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Avanti West Coast: Standard Premium

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Trackman

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I hadn't paid any attention to that email, will open it and do the questionnaire now!


I got stuck in the same loop at 52% (on a PC). I had to choose the "none of them" option to progress!

EDIT And at 55%
I got there in the end.
Did you see the fancy catering options near the end?
 
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Trackman

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What fancy catering options?
We are not supposed to say, but I cannot remember anyway and you cannot re-visit survey.
It showed different dishes and menus and you had to say if they were appealing or not.
I have not looked at mine yet, are we talking Malt Whiskey ?
It didn't mention booze, but hey- you can have your say on the survey!
Yes. The first section of main meals looked nice
My first thought on option 1 was they were after a Michelin star! ;)
I went for the option 3 menu.
 

Butts

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I wouldn't mind a Jameson's :oops: -faux pas by Butts.

My survey froze towards the end and I had to abandon it.

The impression I got from the questioning was how little they could get away with in Standard Premium and 1st Class at various price levels. To be honest it became quite monotonous with all the different permutation's and I lost interest.
 

Bletchleyite

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To some extent with pricing they can just stick Advances up at various price levels and see what people buy or don't buy. Nothing like a real world experiment.
 

Obobru

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The survey was testing pricing models. I got the impression they intend to price Standard Premium £20-30 more than Standard and where looking to see how much they could push up pricing for First based on better meals which to me looked far less substantial and more "light" and some new seating. I think they need to push up prices in First as capacity will be limited to 1/2 by what the survey said and they will have less carriages as some will be turned over to Standard Premium which will also have a capacity limit of 2/3
 

Mikey C

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I did comment that the attractiveness of the new product depends on the relative improvement over the standard product

Indeed that will vary according to the time of day, and how busy standard is. In an empty standard carriage, where you can get a double seat with a decent view and table to yourself, there's less need to upgrade than if you're in a rammed standard carriage full of screaming children!
 

Energy

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I got the impression they intend to price Standard Premium £20-30 more than Standard
Rather steep for just a better seat, Chiltern charge £10 to upgrade to the 'Business Zone', effectively first without the meals.
 

Obobru

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Rather steep for just a better seat, Chiltern charge £10 to upgrade to the 'Business Zone', effectively first without the meals.
In the many price examples they gave they showed a price for Standard, Standard Premium and First then showed a price for each over and over and from memory not one was under £20 between Standard and Standard Premium. Between Standard Premium and First I saw prices varying from £40 to £100+ over the Standard Premium price.

Of course all of this might be a waste of time if the government are handed back the franchise as I would expect we would get some form of standard product on all long distance routes.
 

Trackman

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I think they need to push up prices in First as capacity will be limited to 1/2 by what the survey said and they will have less carriages as some will be turned over to Standard Premium which will also have a capacity limit of 2/3
See my post #259, this is what I was told before the survey.
To some extent with pricing they can just stick Advances up at various price levels and see what people buy or don't buy. Nothing like a real world experiment.
Exactly.
And advertise it as a trial.
They did IIRC, but it was only one route - they need to do it on all routes.
 

tc99

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Rather steep for just a better seat, Chiltern charge £10 to upgrade to the 'Business Zone', effectively first without the meals.
It's more than that. £15 off peak and £30 peak, even if you're only going from London to Banbury. Used to be a civilised way to end the week - then they closed the bar!
 

AlterEgo

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To some extent with pricing they can just stick Advances up at various price levels and see what people buy or don't buy. Nothing like a real world experiment.
Their great danger is cannibalising first class. They really ought to make first class a single carriage, ramp up the prices and put some proper bells and whistles on the product.
 

Bletchleyite

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Their great danger is cannibalising first class. They really ought to make first class a single carriage, ramp up the prices and put some proper bells and whistles on the product.

I believe that's what they are intending to do.

But then if 2+1 seating with no gimmicks at a more reasonable price is what people want of 1st, which is what it always used to be, why not wholly switch to that?
 

Energy

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But then if 2+1 seating with no gimmicks at a more reasonable price is what people want of 1st, which is what it always used to be, why not wholly switch to that?
I think we should go for just a better seat with food not included. The true 1st class will be HS2.
 

philosopher

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I believe that's what they are intending to do.

But then if 2+1 seating with no gimmicks at a more reasonable price is what people want of 1st, which is what it always used to be, why not wholly switch to that?
From what I understand first class in most of Europe is essentially more comfortable 2+1 seating without the freebies but with a smaller difference in price to second / standard class compared to the UK.
 

Grumpy Git

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This was on the BBC Breakfast program this morning. They had a live remote interview with a bloke from Modern Railways.
 

Frontera2

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Personally speaking I'd ditch the gimmicks (freebies) with the exception of drinks and basic snacks. With very few exceptions it's not the norm in First Class in Europe....
 

LNW-GW Joint

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I wonder what will happen to premium classes in the new order with GBR?
Since privatisation, the DfT has taken no interest in First Class travel or any on-train catering, leaving it entirely up to the private TOCs.
Fares and service levels are not regulated or specified, beyond possibly mandating that some sort of catering service exists.
So all the offerings are different (First, Business, Club) with different models of inclusive and paid-for services, including things like weekend upgrades.
And then there are the Standard-only TOCs.
The DfT did mandate a more equable balance between First and Standard on inter-city routes, with interior coach conversions on Virgin/Avanti, and in the way it specified IEP services.

I guess the "nationalisers" will want one system-wide setup, and maybe a Travellers-Fare-type organisation to deliver it.
Or we could just muddle on with TOC-specific offers (but who gets the revenue?).
Then there's "Gerald"...
 

Bletchleyite

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Then there's "Gerald"...

It would be politically untenable to reverse devolution of rail service operation, so any train-service-related changes will occur in England only.

The new organisation will effectively just provide infrastructure services (i.e. the Network Rail bit) to Wales and Scotland, other than English-operated cross border services like Avanti, LNER and GWR.
 

LNW-GW Joint

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It would be politically untenable to reverse devolution of rail service operation, so any train-service-related changes will occur in England only.
The new organisation will effectively just provide infrastructure services (i.e. the Network Rail bit) to Wales and Scotland, other than English-operated cross border services like Avanti, LNER and GWR.
Yes, but will it specify whether, and how, premium services are delivered (in England)?
DfT haven't done this, to date.
 

Wolfie

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I wonder what will happen to premium classes in the new order with GBR?
Since privatisation, the DfT has taken no interest in First Class travel or any on-train catering, leaving it entirely up to the private TOCs.
Fares and service levels are not regulated or specified, beyond possibly mandating that some sort of catering service exists.
So all the offerings are different (First, Business, Club) with different models of inclusive and paid-for services, including things like weekend upgrades.
And then there are the Standard-only TOCs.
The DfT did mandate a more equable balance between First and Standard on inter-city routes, with interior coach conversions on Virgin/Avanti, and in the way it specified IEP services.

I guess the "nationalisers" will want one system-wide setup, and maybe a Travellers-Fare-type organisation to deliver it.
Or we could just muddle on with TOC-specific offers (but who gets the revenue?).
Then there's "Gerald"...
If l was being very cynical about the likelihood that First class would completely disappear l would just note that MPs can still claim it.....
 

AlterEgo

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From what I understand first class in most of Europe is essentially more comfortable 2+1 seating without the freebies but with a smaller difference in price to second / standard class compared to the UK.
But many European services have a restaurant car. Avanti don't.
 

Muzer

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Does anyone know exactly how this is going to work?

Seems like they've largely replaced Weekend First upgrades with these. Or at the very least, they've severely jacked up the price of Weekend Firsts.

This is all well and good for the routes that have Standard Premium — indeed perhaps this means they could start to offer a more substantial meal service at weekends (I can dream, can't I?) — but for routes that don't (I'm especially thinking Chester) this is a pretty rubbish deal.
 

philosopher

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On Avanti’s website it says it costs £15 from London to Birmingham and £30 from London to Glasgow. For a less than 90 minute journey to Birmingham I am not sure £15 for a bigger seat is worth it, unless there are no seats left in standard. For a four and half journey to Glasgow however it makes a lot more sense.
 

Journeyman

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On Avanti’s website it says it costs £15 from London to Birmingham and £30 from London to Glasgow. For a less than 90 minute journey to Birmingham I am not sure £15 for a bigger seat is worth it, unless there are no seats left in standard. For a four and half journey to Glasgow however it makes a lot more sense.
I'd happily pay both those supplements.
 
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