without a RDW agreement?
At my depot first 4 are granted regardless of any RDW agreement and if one is in place any extras requests covered by a rest day man/woman

Oh yes of course you can but unfortunately run the risk of getting them declined by the roster clerk. Thankfully our duty traincrew managers are superb & break their necks to cover the shift for us.

 

[Tomnick]

So no one can get a lieu day off without a RDW agreement?
At my depot first 4 are granted regardless of any RDW agreement and if one is in place any extras requests covered by a rest day man/woman

At ours, first three are guaranteed off regardless, and a fourth is guaranteed as long as the RDW agreement remains in place. There should be sufficient spare provision in the links to cover at least the bare minimum necessary to fit everyone’s lieu/app days into the year, so a depot should never be dependent on a RDW agreement to guarantee at least one off!

 

[Red Devil]

Two week RDW agreement now been agreed.

 

[dk1]

Two week RDW agreement now been agreed.

That’s good to hear. Hopefully both sides can talk things through & sort out a longer agreement.