Aviation Discussion

[GRALISTAIR]

I think nowadays most casual flyers (including people with larger budgets) especially on short-haul are looking for price and availability - they won't go out their way to fly one carrier or another. People jump on Skyscanner and it tells them who they should be flying with.

In the UK this maybe true. In the USA it is not so much.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Indeed, but I'm not sure anything would have been drastically different on the service front. Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I still think that BA does look after frequent flyers reasonably well. I'm Silver which isn't all that hard to achieve and I get lounge access, priority boarding and they try to hold the seat next to me free. I would get none of those benefits if I acheived the same mid-level status on Lufthansa, Air France or KLM. I have also often paid fares that are priced the same or lower than the equivalent on easyJet. I understand that many are still unhappy with the lack of free catering on short-haul economy (although in the latter years this was something very modest like a biscuit) but after Covid I doubt it will return. I've also flown long-haul on BA in the back of economy and to be honest I didn't find it much different to flying the equivalent on Emirates.

No, I completely agree. I've been Silver for about ten years with a couple of years at Gold. Silver is relatively easy to attain even for an economy and premium economy traveller. The "theoretical seating" blocked middle seats are up maybe even there with the best of the silver benefits, along with worldwide lounges, and they don't even publicise it! I can live with buy-on-board but long haul catering in all classes in really not up to snuff. Qatar do a fantastic job on all counts, and I use them when possible, and not only does the BA Shiny Card carry weight on Qatar, it also allows some very rapid accumulation of tier points as London to practically anywhere via DOH counts as two long hauls!

 

[daodao]

For some years, the name British Airways has been a misnomer. It would be more appropriate for it to be called London Airways, given that essentially all its services operate to/from London's airports, after it abandoned other domestic services and international services from UK regional airports. It isn't even a British owned airline anymore although it is a British flag carrier; IAG has its headquarters in Spain.

 

[najaB]

It isn't even a British owned airline anymore although it is a British flag carrier; IAG has its headquarters in Spain.

If you want to get specific you would need to know where the majority of IAG's shareholders are from.

 

[miami]

BAEC still has value, definitely. But if you don't have BAEC then you can forget it, which wouldn't really encourage new people to use the carrier. That said, looking after your regulars is the first thing in business, and BA do manage that.

I used to have gold guest list on BA, but after a poor flight to Sydney in First I started looking elsewhere. Qatar in business and Finn Air in business was so much better than BA in first, and about half the price of BA in business.

One trip I did to Sydney

Finnair business Manchester to Helsinki (An embraer, but the flight and service was far better than the domestic flight to Heathrow on BA)
Lounge in Helsinki better than at Heathrow (as gold I had access to both Helsinki and Heathrow first class lounges)
Finnair Business to Singapore, better than BA business, and service was better than BA in first.
BA Business to Sydney.

On the return BA even upgraded me from Business to First as far as Singapore.

The price for this was less than BA in premium economy.

My experience of BA as a frequent flyer was everything going down hill through penny pinching, but it was the lack of apology over the snooty purser breaking their own rules and making my family less safe (she clearly didn't like having a 9 month old in the front cabin and insisted he travel in our lap rather than on the seat we'd bought for him) that was the final straw.

I'm sure they didn't miss my £30k a year, but it felt good.

(of course with covid I haven't actually flown since March - had two trips in March cancelled - one by Cyprus immigration, one by US immigration)

 

[Jamesrob637]

For some years, the name British Airways has been a misnomer. It would be more appropriate for it to be called London Airways, given that essentially all its services operate to/from London's airports, after it abandoned other domestic services and international services from UK regional airports. It isn't even a British owned airline anymore although it is a British flag carrier; IAG has its headquarters in Spain.

If they don't reinstate their A380s they'll be British Scareways to me with nothing but twin jets

***I'm falling asleep just at the thought of that***

 

[WestCoast]

No, I completely agree. I've been Silver for about ten years with a couple of years at Gold. Silver is relatively easy to attain even for an economy and premium economy traveller. The "theoretical seating" blocked middle seats are up maybe even there with the best of the silver benefits, along with worldwide lounges, and they don't even publicise it! I can live with buy-on-board but long haul catering in all classes in really not up to snuff. Qatar do a fantastic job on all counts, and I use them when possible, and not only does the BA Shiny Card carry weight on Qatar, it also allows some very rapid accumulation of tier points as London to practically anywhere via DOH counts as two long hauls!

That's certainly a sweet spot. I have done most of my BA flying short-haul in Euro Traveller, but actually maintained Silver by flying long-haul with Qatar. It's very pleasant to be able to fly directly from Edinburgh to Doha and beyond on shiny new 787s and A350s.

For some years, the name British Airways has been a misnomer. It would be more appropriate for it to be called London Airways, given that essentially all its services operate to/from London's airports, after it abandoned other domestic services and international services from UK regional airports. It isn't even a British owned airline anymore although it is a British flag carrier; IAG has its headquarters in Spain.

True and I'd love to see them doing more regional flying but they have their reasons for not doing so. BA sold their old regional flying arm to Flybe around 2005-2006 (I can't remember) and well, we know how that ended sadly. Pre-covid, BA had been running some weekend schedules from regional airports like Manchester and Edinburgh to leisure destinations in Europe, using the aircraft from London City that can't operate when it closes. I wonder if they will return in the future.

 

[Royston Vasey]

That's certainly a sweet spot. I have done most of my BA flying short-haul in Euro Traveller, but actually maintained Silver by flying long-haul with Qatar. It's very pleasant to be able to fly directly from Edinburgh to Doha and beyond on shiny new 787s and A350s.

The downside is the Oneworld lounges in DOH which are pretty poor, especially compared to the palatial actual business and first class lounges. That said, once you have your boarding pass checked at the bottom of the escalator, you rarely get checked again so *ahem* theoretically if you did turn right into the "First Class" lounge instead of left into the "Business Class" lounge you'd probably not be stopped

On this count, Cathay via HKG is vastly superior as the Business Class/Sapphire lounges are some of the best in the world. I can and have spent hours there deliberately!

 

[jfollows]

For some years, the name British Airways has been a misnomer. It would be more appropriate for it to be called London Airways, given that essentially all its services operate to/from London's airports, after it abandoned other domestic services and international services from UK regional airports. It isn't even a British owned airline anymore although it is a British flag carrier; IAG has its headquarters in Spain.

BA once sent me a flyer, back in the days before they had discovered email and the Internet, extolling the virtues of the new service they were about to introduce from London Gatwick to New York JFK. The problem was that they posted it to me in Wilmslow, so they knew where I lived, and I knew that they were re-using the slots at JFK from their Manchester-New York service which they'd cancelled.

They never had loadings acceptable to them in Business Class on the Manchester-New York flights, which is where they made their money (there was no First Class, I think they used to use a 767). I was upgraded to Business Class twice - both ways - the last time I used the service.

In recent years when I've used BA I've preferred to get the train to Heathrow rather than suffer their dreadful Manchester-London Heathrow service. It was usually quicker to go by train from central Manchester to IBM Bedfont Lakes, walking distance from Heathrow T4, than it was to fly. It was almost always quicker for the return journey because of the queuing and waiting time at Heathrow before the - usually delayed - flight back to Manchester.

The best thing I ever did with BA was to turn my Avios into a box of wine. I've never used them since.

BA now appears to have got worse since I abandoned them, and look like a dreadful company to work for as well as offering an over-priced sub-standard passenger experience.

 

[Butts]

For some years, the name British Airways has been a misnomer. It would be more appropriate for it to be called London Airways, given that essentially all its services operate to/from London's airports, after it abandoned other domestic services and international services from UK regional airports. It isn't even a British owned airline anymore although it is a British flag carrier; IAG has its headquarters in Spain.

Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness enable you to connect to the world on BA - have you heard of Scotland ?

 

[daodao]

Glasgow, Edinburgh, Aberdeen and Inverness enable you to connect to the world on BA - have you heard of Scotland ?

The only services operated by BA from these airports are to/from London, bar the odd seasonal weekend holiday route, hence my view of BA as London Airways. Taking Edinburgh Airport as an example, Easyjet and Ryanair provide a much wider range of direct destinations than BA.

 

[Butts]

The only services operated by BA from these airports are to/from London, bar the odd seasonal weekend holiday route, hence my view of BA as London Airways. Taking Edinburgh Airport as an example, Easyjet and Ryanair provide a much wider range of direct destinations than BA.

Indeed, try getting a refund out either in the current climate, or a return ticket that is not made up of two singles.

Try to connect to the World !!!

 

[miami]

On this count, Cathay via HKG is vastly superior as the Business Class/Sapphire lounges are some of the best in the world. I can and have spent hours there deliberately!

First class Wing at HK is a lovely place to spend a few hours, but ultimatly it's just a fancy lounge. My last HK layover was 12 hours, I went into the city, walked over Victoria Peak and down into Sandy Bay, had lunch, and generally got acclimatized to the jetlag.

The only services operated by BA from these airports are to/from London, bar the odd seasonal weekend holiday route, hence my view of BA as London Airways. Taking Edinburgh Airport as an example, Easyjet and Ryanair provide a much wider range of direct destinations than BA.

Indeed, they serve Amsterdam and New York as much as Edinburgh and Inverness.

I think KLM have more rights to claim to be a British airline than BA. They serve 14 UK airports outside of London. BA serve 7. Lufthansa serve 7 as well.

If you've going to have to change it doesn't really matter whether it's at Heathrow, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam

 

[BayPaul]

I think KLM have more rights to claim to be a British airline than BA. They serve 14 UK airports outside of London. BA serve 7. Lufthansa serve 7 as well.

Interestingly it works the other way around too - BA serves 2 airports in the Netherlands (Amsterdam & Rotterdam), as far as I can tell, KLM currently only serves AMS.

 

[najaB]

I think KLM have more rights to claim to be a British airline than BA. They serve 14 UK airports outside of London. BA serve 7. Lufthansa serve 7 as well.

But of those 14, how many would it make sense for BA to serve (given that it would be for connections to London)? Maybe East Midlands and Leeds? And in pre-Covid times they would realistically need to serve both Gatwick and Heathrow.

 

[507021]

Not quite on topic, but I couldn't find anything in the modelling sub forum.

At the moment, I'm considering purchasing an NG Models Boeing 757 in Britannia Airways livery, but I wanted to try and find out if any collectors think they're worth the money before making a decision. The cheapest example I can find is £35 from a seller on eBay, with a Dutch model shop asking for around £10 more.

Thanks in advance.

 

[WestCoast]

I think KLM have more rights to claim to be a British airline than BA. They serve 14 UK airports outside of London. BA serve 7. Lufthansa serve 7 as well.

KLM can't hold a stick to Ryanair for that title - 17 non-London UK airports at the last count....

If you've going to have to change it doesn't really matter whether it's at Heathrow, Frankfurt, or Amsterdam

In theory, no. However from Scotland at least, BA has tended to be far more frequent to London which has made for better connections. I think Lufthansa was once a day from Glasgow to Frankfurt whereas BA was something like up to 8 times a day to Heathrow. I also tend to prefer Heathrow T5 to both Amsterdam and Frankfurt. It may well be very different if you're flying from say Manchester.

The only services operated by BA from these airports are to/from London, bar the odd seasonal weekend holiday route, hence my view of BA as London Airways. Taking Edinburgh Airport as an example, Easyjet and Ryanair provide a much wider range of direct destinations than BA.

They both do but I personally have quite often found that neither fly where I actually want to go, when I want to go. Having said that, I have flown Ryanair more than BA in the last 10 years, mainly because they have a good selection of sunshine destinations.

 

[najaB]

They both do but I personally have quite often found that neither fly where I actually want to go, when I want to go. Having said that, I have flown Ryanair more than BA in the last 10 years, mainly because they have a good selection of sunshine destinations.

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a frequent flyer, but I've also flown BA + codeshare partners more than I have Ryanair over the last decade. Though AFKLM + partners probably just pip them to the top spot.

 

[Mills444]

Not quite on topic, but I couldn't find anything in the modeling subforum.

At the moment, I'm considering purchasing an NG Models Boeing 757 in Britannia Airways livery, but I wanted to try and find out if any collectors think they're worth the money before making a decision. The cheapest example I can find is £35 from a seller on eBay, with a Dutch model shop asking for around £10 more.

Thanks in advance.

Hello, as far as I am aware NG models are quite a new manufacturer but from what I've heard they are very nice and certainly from the website they look nice (even the EasyJet A350!). However, what I normally do is search on youtube such as this

to see what others think.

 

[miami]

But of those 14, how many would it make sense for BA to serve (given that it would be for connections to London)? Maybe East Midlands and Leeds? And in pre-Covid times they would realistically need to serve both Gatwick and Heathrow.

If you live in say Norwich, what makes more sense, trekking 3h30 to Heathrow on train and underground, driving 2h30 round the M25, or flying from your local airport?

Hull is about 4 hours to Heathrow.

From Middlesborough it's a 1 hour drive or 2 hour train to Newcastle airport, to get a 1 hour plane to heathrow.

Cardiff and Bristol is probably fine with a fast train to Paddington and easy change to Heathrow, although adds massively to the cost and risk as there are no through tickets -- a delay on your train means losing your flight.

Birmingham you'd drive given how difficult Heathrow is to get to by public transport.

HS2 will make Heathrow more accessible, but the idea that BA is London airways is very true.

Amsterdam & Rotterdam), as far as I can tell, KLM currently only serves AMS

Not really the same - Rotterdam is a 25 minute train ride from Schipol. That's quicker than transferring from T5 to T3. Schipol is closer to Rotterdam than Heathrow is to London.

Yes, Groningen and Eindhoven aren't great for Schipol, but they are still far better than Norwich or Plymouth

 

[BayPaul]

Not really the same - Rotterdam is a 25 minute train ride from Schipol. That's quicker than transferring from T5 to T3. Schipol is closer to Rotterdam than Heathrow is to London.

Yes, Groningen and Eindhoven aren't great for Schipol, but they are still far better than Norwich or Plymouth

It's a similar model - hub and spoke operations tend to mean that destinations near the hub lose out, and so are better served by hubs further away. Hence why English airports are better served by KLM and by the low costs who operate on point to point.

 

[WestCoast]

I'm not by any stretch of the imagination a frequent flyer, but I've also flown BA + codeshare partners more than I have Ryanair over the last decade. Though AFKLM + partners probably just pip them to the top spot.

Since I started recording my flights on Flightradar which goes back about a decade, I count 66 sectors on BA and 70 on Ryanair. BA is ahead if you include flights on their partners. The latter was boosted by a period when I had a partner over in Dublin so flew them a lot and flown BA mostly for work. After that, Flybe and easyJet are most common. Given how much flying I've done on low cost airlines, it certainly lowers your expectations....

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Well I am am Diamond Medallion on Delta who code share with KLM-AF and who own 49% of Virgin Atlantic so my opinion is biased.

 

[507021]

Hello, as far as I am aware NG models are quite a new manufacturer but from what I've heard they are very nice and certainly from the website they look nice (even the EasyJet A350!). However, what I normally do is search on youtube such as this

to see what others think.

Thanks very much.

 

[joncombe]

I'm not an expert, so I guess you're going to have to persevere and send letters etc.

I see (https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6118476/easyjet-cancellations-and-refunds/p91) comments about similar things, so perhaps it helps to know that you're not alone:

There is no way in my mind that a 09:40 Luton-Inverness flight on 8/7/2020 can be "rescheduled" or "amended" to a 10:45 Gatwick-Inverness flight on 9/7/2020 and I expect that eventually you'll get your money back, but not without some effort on your part.

Thanks jfollows. The post you quoted from moneysavingexpert.com is actually also mine! But there are others on there with the same issue.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Well I am famous now

 

[Butts]

As things stand at the moment as a Scottish Resident is there any legal restrictions that would prevent me flying from Edinburgh to Gibraltar via London Heathrow.

Travel between England and Scotland although advised against is not mandatory.

English Restrictions on travelling abroad are differentiated from the other UK Nations on the FCO website. From what I can see these apply to English Residents only.

The FCO still has Gibraltar as an exempted destination from The All but essential Travel advice, with no quarantine required on return to the UK for England or Scotland.

As far as I am aware the Scottish Government has not replicated the English restriction on Travel Abroad ?

 

[Mike395]

As things stand at the moment as a Scottish Resident is there any legal restrictions that would prevent me flying from Edinburgh to Gibraltar via London Heathrow.

Travel between England and Scotland although advised against is not mandatory.

English Restrictions on travelling abroad are differentiated from the other UK Nations on the FCO website. From what I can see these apply to English Residents only.

The FCO still has Gibraltar as an exempted destination from The All but essential Travel advice, with no quarantine required on return to the UK for England or Scotland.

As far as I am aware the Scottish Government has not replicated the English restriction on Travel Abroad ?

No - you should be fine, and if using the Flight Connections flow through Heathrow the chances of even being questioned are pretty much zero. If travelling with checked baggage on separate tickets so having to re-clear security, you might have a couple of Heathrow staffers/police wanting to know your reasons for travel, but again if you explain you're self-connecting, there's going to be no issue there.

 

[CC 72100]

Not seen this posted elsewhere, but last flight from Berlin Tegel (TXL) this afternoon - an Air France departure to Paris.

 

[najaB]

Not seen this posted elsewhere, but last flight from Berlin Tegel (TXL) this afternoon - an Air France departure to Paris.

IIRC, Air France also operated the first commercial service to Tegel - if not the very first then on the first day.