Azuma Rough Riding

[Chiltern006]

only ever had a problem with the ride quality on the 5 car units. never had a problem with the 9s

 

[Severn40]

Yesterday travelling on a 5 car GWR service from Cardiff Central to London (another story about short formations) with loads of people standing up. Usual rough (and noisy) ride but so much so one standing passenger fell over.

Whilst the ride is not forgivable on a modern train, got me thinking what can be done with such a modern fleet to make it more comfortable (and quieter)?

 

[Goldfish62]

I've travelled on 800s on GWR, LNER and HT which ranged from just about acceptable to horrendous. What has struck me is the amount of variation.

The 395s and 458s both rode poorly when introduced, but modifications made them much better. If improvements to the 800s are possible is there actually the will on today's railway to do anything about it?

Whilst the ride is not forgivable on a modern train, got me thinking what can be done with such a modern fleet to make it more comfortable (and quieter)?

I'm wondering how much the noise levels are due to the inset windows and the complete lack of streamlining on the roof. I imagine there are plenty of vortices set up by those lumps of equipment sat on the roof.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The ride I find to be quite firm like Desiros, but I don't find them noisy. The whole package feels very similar to a 444 to me.

 

[AlbertBeale]

As well he shouldn’t be. It’s neither the law nor a requirement of LNER to wear one.

As for the rough ride, I’ve experienced this a couple of times, although not so much my coffee might spill. They ride more poorly than the MK4s in my opinion.

The lack of a legal requirement doesn't equate to "shouldn't" - it's just an absence of "should" (or at least of a legally mandated "should"). Some people might think there are other types of "should" that come into play here.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The lack of a legal requirement doesn't equate to "shouldn't" - it's just an absence of "should" (or at least of a legally mandated "should"). Some people might think there are other types of "should" that come into play here.

They can think that all they like, but LNER's policy does not involve staff asking people to wear them nor questioning why anyone is not. There is signage etc and that is it. Any member of staff so doing is acting in excess of their authority.

 

[AlbertBeale]

They can think that all they like, but LNER's policy does not involve staff asking people to wear them nor questioning why anyone is not. There is signage etc and that is it. Any member of staff so doing is acting in excess of their authority.

Agreed - I was just pointing out that an absence of enforceable "should" wasn't the same as saying that passengers "shouldn't"; train staff, I'd have thought, might put out announcements reminding people of the policy that exists, but beyond that they presumably aren't expected to do anything.

I realise that some people could be put off using public transport if there were a policy of enforced mask-wearing; conversely, there are others who are put off by a lack of such a policy. (There are plenty of the latter in London, given the crowded conditions on many buses and tubes.)

 

[Swanley 59]

I had occasion to stand on an Azuma northbound from Newcastle for the first time yesterday; I don't know if there were just more passengers or this was a legacy of disruption earlier in the day.

The ride felt no worse than an HST or Mk IV, but the number of bangs and crashes from the suspension made it sound worse.

 

[DannyMich2018]

I had two short rides on an 802 in the summer in Devon and ride felt pretty good- only thing that wasn't was those seats......

 

[Bigman]

Just come back off a Rail Trail trip to Perth, which involved Azumas both ways between York and Perth. Really comfortable and fast rides. They definitely struggle on diesel though.

 

[Britannia94]

With all issues I keep hearing of rough riding, seats being awful and the issues with the 800s makes me glad that there is still the option of the 225s between Leeds and London. I dread the day I have to travel, with the exception of a short journey from Wakefield to Leeds, on the 800s for a long distance journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

With all issues I keep hearing of rough riding, seats being awful and the issues with the 800s makes me glad that there is still the option of the 225s between Leeds and London. I dread the day I have to travel, with the exception of a short journey from Wakefield to Leeds, on the 800s for a long distance journey.

If you're tall you'll enjoy the legroom.

 

[Swanley 59]

I had two short rides on an 802 in the summer in Devon and ride felt pretty good- only thing that wasn't was those seats......

Are the seats in GWR 802 different from Azuma 800/801? (Whispers) I don't mind the Azuma seats at all.

With all issues I keep hearing of rough riding, seats being awful and the issues with the 800s makes me glad that there is still the option of the 225s between Leeds and London. I dread the day I have to travel, with the exception of a short journey from Wakefield to Leeds, on the 800s for a long distance journey.

The acceleration in electric mode is terrific; they are are routinely 2-3 minutes quicker on the Morpeth - Newcastle run compared with 225s they replaced. And, as Bletchleyite has already said, they do have decent legroom.

They are far from perfect, but neither were their predecessors.

 

[supervc-10]

I didn't find the seats too bad on a Hull Trains 802 from King's Cross to Doncaster. Although the seats on the TPE 185 I connected to Manchester on were definitely better.

Didn't think the ride was too bad either. Lots of clunks from under the floor though.

 

[superalbs]

I struggle to tell whether they're actually as rough riding as they seem, or if it's just because of the racket they make. They're definitely bad, but how bad?

 

[AM9]

It will be interesting to see how the 810s fare through the MillHill bumps at speed. Meridians manage it OK as do the 700s but the Electrostars made a mess of it with violent lateral swings.

 

[800001]

Just come back off a Rail Trail trip to Perth, which involved Azumas both ways between York and Perth. Really comfortable and fast rides. They definitely struggle on diesel though.

Where does it struggle on diesel? I've done multiple trips to Aberdeen and I'm Inverness on them and they arrive punctually or early at all stations.

 

[DanNCL]

Where does it struggle on diesel? I've done multiple trips to Aberdeen and I'm Inverness on them and they arrive punctually or early at all stations.

They arrive on time because the timings had be 'adjusted' for them when they replaced the HSTs. If they’d stayed on HST timings north of Edinburgh they would, especially north of Perth on the gradients of the Highland Main Line, lose time.

 

[northernbelle]

They arrive on time because the timings had be 'adjusted' for them when they replaced the HSTs. If they’d stayed on HST timings north of Edinburgh they would, especially north of Perth on the gradients of the Highland Main Line, lose time.

However, the gains made on the electric sections of the journey means the overall journey time is the broadly the same. Not to mention the benefits of not running over 400 miles each way on diesel under the wires.

 

[800001]

They arrive on time because the timings had be 'adjusted' for them when they replaced the HSTs. If they’d stayed on HST timings north of Edinburgh they would, especially north of Perth on the gradients of the Highland Main Line, lose time.

Hmmm departs Inverness and Aberdeen same time Hsts used to, arrive at Edinburgh same time as Hsts used to, can't see the adjusted times anywhere.
Lime speed is 100mph or less on those sections, and even with one Generator Unit not providing power still maintains the sectional times.
When we're the times adjusted? By how much we're the tiles adjusted?

However, the gains made on the electric sections of the journey means the overall journey time is the broadly the same. Not to mention the benefits of not running over 400 miles each way on diesel under the wires.

But the timings even on the electric sections have not been altered as yet. So you gain nothing on those section.
The big time table change to utilise there performance was due to be the 2022 timetable change which we all know has been postponed.

 

[DanNCL]

However, the gains made on the electric sections of the journey means the overall journey time is the broadly the same. Not to mention the benefits of not running over 400 miles each way on diesel under the wires.

Hmmm departs Inverness and Aberdeen same time Hsts used to, arrive at Edinburgh same time as Hsts used to, can't see the adjusted times anywhere.
Lime speed is 100mph or less on those sections, and even with one Generator Unit not providing power still maintains the sectional times.
When we're the times adjusted? By how much we're the tiles adjusted?


But the timings even on the electric sections have not been altered as yet. So you gain nothing on those section.
The big time table change to utilise there performance was due to be the 2022 timetable change which we all know has been postponed.

I'm not entirely certain of the exact differentials but they won't have been adjusted by anything more than a couple of minutes, certainly not significant enough to be noticed by the majority of passengers. On the Inverness route some of the time lost on diesel will be regained from running on electric Edinburgh - Stirling (which is timed as such). Improved dwell times with the 800s will also help - HSTs won't have managed any station dwell of less than 2 minutes (in many cases they needed 3 minutes), whereas the 800s can just about achieve a 1 minute dwell at some of the smaller stations. Given all of that the same end-end times for Edinburgh - Aberdeen/Inverness can be maintained, just in a small number of cases at intermediate stations arrivals are a minute or so later than what they were with the HSTs, and that minute removed from the dwell time at that station. The timings were adjusted in December 2019, when the last HSTs were withdrawn.

 

[Bigman]

It was tipping down up there on Monday and the train was 11 minutes late getting into Perth. The reason given was adverse weather conditions (slow progress on wet rails??). We were only 4 minutes late off Edinburgh and on time into York. Backs up various comments above.

 

[800001]

It was tipping down up there on Monday and the train was 11 minutes late getting into Perth. The reason given was adverse weather conditions (slow progress on wet rails??). We were only 4 minutes late off Edinburgh and on time into York. Backs up various comments above.

Monday was an emergency blanket speed restriction imposed by network rail Scotland on various segments of the Scottish network. In some places as low as 40mph for some considerable distance.

However I have noticed that acceleration in wet weather away from stations is extremely poor, with severe wheel slip.

 

[Irascible]

I had two short rides on an 802 in the summer in Devon and ride felt pretty good- only thing that wasn't was those seats......

Devon is generally low linespeed, only north of Exeter towards Taunton does it start picking up & even then it's still nowhere near high.

 

[O L Leigh]

I have noticed that acceleration in wet weather away from stations is extremely poor, with severe wheel slip.

They just need to improve the nut that holds the power/brake controller.