Aviation Discussion

[Wolfie]

Well, yes and no. If BA (or another large airline) had taken them over then the dual impact of the 787 engine issues and 737 Max grounding would have been easier to mitigate since they (Norwegian) wouldn't have had to lease aircraft at such high rates.

Fair comment. I assume that ultimately Boeing must be on the hook for some of those costs though.

 

[FQTV]

From all my experiences of them, Norwegian has proved to be a really very good shorthaul airline. The longhaul venture was, at best, a ‘brave’ one, though, and their costs were far too high.

Worse, the strong reputation that they have for shorthaul was in real danger of being permanently compromised by the generally dismal service levels of the longhaul operation (I’m not talking about staff service here; I mean the unreliability of operations and limited to zero contingency).

I’m naturally very sad that the Gatwick longhaul base is closing, and I know one of the senior people there, too, but I can’t help feeling that it was always an ill-starred venture and it’s demise might at least help assure the shorthaul ops - and protect and grow the jobs there as the industry restarts.

 

[telstarbox]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

 

[najaB]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

Not yet, no. I was *just* about to then in came more restrictions. I will need to soon though, need to come home at some point.

 

[Butts]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

Just had to cancel Tirana next month.


Got Orlando booked for Mid-May !!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

I've now got a holiday moved to July 2022. I wouldn't say I'm 100% confident it will go ahead.

 

[pitdiver]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

Yes I have. My wife and I are booked to fly Edinburgh-Kirkwall in June with Loganair. . Been invited to a wedding

 

[najaB]

Got Orlando booked for Mid-May !!

Don't know if I'd be looking at the USA this side of summer - their Coronavirus situation is going to take longer than ours to get under some semblance of control, even considering Biden's good start.

 

[nlogax]

Don't know if I'd be looking at the USA this side of summer - their Coronavirus situation is going to take longer than ours to get under some semblance of control, even considering Biden's good start.

Indeed. Have already had to postpone a Canadian trip until September, there's no way am I expecting to be able to return to the US until autumn / winter at the earliest.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Yes I have. My wife and I are booked to fly Edinburgh-Kirkwall in June with Loganair. . Been invited to a wedding

That's domestic so you might be ok!

 

[pitdiver]

That's domestic so you might be ok!

I am keeping my fingers crossed otherwise it will be by ferry

 

[TravelDream]

You'd have to be bold to do so I think.

Best case scenario for summer holidays is if the vaccines prove to be more resilient than hoped against variants and the EU vaccine programme catches up with ours.

 

[gsnedders]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

Yes, but only £80 return for flights to Berlin to visit family in September. Cheap enough that I wouldn't be overly concerned by simply not taking them, even ignoring the currently increased flexibility, but also suspect it'll be okay then, and got the booking done while they're cheap.

 

[Bald Rick]

i wonder if all those people who paid £60 return for flights to Geneva / Salzburg this half term have claimed their refunds...

 

[TravelDream]

Very touch and go whether international travel will go ahead.
Cases in the summer across Europe could very well be low (if we are following last year's pattern) and even countries across the EU will have vaccinated all vulnerable groups by then. Data from Israel looks excellent on the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine. https://twitter.com/trtworld/status/1360276784152010756

The real question is with variants (IDK if anyone has studied basic biology, but that is exactly what viruses do. It shouldn't come as a surprise) and the government's reaction to them in terms of quarantines, hotel quarantines and testing. I think summer holidays would survive the last one, but not quarantine.

 

[najaB]

IDK if anyone has studied basic biology, but that [mutate] is exactly what viruses do. It shouldn't come as a surprise.

It did to Dido Harding:

Between that business plan being published and us going into the lockdown that we are in now we have seen the virus mutate. We have seen the new variant emerge, which was something that none of us were able to predict

And this is the person heading our test and trace program!

Reactions as Harding claims nobody could have predicted Covid virus would mutate

"If they didn’t know this then what exactly are Dido Harding’s £1000 a day consultants doing for their money?"

www.thelondoneconomic.com

 

[Aictos]

Has anyone been bold enough to book flights in 2021 yet?

I would but with the Covid19 restrictions, I wouldn't risk it even though I rather do some flights.

Having to take a Covid19 test prior to flying is one thing I don't like although I understand the need for it, I especially detest the part when they stick it so far up your nose it makes your eyes water.

 

[WestCoast]

Very touch and go whether international travel will go ahead.
Cases in the summer across Europe could very well be low (if we are following last year's pattern) and even countries across the EU will have vaccinated all vulnerable groups by then. Data from Israel looks excellent on the efficacy of the Pfizer vaccine. https://twitter.com/trtworld/status/1360276784152010756

The real question is with variants (IDK if anyone has studied basic biology, but that is exactly what viruses do. It shouldn't come as a surprise) and the government's reaction to them in terms of quarantines, hotel quarantines and testing. I think summer holidays would survive the last one, but not quarantine.

It also depends on what the entry restrictions/conditions will be, last year most EU countries were quite open to UK tourists but that's not anywhere near guaranteed this year. Now we are out of the UK/EU transition period there is no clear expectation for EU countries to permit leisure travellers from the UK. I'd expect some tourist markets like Portugal and Greece to push for it but with lots of conditions. Greece has already gone on record saying there will likely be expectations for UK arrivals around having had the vaccination as well as presenting a negative test. In the other words, the barriers to entry will be as high as those those on the way back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It also depends on what the entry restrictions/conditions will be, last year most EU countries were quite open to UK tourists but that's not anywhere near guaranteed this year. Now we are out of the UK/EU transition period there is no clear expectation for EU countries to permit leisure travellers from the UK. I'd expect some tourist markets like Portugal and Greece to push for it but with lots of conditions. Greece has already gone on record saying there will likely be expectations for UK arrivals around having had the vaccination as well as presenting a negative test. In the other words, the barriers to entry will be as high as those those on the way back.

I'd just say it's prudent not to plan any discretionary international travel this year, and to be flexible about next year, too. Plenty of places in the UK to go to, ideally by train.

 

[WestCoast]

I'd just say it's prudent not to plan any discretionary international travel this year, and to be flexible about next year, too. Plenty of places in the UK to go to, ideally by train.

For sure, however I'm certain I'm not alone in having rebooked a trip from last year with a voucher I received in lieu of a cash refund which was not forthcoming.

I thought about heading down to Cornwall but spending endless hours on an XC Voyager doesn't scream holiday to me (yes I know there are other ways). I probably won't even leave Scotland, plenty of world class destinations on the doorstep.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I thought about heading down to Cornwall but spending endless hours on an XC Voyager doesn't scream holiday to me (yes I know there are other ways). I probably won't even leave Scotland, plenty of world class destinations on the doorstep.

One of the things I'll do as soon as I'm allowed is a ride on one of the Scottish rural lines. Not done the Far North for a while, perhaps that. Slightly envious that you've got them on the doorstep!

On topic, er, I might fly up to Scotland to save a bit of time?

 

[WestCoast]

One of the things I'll do as soon as I'm allowed is a ride on one of the Scottish rural lines. Not done the Far North for a while, perhaps that. Slightly envious that you've got them on the doorstep!

On topic, er, I might fly up to Scotland to save a bit of time?

Definitely, the West Highland is probably still my all time favourite although I also have a lot of time for the Far North.

Speaking of planes, the Glasgow - Barra service for the landing on the beach is a must for any aviation/travel enthusiast, it regularly makes the lists for the most interesting flights in the world. I'm sure it's been discussed here. I must make the time for that this year, had a failed attempt last year.

From the South East, I think you only really save much time flying if we're talking Highlands / Grampian so flying to Aberdeen and Inverness, but I think the most time effective way is probably the sleeper. It does depend on your start and end points, pre-pandemic I'd occasionally need to be in my company's London office near Aldgate for 9.30am. All in, it was about an hour quicker taking the car / a taxi from my flat to Glasgow Airport, flying to London City then DLR to Tower Gateway followed by a short walk vs train to Euston then the Tube.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speaking of planes, the Glasgow - Barra service for the landing on the beach is a must for any aviation/travel enthusiast, it regularly makes the lists for the most interesting flights in the world. I'm sure it's been discussed here. I must make the time for that this year, had a failed attempt last year.

Yep, that one is definitely on the list.

From the South East, I think you only really save much time flying if we're talking Highlands / Grampian so flying to Aberdeen and Inverness, but I think the most time effective way is probably the sleeper. It does depend on your start and end points, pre-pandemic I'd occasionally need to be in my company's London office near Aldgate for 9.30am. All in, it was about an hour quicker taking the car / a taxi from my flat to Glasgow Airport, flying to London City then DLR to Tower Gateway followed by a short walk vs train to Euston then the Tube.

Trouble with the Sleeper is that I don't sleep very well on it, so I wouldn't enjoy the rest of the journey very much. I do want to give the Mk5s a go at some point, but not with much to do on the day after it. I'm half an hour's drive from Luton, so if there's a flight at the right time it wins by about an hour on daytime trains.

 

[WestCoast]

Yep, that one is definitely on the list.



Trouble with the Sleeper is that I don't sleep very well on it, so I wouldn't enjoy the rest of the journey very much. I do want to give the Mk5s a go at some point, but not with much to do on the day after it. I'm half an hour's drive from Luton, so if there's a flight at the right time it wins by about an hour on daytime trains.

That's fair enough. I'm usually okay as I'm laying flat, however it's never a perfect sound sleep even on the new stock. In contrast, trying to sleep in a seat I just can't do it, that's why I find long-haul overnight flights in economy to be torture. I was like a zombie after 13 hours on an "overnight" from KL to Heathrow.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's fair enough. I'm usually okay as I'm laying flat, however it's never a perfect sound sleep even on the new stock. In contrast, trying to sleep in a seat I just can't do it, that's why I find long-haul overnight flights in economy to be torture. I was like a zombie after 13 hours on an "overnight" from KL to Heathrow.

I absolutely agree, and so always try to do day flights if at all possible. They are boring (take plenty of books), but when going west you just stay up for a 30-odd hour day, go to bed at say 7pm, and wake up nearly fully reset at 6am the next day.

Having now had a second DVT (that's deep vein thrombosis, not a vehicle full of nothing on the end of a loco-hauled train) maybe my long-haul days should be considered over, anyway.

 

[najaB]

That's fair enough. I'm usually okay as I'm laying flat, however it's never a perfect sound sleep even on the new stock.

I don't know why, but I used to get a better night's sleep on the Mk3's than I did in my own bed! I've not had a chance to try the new stock yet.

In contrast, trying to sleep in a seat I just can't do it, that's why I find long-haul overnight flights in economy to be torture. I was like a zombie after 13 hours on an "overnight" from KL to Heathrow.

I was the same, but flying back from Brazil a couple years ago I managed to fall asleep properly and I've not had any issues since. I slept very soundly on my last overnight long-haul flight (SFO-LHR), I'll need to see what happens with BGI-LHR in a few weeks time.

Now that you two have put the idea in my mind, I'll definitely be booking a flight to Barra over the summer, the only question is if to fly back or get the ferry and train for a real west coast experience?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don't know why, but I used to get a better night's sleep on the Mk3's than I did in my own bed! I've not had a chance to try the new stock yet.

The main problem I find is transverse bunks which cause the blood to go to my head/feet at each corner. I prefer longitudinal couchettes as a result (and indeed did get a bit of kip on the "Megabus with beds") but because the Sleeper reverses this isn't possible, as going head first could be dangerous in a collision. (This is the reason the "pods" didn't happen, I believe).

Now that you two have put the idea in my mind, I'll definitely be booking a flight to Barra over the summer, the only question is if to fly back or get the ferry and train for a real west coast experience?

That does sound like fun, though a beach takeoff must be as fun as a beach landing. I find takeoff the most fun part of flying.

 

[najaB]

That does sound like fun, though a beach takeoff must be as fun as a beach landing. I find takeoff the most fun part of flying.

It could work either way - here's the summer timetable: https://calmac.co.uk/summer-timetables/Oban-Castlebay

 

[Butts]

The main problem I find is transverse bunks which cause the blood to go to my head/feet at each corner. I prefer longitudinal couchettes as a result (and indeed did get a bit of kip on the "Megabus with beds") but because the Sleeper reverses this isn't possible, as going head first could be dangerous in a collision. (This is the reason the "pods" didn't happen, I believe).



That does sound like fun, though a beach takeoff must be as fun as a beach landing. I find takeoff the most fun part of flying.

Having completed the return journey a few years ago when Flybe provided the service (A lot cheaper than Loganair) in a Saab Twin Otter both take off and landing on Barra are a wonderful experience.

The flight across from Glasgow was great low over the hills for a panoramic view. We could see the "Pilots View" as the cockpit door was open throughout. The Co-Pilot was the "trolley dolly" and did the safety briefing. There was a card in the pocket telling you how to fly the plane - almost !!

Barra Airport is tiny and the security virtually non-existent, you walk out of the Café across the beach and onto the Plane.

My Hire Car was parked in the Car Park with the keys in the ignition - returned in the same fashion.

The B&B didn't need a key the door was unlocked.

If you are early there is a wonderful deserted beach on the other side of the road from the Airport.

It's surreal taxying at GLA in a fun sized almost toy plane past all the other "Giant Aircraft" (by comparison) before a real take off watching the pilots every move through the open cabin door.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's surreal taxying at GLA in a fun sized almost toy plane past all the other "Giant Aircraft" (by comparison) before a real take off watching the pilots every move through the open cabin door.

I've done something similar but watching from the co-pilot seat - I did a "taster experience" from Liverpool Airport and we took off from and landed on the main runway between all the easyJets and Ryanairs, quite surreal!