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Back in the day...

xotGD

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Ah Mr xot,
What fine reading squire. Tyneside Syphons especially, got me all nostalgic, dmu replacements, Gateshead shed, even Park Lane freight depot, all very relevant to me, as I have been known to have viewed trains of all kinds from those very locations and all are no more than a 10-30 minute walk from my house to this very day.
My friends and i used to wait at Tyne Yard for that mixed freight from Carlisle you mentioned. Stood in the middle of the bridge, peering over, looking Northwards, mostly 37s and 47s were in charge but like you say, Rats or McRats, (26s and 27s) were not uncommon, the odd Ped too. Thanks for reminding me of that turn.
Another one for the North East 37s, was one my Dad stumbled on, he was unable to sleep one night, so got ready and took his dog for a walk, about 1am he was stood peering into Tyne Yard from the road bridge, when a pair of Scottish Large logo 37s came in from the North on what he later got told was an Enterprise turn, as it pulled into the yard and stopped, he saw another set of lights coming into the yard from the south and park side by side. This also had a pair of Scottish 37s on and similar load. After about half an hour at most both would depart. Needless to say my Dad told me about it and at least once a week we'd both take the dog for a walk to see this turn. I didnt last for too long but I did cop a few of the 37s in charge on it. I have no idea where it came from or where to. A fair few years later, I was told there was 92s going into Tyne Yard on Enterprise trains in similar fashion, round about the same time, one North, one South. I was told these were Enterprises between Donnie and Millerhill. Id only recently got back into the hobby and only 92s I'd seen previous, were on test in Carlisle. So I made a habit of going yo see them. Maybe I'm blurred by nostalgia but I'd like to think, them Scottish 37s probably could've been, forerunners to that 92 turn.
Sorry if I hijacked the thread. Cracking reads there.
Seriously hardcore 1am spotting trips to TY!

I remember the 92-hauled service you mention. I used to look out for the 92 stabled at Doncaster whenever I passed through at the time. Mind, I think I've seen more 92s at Brush Loughborough than out on the railway!
 
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GRALISTAIR

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Seriously hardcore 1am spotting trips to TY!

I remember the 92-hauled service you mention. I used to look out for the 92 stabled at Doncaster whenever I passed through at the time. Mind, I think I've seen more 92s at Brush Loughborough than out on the railway!
I have done worse - overnights on Crewe and also Doncaster.

I have also done rush hours 6am-9am on Clapham Junction and Bethnal Green.
 

Peter Sarf

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I have done worse - overnights on Crewe and also Doncaster.

I have also done rush hours 6am-9am on Clapham Junction and Bethnal Green.
Yep Clapham Junction. Better take spare pens and paper plus a fast writing hand !.

Bethnal Green I have done and need to do again soon. Bit of a windswept/damp place though with just the top of the stairwell as protection !.
 

xotGD

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In the run up to Christmas there used to be a Dundee - King's Cross and a King's Cross - Dundee relief. We would await its arrival with anticipation, and all that would turn up would be a Gateshead Duff or a 46.

However, on one occasion when I wasn't at the Central a pair of 26s produced and one of my mates did them to Waverley. IIRC they were two of the low numbered examples that didn't work passenger too often.

This might not have been at Christmas, but it was a relief to Dundee.
 

CW2

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In the run up to Christmas there used to be a Dundee - King's Cross and a King's Cross - Dundee relief. We would await its arrival with anticipation, and all that would turn up would be a Gateshead Duff or a 46.

However, on one occasion when I wasn't at the Central a pair of 26s produced and one of my mates did them to Waverley. IIRC they were two of the low numbered examples that didn't work passenger too often.

This might not have been at Christmas, but it was a relief to Dundee.
Back in 1984 there was a summer-only weekdays 10:59 Kings Cross - Dundee that was booked to re-engine at Newcastle. I suspect that may be the train you were thinking of. It was booked for a Haymarket 47 to run light from Millerhill to Newcastle to then work through to Dundee. One of the traction controllers had been doing the job for so long that he could practically do it in his sleep, so he would amuse himself by constructing elaborate schemes as much as 24 hours in advance to artificially manufacture a loco shortage so that he could allocate something outrageous to his particular chosen train (and there was plenty of scope with the miners strike having thrown up plenty of spare freight locos). One day he sent a pair of 26/0s to Newcastle as you describe, but one of them failed on arrival. So the train was worked from Newcastle to Edinburgh by a single 26/0, where another one was attached to work forward to Dundee. I think the train was worked by 26/0s on a couple of occasions.

The same controller got a pair of steam-heat 26s through to Farington Jn on a return Edinburgh - Swansea Ruggex via Beattock and S&C, after ensuring it was Carlisle men re-manning at Carlisle who knew 26s. Sudden appearances of pairs of 26s or 27s on Highland Main Line services many years after they had all gone over to 47s was usually his handiwork too.

The balancing working of the 10:59 Kings Cross - Dundee was 09:28 Dundee - Kings Cross, which re-engined at Edinburgh. That was also good for all manner of strange locos from Dundee, including on one occasion a pair of 20s. On that day the previous Dundee - Edinburgh local (class 27) suffered a loco failure at Burntisland, so the 20-hauled Kings Cross train buffered up on rear and (once all the passengers had been transferred across) propelled the failure into Inverkeithing Loop. It was quite a combination, with a vacuum braked 27 and 4 vacuum braked coaches being propelled by a pair of (dual-braked) 20s hauling a rake of 9 air-braked Mk 2s.
 

sftfan1909

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I wasn't around back then, so how did you source information about things like loco changes and booked traction? Was it all available from one or two books or was there working out to do?
 

xotGD

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Back in 1984 there was a summer-only weekdays 10:59 Kings Cross - Dundee that was booked to re-engine at Newcastle. I suspect that may be the train you were thinking of. It was booked for a Haymarket 47 to run light from Millerhill to Newcastle to then work through to Dundee. One of the traction controllers had been doing the job for so long that he could practically do it in his sleep, so he would amuse himself by constructing elaborate schemes as much as 24 hours in advance to artificially manufacture a loco shortage so that he could allocate something outrageous to his particular chosen train (and there was plenty of scope with the miners strike having thrown up plenty of spare freight locos). One day he sent a pair of 26/0s to Newcastle as you describe, but one of them failed on arrival. So the train was worked from Newcastle to Edinburgh by a single 26/0, where another one was attached to work forward to Dundee. I think the train was worked by 26/0s on a couple of occasions.

The same controller got a pair of steam-heat 26s through to Farington Jn on a return Edinburgh - Swansea Ruggex via Beattock and S&C, after ensuring it was Carlisle men re-manning at Carlisle who knew 26s. Sudden appearances of pairs of 26s or 27s on Highland Main Line services many years after they had all gone over to 47s was usually his handiwork too.

The balancing working of the 10:59 Kings Cross - Dundee was 09:28 Dundee - Kings Cross, which re-engined at Edinburgh. That was also good for all manner of strange locos from Dundee, including on one occasion a pair of 20s. On that day the previous Dundee - Edinburgh local (class 27) suffered a loco failure at Burntisland, so the 20-hauled Kings Cross train buffered up on rear and (once all the passengers had been transferred across) propelled the failure into Inverkeithing Loop. It was quite a combination, with a vacuum braked 27 and 4 vacuum braked coaches being propelled by a pair of (dual-braked) 20s hauling a rake of 9 air-braked Mk 2s.
Thanks for the gen. Very interesting. Yes, it must be that summer 84 service my mate fell onto.

I wasn't around back then, so how did you source information about things like loco changes and booked traction? Was it all available from one or two books or was there working out to do?

There were books with loco diagrams and booked traction, but up to date gen was usually word of mouth, originating from someone who worked for BR. It was a good idea to be on friendly terms with the 'gen merchants'!
 

CW2

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I wasn't around back then, so how did you source information about things like loco changes and booked traction? Was it all available from one or two books or was there working out to do?
There were some diagrams published, but there was a well-developed bush telegraph whereby interesting workings - either allocations in advance or actual sightings - would be phoned ahead. Most major stations had a BR Network phone somewhere on the platform, so if you had a mate working in a TOPS office or Control you could often get gen that way. Some of the Train Crew Supervisors were very friendly as well. Above all there was a sense that gen was for sharing, rather than keeping a secret, so more people could benefit by the knowledge. Of course there were a few cranks working in positions of responsibility too.
 

NorthWestRover

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As one of the minor 40 Bashers back then, I'd occasionally dare to enter the Chester TOPS office to ask about a particular working. More often, such information was held by the inner circle, but they were good at sharing. When we were particularly lucky, they'd print out a number of workings for us.
 

xotGD

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I have just spent far too much of Boxing Day working out how many Duffs I have had for haulage. And the answer is 304.

Gosh!
 

Cowley

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I have just spent far too much of Boxing Day working out how many Duffs I have had for haulage. And the answer is 304.

Gosh!
Not bad for someone who didn’t particularly like them. ;)
 

xotGD

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Just goes to show how often there was nothing better to have or I had to go somewhere and the only option was the 47. Plus of course the many times I was expecting something better and was bowled out by a Duff!

If only I could claim 304 37s. Now that would be something.
 

CW2

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I too am not particularly a fan of the 47, but I've got all my moves on a database. Sadly I haven't got any way of eliminating duplicates where locos are renumbered, so I've had runs from 514 separate numbers, which probably equals 400+ locos. For 37s (on the same basis) it is 262, so probably about 175 individual locos. I was much happier with my 37 total than my 47 total, so you can see where my allegiance lies.
 

xotGD

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I too am not particularly a fan of the 47, but I've got all my moves on a database. Sadly I haven't got any way of eliminating duplicates where locos are renumbered, so I've had runs from 514 separate numbers, which probably equals 400+ locos. For 37s (on the same basis) it is 262, so probably about 175 individual locos. I was much happier with my 37 total than my 47 total, so you can see where my allegiance lies.
I spent a lot of time yesterday creating a spreadsheet with all of the renumberings in order to eliminate the duplicates. All of the gen is on the Class 47 website. There are a couple of Duffs that I've had carrying 3 different numbers.

I did the same for 37s previously. I found that task more rewarding!
 

CW2

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I spent a lot of time yesterday creating a spreadsheet with all of the renumberings in order to eliminate the duplicates. All of the gen is on the Class 47 website. There are a couple of Duffs that I've had carrying 3 different numbers.

I did the same for 37s previously. I found that task more rewarding!
[Groan] I can see an "interesting" several hours in the offing ...
 

xotGD

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[Groan] I can see an "interesting" several hours in the offing ...
I could send you the spreadsheets if you message me with your email address. Save you some faff.
 

CW2

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I could send you the spreadsheets if you message me with your email address. Save you some faff.
Other priorities at the moment. I'll get around to it eventually, if only to satisfy my curiosity.
 

Crewe Exile

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Other priorities at the moment. I'll get around to it eventually, if only to satisfy my curiosity.
I spent a lot of time yesterday creating a spreadsheet with all of the renumberings in order to eliminate the duplicates. All of the gen is on the Class 47 website. There are a couple of Duffs that I've had carrying 3 different numbers.

I did the same for 37s previously. I found that task more rewarding!
Having an electronic database of past haulages would be quite something- I used to have all my haulages listed on wee pads that I took out with me. Also had a good number of railway books, photos etc that were all binned in 1999 during a house move!. Had completely given up with railways at the time. Looking back, a bloody crazy thing to do!.
 

CW2

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Having an electronic database of past haulages would be quite something- I used to have all my haulages listed on wee pads that I took out with me. Also had a good number of railway books, photos etc that were all binned in 1999 during a house move!. Had completely given up with railways at the time. Looking back, a bloody crazy thing to do!.
Indeed. I started my own Access database many years ago, then split it into separate UK and Overseas databases. By creating my own bespoke queries I can sort out moves behind a specific loco or class of locos, or to / from a specific location, or mileage summaries per loco / class, or whatever other criterion I want. It was a massive task to get it up and running, but nowadays it is fairly easy just to keep the gen topped up after each trip. One unexpected benefit is that it reminds me of those trips I'd long forgotten about - an increasing problem with age ...
 

xotGD

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Having an electronic database of past haulages would be quite something- I used to have all my haulages listed on wee pads that I took out with me. Also had a good number of railway books, photos etc that were all binned in 1999 during a house move!. Had completely given up with railways at the time. Looking back, a bloody crazy thing to do!.
When I lost interest I threw away all of my old Platform 5 books and was going to throw away my 'moves book'. However, my wife persuaded me to keep it. Now, with a renewed interest, I'm very pleased that she did. Looking back at summer Saturdays in the 80s or what I did on a Freedom of Scotland is enjoyable. Plus it has allowed me to compile spreadsheets of what I've had and what I can still chase.
 

Crewe Exile

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When I lost interest I threw away all of my old Platform 5 books and was going to throw away my 'moves book'. However, my wife persuaded me to keep it. Now, with a renewed interest, I'm very pleased that she did. Looking back at summer Saturdays in the 80s or what I did on a Freedom of Scotland is enjoyable. Plus it has allowed me to compile spreadsheets of what I've had and what I can still chase.
I wish I’d kept the stuff now, hindsight eh?!. It’d be interesting to actually remember exact locos on moves done. My last bash was 1993!, been winding down though - the demise of the Cl 20s on regular enough workings pretty much ended it for me. It’s a great time come on here time to time to see detailed reports on the past - the railways really were interesting back in the day.
 

CW2

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Other priorities at the moment. I'll get around to it eventually, if only to satisfy my curiosity.
Well that's an hour of my life I'll never get back ...
My estimate of 400+ was spookily accurate. I've had precisely 400 individual recorded 47s for haulage, plus 6 locos which are now 57s, which I first had as 57s, never having them as a pure 47.
Of note, I had 47069 -> 47638 -> 47845 -> 57301, and also 47165 -> 47590 -> 47825 -> 57601 in every version.
I do remember clearing my ETH 47s when I dropped onto 47636 at Paddington. It had eluded me for years then was reallocated from Inverness to Old Oak Common back in the days of loco-hauled Padd - Oxford commuter services.
That's quite enough duff talk for one year.
 
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xotGD

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Well that's an hour of my life I'll never get back ...
My estimate of 400+ was spookily accurate. I've had precisely 400 individual recorded 47s for haulage, plus 6 locos which are now 57s, which I first had as 57s, never having them as a pure 47.
Of note, I had 47069 -> 47638 -> 47845 -> 57301, and also 47165 -> 47590 -> 47825 -> 57601 in every version.
I do remember clearing my ETH 47s when I dropped onto 47636 at Paddington. It had eluded me for years then was reallocated from Inverness to Old Oak COmmon back in the days of loco-hauled Padd - Oxford commuter services.
That's quite enough duff talk for one year.
I think you need to do 37s next...
 

CW2

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232 different 37s. That's a lot more than I expected. Of course there were far fewer multiple renumberings than afflicted the 47s. Even so, it's quite galling to discover that the big rare metals sector 37 that you had turns out to be an old Eastfield boilered loco sailing under a flag of convenience.
 

xotGD

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232 different 37s. That's a lot more than I expected. Of course there were far fewer multiple renumberings than afflicted the 47s. Even so, it's quite galling to discover that the big rare metals sector 37 that you had turns out to be an old Eastfield boilered loco sailing under a flag of convenience.
You've had 60 more than me - very impressive! I'm still chipping away, but there are not enough left in one piece for me to possibly catch up. I know what you mean about renumberings - 37305 was massive when it 'happened to turn up' on the Yarmouth - Newcastle in 1984, but a year later it was 407 working passenger on a daily basis. Oh, well.

I'm conscious that it has been a while since I last posted some photos from a trip from the last Millennium, so time to make amends:

South Wales 99 - Part 1: 37s

March 1999 and I has a work trip to Cardiff. I decided to capitalise on the trip, take a day's holiday and have some spotting and photting sessions at Cardiff and Newport.

First up, on the early evening of 4th March, 37417 waits to depart Cardiff Central on a commuter turn to Rhymney. The former 37269 is one of the 37/4s that is no longer with us, being cut up in 2013.

37417.jpg

It soon got too dark for photography, but I festered at the station for a while longer, watching freights trundling through. What dedication - I could have been enjoying a couple of pints of Brains Dark!

After a full Welsh breakfast at my B&B, the next morning I started off on the bridge at Canton. 37713 was first to put in an appearance, heading west with what I can only describe as 'wagons'. I had it for haulage in its former guise of 37052; it was cut up in 2006.

37713.jpg

A few minutes later, and 37888 header the other way with a loaded steel train. The former 37135 had spells in France and Spain before it was cut up in the latter country in 2007. It never troubled my red pen.

37888.jpg

I then headed down to the station, purchased a piece to Newport and caught the first bit of rubbish that turned up to take me there. Upon arrival I crossed the River Usk and positioned myself in the multistory car park. Several freights trundled past before 37892 appeared on the LPG Tanks. There are some good videos online of this working heading up the Lickey Incline - turn the volume up before viewing! Another Syphon that I didn't manage to have for haulage, the former 37149 was cut up in 2008.

37892.jpg

I decided to leave the car park at this point and head back across the river. There was something due that I wanted to phot back at the station, but you'll have to wait for Part 2 to see what that was...
 

Cowley

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I’m intrigued now. My mind is trying to scroll through an era when I wasn’t out on the rails at all, I did wonder if it was 33208 or maybe even a 50?
 

CW2

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Well I had to take a look at that YouTube clip of 37s climbing the Lickey on LPG trains. I had no idea the loads were that big. What was/is the maximum permitted load for a 37/7 or 37/8 up the Lickey?

As for the perils of renumbering, I was working in Scotland at the time there was a big influx of WR 37s prior to them going in for overhaul. Of course I didn't know which ones were going to become 37/4s, and therefore common on passenger in future, and which ones would become one of the /5 /6 /7 /8 or even /9 sub-classes. For example, former Cornish clay loco 37247 - which worked out of Queen Street complete with Cornish Lizard motif not long after transfer to Eastfield - went on to become 37671 when it emerged from works, so continued to be comparatively rare on passenger. On the other had the mahoosive 37292 (former 2000 hp uprated testbed loco) became 37425, which went on to work everything anywhere, and 37299 became 37426, which spent years pounding up and down the Marches on passenger.

I love the photos. More please!
 

xotGD

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South Wales 99 - Part 1: More 37s

So after stocking up on something for lunch (probably a Cornish pasty) I was back at Newport station. No, it wasn't 33208 or a 50 that was due, although I have encountered both on other trips to Cardiff and had the Crompton to Rhymney. What was due was 2B72, the 1130 Bristol TM - Cardiff, and on the front was 37414. Previously 37287, this is another 37/4 that has gone. It was withdrawn in 2000, and after a preservation attempt was cut up in 2009.

37414.jpg

Rather than take the Syphon back to Cardiff, I stayed at Newport for some more photography. Soon enough, 37513 headed east on ballast hoppers. The former 37056 was cut up in 2008, and I never had it for haulage.

37513.jpg

Next up was heavyweight 37708 heading west on tanks. Yet another 37 I missed out on, the former 37089 was cut up in 2008.

37708.jpg

The final 37 working of the day was a mixed freight double headed by 37887 and 37212. Shock, horror - I had 887 as 37120; 212 was a big xotGD machine when I was a lad which disappointingly I missed out on despite it working the Yarmouth - Newcastle one summer Saturday. 212 wasn't in service for very much longer, being stored the next month, and had its encounter with the cutter's torch in 2004 while 887 lasted 4 years longer.

37887 37212.jpg

So it was then back to Cardiff, another night in the B&B and another full breakfast. I was heading home, but not before a short session at Newport which rewarded me with a pair of heavyweights - 37897 and 37888 heading what looked like the same steel train that 888 had worked on its own the previous day. Yet another 37 I failed to get four haulage (I have had over half - honest!), 897 was previously 37155. Another loco to be cut up in 2008 - the scrap yards were busy that year!

37897 37888.jpg

In Part 3 I will prove that I didn't just take photos of 37s. Four different classes will feature, but what will they be...?
 

Cowley

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Great photos. Who owned the maroon stock behind 414 then? :)
 

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