Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

[Bletchleyite]

Which on the Pendolinos, which I find slightly cramped and claustrophobic in Standard, is EXACTLY the way round I'd like it to be

Absolutely. My view on First Class remains that, give or take sham 1st like on LNR, if First Class was always 160% or thereabouts of the Standard fare applicable to that train (with the same fare rules etc) but consisted solely of the better seat, I would most likely default to it for all leisure journeys.

It seems quite likely that this new class will provide that for me.

I don't want freebies, I just want space and a seat that is both window and aisle.

 

[XAM2175]

I don't want freebies, I just want space and a seat that is both window and aisle.

Entirely my feeling too: my main reason for travelling in first class is 1+2 seating and a (generally) quieter and calmer atmosphere. Of course I won't complain if I happen to get freebies but in all truth I've no great problem with paying for a decent meal or drinks on board, if the selection isn't too limited and the prices are even vaguely reasonable. I've many a satisfactory experience along those lines with DB, SBB, ÖBB, and SNCF - whereas my experiences with VTWC/Avanti and VTEC/LNER always (bar one trip with VTEC in 2017) seemed to involve me travelling at times and/or in places where the full service wasn't either wasn't offered, or was unexpectedly unavailable.

 

[thelongestroad]

Apologies if its been asked but when's the full catering (other than the pate/scone/poppadom/cheese boxes) returning to Avanti?

 

[Butts]

Apologies if its been asked but when's the full catering (other than the pate/scone/poppadom/cheese boxes) returning to Avanti?

More importantly when is the booze back ?

 

[Journeyman]

Which on the Pendolinos, which I find slightly cramped and claustrophobic in Standard, is EXACTLY the way round I'd like it to be

I'm very happy on leisure trips to provide my own food and drink

Certainly if this is easy enough to book and priced right, I'll dump LNER for my Edinburgh to London journeys, where only the breakfast is worth having in first class anyway. It seems increasingly difficult to get decently priced first class advance tickets these days, and Seatfrog is just annoying.

I'd say that first class for me is 20% about the food and drink, and 80% about the space, privacy and comfort. I'll happily settle for the seat without at-seat service, and if I need to walk to the shop for a coffee, I'm not going to complain.

 

[Class83]

The catering provision on Avanti is so haphazard that I'd be quite happy to pay for the premium/first seat, but not the catering. If I buy my own food from the station M&S before boarding I at least know what I'm getting. Other than their Breakfast/Evening meal offer it's often limited and they have a weird system of organising the meal service by the departure time from Euston, so anyone boarding at Crewe or Preston northbound at 5-6pm is offered the afternoon tea menu rather than a proper meal. Drinks service is erratic and the number of days around Christmas and New Year designated 'weekends' so there is negligible catering provision is ridiculous.

 

[Dryce]

The catering provision on Avanti is so haphazard that I'd be quite happy to pay for the premium/first seat, but not the catering.

If on business then moving to get food means packing stuff and carrying it with me. So for business the at-seat service is attractive - even if it is pay for.

I'm surprised they don't try an at-seat ordering app.

 

[Trackman]

Other than their Breakfast/Evening meal offer it's often limited and they have a weird system of organising the meal service by the departure time from Euston

Do you mean taking orders before it sets off from Euston?

 

[voyagerdude220]

Do you mean taking orders before it sets off from Euston?

I think Class83 is referring to the way Avanti offers the designated menus depending on what time the train leaves it's origin, not necessarily the time it departs an en route Station.

E.g. A train departing London Euston at 17:00 may (pre Covid) offer hot evening meals, whereas a train which left London Euston at say 15:43 towards Glasgow via Birmingham wouldn't offer hot food, despite departing Birmingham New Street at 17:15.

 

[Ianno87]

I think Class83 is referring to the way Avanti offers the designated menus depending on what time the train leaves it's origin, not necessarily the time it departs an en route Station.

E.g. A train departing London Euston at 17:00 may (pre Covid) offer hot evening meals, whereas a train which left London Euston at say 15:43 towards Glasgow via Birmingham wouldn't offer hot food, despite departing Birmingham New Street at 17:15.

Presumably the logic is only having to load one type of meal at Euston?

 

[Techniquest]

Do they not have a large catering supply store in Birmingham or Wolverhampton? Surely in 2021 it cannot be beyond the wit of man or woman to load proper meals in a major city!

Mind you, based solely on my catering experience in 2008 on VTWC I would seriously not bother providing any complimentary food. Pre-ordered proper food, a little bit like how BA does their pre-orders for dietary requirements up to 24 hours in advance, would be a better way forward.

I would also prefer to have my main meal off-train though, purely because I know I can get better and get what I like, not what some random person thinks I'll like!

 

[Ianno87]

Do they not have a large catering supply store in Birmingham or Wolverhampton? Surely in 2021 it cannot be beyond the wit of man or woman to load proper meals in a major city!

Difference with the Euston-Birmingham-Scotland service is doing it with the restrictions of a through dwell time on a busy platform, so I can see why Avanti might want to avoid that operationally.

 

[Mikey C]

It is difficult to get catering timing exactly right when a service takes 4-5 hours, and people are only travelling part of the way

Back in the Virgin days, I got caught out catching a train from Lancaster back to London as I was unexpectedly offered a meal when I had already grabbed something to eat

 

[Techniquest]

Difference with the Euston-Birmingham-Scotland service is doing it with the restrictions of a through dwell time on a busy platform, so I can see why Avanti might want to avoid that operationally.

Fair point. Perhaps just cut out the catering and save a fortune on expenses. I can't even begin to imagine how much it must cost to run First Class catering every year!

No doubt it would prove unpopular to begin with, clearly it would be something I'd bin given the chance. Complimentary beverages, yes I'd keep those

 

[Bletchleyite]

Fair point. Perhaps just cut out the catering and save a fortune on expenses. I can't even begin to imagine how much it must cost to run First Class catering every year!

No doubt it would prove unpopular to begin with, clearly it would be something I'd bin given the chance. Complimentary beverages, yes I'd keep those

It must be considered profitable in terms of additional ticket sales/being able to charge more. It would be withdrawn otherwise (as most Standard trolleys have been) because I don't believe they are obliged to provide any of it. First Class is generally an unregulated commercial offering.

 

[Scotrail314209]

It must be considered profitable in terms of additional ticket sales/being able to charge more. It would be withdrawn otherwise (as most Standard trolleys have been) because I don't believe they are obliged to provide any of it. First Class is generally an unregulated commercial offering.

I believe prior to COVID and Avanti, the trolley was used on select services only. Mainly some Scotland services and Manchesters. I think it was weekday only though.

 

[route101]

I believe prior to COVID and Avanti, the trolley was used on select services only. Mainly some Scotland services and Manchesters. I think it was weekday only though.

Yes, occasionally a trolley would come on at Carlisle southbound on a morning service.

Personally Id have meals to order and would be happy to pay.

 

[Class83]

If on business then moving to get food means packing stuff and carrying it with me. So for business the at-seat service is attractive - even if it is pay for.

I'm surprised they don't try an at-seat ordering app.

Yeah, though I would generally just grab something from the station M&S before boarding, so not moving once seated. If in a rush to board, grab something from the shop before getting your laptop out.

I think Class83 is referring to the way Avanti offers the designated menus depending on what time the train leaves it's origin, not necessarily the time it departs an en route Station.

E.g. A train departing London Euston at 17:00 may (pre Covid) offer hot evening meals, whereas a train which left London Euston at say 15:43 towards Glasgow via Birmingham wouldn't offer hot food, despite departing Birmingham New Street at 17:15.

This is exactly the situation I mean. If they are going to do catering, there should be an afternoon snack meal service on departure from Euston, then a dinner service on departure from Preston.

Presumably the logic is only having to load one type of meal at Euston?

Easy enough to load a mix of afternoon snacks for service out of Euston and dinner for service after Preston, food will keep for 2 hours.

 

[Butts]

Fair point. Perhaps just cut out the catering and save a fortune on expenses. I can't even begin to imagine how much it must cost to run First Class catering every year!

No doubt it would prove unpopular to begin with, clearly it would be something I'd bin given the chance. Complimentary beverages, yes I'd keep those

Sod that for a game of soldiers !!!

I suppose you want the free alcohol removed as well ? - Killjoy or by beverages do you include alcoholic ones ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sod that for a game of soldiers !!!

I suppose you want the free alcohol removed as well ? - Killjoy or by beverages do you include alcoholic ones ?

I'd rather a cheaper fare and just to pick up my choice of ale at the station.

 

[Butts]

I'd rather a cheaper fare and just to pick up my choice of ale at the station.

I'd rather drink my Fare in Free Scotch - which I have done many times.

 

[Journeyman]

I'd rather a cheaper fare and just to pick up my choice of ale at the station.

Exactly, free booze is quite nice, but it's absolutely not a deal-breaker. I'd be far happier paying less for my ticket, and going without.

 

[Techniquest]

Sod that for a game of soldiers !!!

I suppose you want the free alcohol removed as well ? - Killjoy or by beverages do you include alcoholic ones ?

I'd remove the free alcohol, yes. Once upon a time, I'd be of a different view but that was now a long time ago (OK, December 2019 isn't *that* long ago but it feels like it), and my opinion on the consumption of alcohol won't get mentioned here. Too many unpleasant words involved...

Complimentary beverages I'd offer would be your average tea, coffee and a small variety of soft drinks. I'd probably go a little more upmarket for First Class drinks though, and offer a superior quality tea and coffee to that in Standard, even offering a limited variety of flavoured herbal tea. I've fallen in love with those, really helps to up the relaxation.

I'd rather a cheaper fare and just to pick up my choice of ale at the station.

Yes this would make much more sense. Offer a First Class fare at say £30 with alcoholic beverages but without supplying those the fare could easily drop to £20. Maybe £25, depending on the actual figures of course. Even so, if the difference was then not too drastic from Standard one would easily see an uplift in First Class uptake.

It's worth adding that on an average week my beverage consumption is plain water, flavoured herbal tea (which reminds me that I have a box of lemon flavoured green tea to try soon) and sugarless black coffee. Very occasionally, like today, I do have things like Pepsi Max, and occasionally I'll have a fancier drink from Starbucks.

I've been teetotal since January 3rd 2020, with exception of two glasses of sparkling wine (just to shut the mother up at the time) and more recently a bottle of beer in an extreme need to deal with a situation. Not happy about those beverages either, nor were they particularly enjoyable. I love being teetotal, everything is so much more enjoyable now

 

[py_megapixel]

The people who are likely to stop paying for first class if the free booze was cut from the offering are also those who are going to be the most expensive to the railway. As @Butts points out, it's perfectly possible for a passenger to drink alcohol to a value in excess of the fare paid.

 

[Butts]

The people who are likely to stop paying for first class if the free booze was cut from the offering are also those who are going to be the most expensive to the railway. As @Butts points out, it's perfectly possible for a passenger to drink alcohol to a value in excess of the fare paid.

Depending on the crew of course - some are tight as a ducks posterior ?

A lot of people decline the offer, so old soaks like me feel honour bound to make up for them.

 

[Bald Rick]

The point of the first class food / drinks offering is that until recently, weekday use of first was largely by people who weren’t paying for it themselves. Hence, to them, it was ‘free’.

Potentially a different world now.

 

[telstarbox]

I'd rather a cheaper fare and just to pick up my choice of ale at the station.

Yes - boarding at Euston / New Street / Piccadilly there's plenty of choice now for hot food and cans in the various shops. There must be over 20 brands of gin in a tin now! But is it more limited if you're starting your journey at the likes of Oxenholme or Penrith? If so then could a solution be to include a voucher for The Shop with the fare rather than full catering?

 

[Purple Orange]

Yes - boarding at Euston / New Street / Piccadilly there's plenty of choice now for hot food and cans in the various shops. There must be over 20 brands of gin in a tin now! But is it more limited if you're starting your journey at the likes of Oxenholme or Penrith? If so then could a solution be to include a voucher for The Shop with the fare rather than full catering?

This is true actually. When I’ve been heading home from London, I’ve often bought a few tins of ale for the journey in M&S at Euston rather than buy a beer on the train. The more I think about it, first class, or even Standard Premium, offers me little that I find to be worthwhile spending money on. 2+2 seating is fine for my needs.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I think Class83 is referring to the way Avanti offers the designated menus depending on what time the train leaves it's origin, not necessarily the time it departs an en route Station.

E.g. A train departing London Euston at 17:00 may (pre Covid) offer hot evening meals, whereas a train which left London Euston at say 15:43 towards Glasgow via Birmingham wouldn't offer hot food, despite departing Birmingham New Street at 17:15.

VTEC & LNER pre-Covid used to serve hot meals with their Rest of The Day Menu which solved this. Virgin Trains/Avanti always have served just cold snacks in between Brunch and Evening Meal sadly.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes - boarding at Euston / New Street / Piccadilly there's plenty of choice now for hot food and cans in the various shops. There must be over 20 brands of gin in a tin now! But is it more limited if you're starting your journey at the likes of Oxenholme or Penrith? If so then could a solution be to include a voucher for The Shop with the fare rather than full catering?

Or just take the cheaper fare and pay for the drink.