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Barming & Maidstone East

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MarlowDonkey

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I was trying to work out what this story in the Mail was going on about.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5009131/Commuter-faces-court-getting-wrong-train.html

A commuter is facing being taken to court or coughing up £1,000 after accidentally catching the wrong train, despite paying nearly £4,000-a-year for a season ticket.

David Dixon, 34, was told he would have to buy an extra ticket and pay a fine after he mistakenly took a direct service to his home in Barming, Kent, rather than changing trains.

Mr Dixon pays £3,700 for an annual season ticket but has to make one change because there are no direct trains at the times he travels.

One evening last month he took a later service between Barming, Kent, and Elephant and Castle in south London, and accidentally took a direct route.

David realised as the train pulled away he was on the wrong service and was stopped by a ticket inspector on the train who told him he needed to pay a fine.

He was told that as the layout of Maistone East means passengers have to leave the station to get onto the platform, he was told he would have to pay for an extra single ticket from Maidstone East and Barming.

Presumably the issue was that because Maidstone East is the other side of Barming to London, you aren't allowed to double back with a London to Barming ticket. A Maidstone East season would presumably have solved his problem. Whether or not you have to leave the station at Maidstone to change direction is presumably totally irrelevant.
 
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yorksrob

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Sounds as though he overslept and had to catch the train back from Maidstone East where you have to exit the station to get from the down side to the up side.

Seems very harsh IMO. There can't be a commuter in the land who hasn't accidentally overslept past their stop.
 

Busaholic

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Here's a fantasy of mine: case goes to court and is thrown out by the magistrates with the prosecution side being told not to waste the court's time, and costs awarded against the TOC. Until this sort of thing happens, and is backed up at a higher level, this sort of nonsense will be perpetuated.
 

Kite159

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IIRC there are two services in the evening which goes from Blackfriars towards Ashford via Maidstone, the 1st calls at all stations on the line, the 2nd is more of a semi-fast and skips several of the smaller stations on route.

Maybe he caught the 1904 Blackfriars - Ashford instead of his usual 17:47 Blackfriars - Ashford and forgot to change on route to the service from Victoria a few minutes behind. It is possible to get to Barming quicker going via Maidstone, however it involves a very tight +2.

Overtravelled on his season ticket, failed the attitude test with the RPI and issued with the penalty fare.
 

furlong

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Guessing the ticket might be Elephant and Castle Not Via London (£3,668) which doesn't appear to be valid via Maidstone East. (An easement does allow "Plus High Speed" via Maidstone East.)

While an Authorised Collector has discretion as to whether or not to charge a Penalty Fare, if one is issued, there seems to be no discretion when it comes to determining the amount. £20 might just be correct if the commuter refused to state where he began his journey and the last stop of the train he caught wasn't too far away. But if he stated he had travelled from Elephant & Castle or the last stop of the train he took was Bromley South, then I'd think an appeal on the grounds that it was issued unlawfully because the amount was calculated incorrectly ought to be upheld.
 
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So, I think the news item is actually about a penalty fare being issued -- not a £1000 fine. It's possible the TOC could pursue this route if the PF is not paid but it seems to me highly unlikely. And there's still the PF appeal process to go through yet.
 

yorkie

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... failed the attitude test with the RPI ...
Is there evidence of this? You don't need to fail the attitude test to incur the wrath of some of them!

So, I think the news item is actually about a penalty fare being issued -- not a £1000 fine. It's possible the TOC could pursue this route if the PF is not paid but it seems to me highly unlikely. And there's still the PF appeal process to go through yet.
I'm not convinced that anyone who fails/refuses to pay a Penalty Fare is simply let off under these circumstances. The likes of GTR and Southeastern are quite ruthlessly anti-customer in situations such as this.
 

RJ

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The grammar in that article is pretty shocking - the way the sentences read don't make much sense.

From what I can piece together, he held an Elephant and Castle to Barming season ticket and by "direct route", they mean "fast train" that misses out stops, including Barming. If that's correct then he wasn't valid to go via Maidstone East, which he appears to be aware of. He justifies overtravelling by intimating that the TOC allows it when the Barmimg stop is cancelled, which didn't appear to be the case on this occasion.

If he wants the option of going home from or via Maidstone then the extra £88 a year for the appropriate ticket would be a better option. Whilst I am normally pro-customer, it is my belief that where tickets are concerned, you should get what you pay for and not expect more without paying or seeking permission first.
 
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furlong

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Well it all sounds like another heavy-handed application of the rules against a commuter who made a simple mistake, but ironically calculating both fares incorrectly. The correct Penalty Fare should surely have been higher based on the complete journey - so an appeal should succeed on those grounds alone (but they might then, rightly or wrongly, attempt to claim the full single fare instead, which would still be a small saving) and the ticket sold at Maidstone East for his journey back should have had the Gold Card discount applied.
 

furlong

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it is my belief that where tickets are concerned, you should get what you pay for and not expect more without paying or seeking permission first.

But they should also be required to issue with every season ticket a complete and correct map showing all the routes upon which it is valid. When nationalrail shows journeys on this particular route by default, how is the commuter otherwise supposed to know that they aren't all valid with his season ticket? We know here how to compare the fares that site shows to check if the journey is valid with a season ticket. Why doesn't the National Rail app let you input your season ticket, then have an option to only show you journeys valid with it? If it showed additional journeys it could tell you what additional fare was due and which ticket you needed to buy.
 

rosschap

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But they should also be required to issue with every season ticket a complete and correct map showing all the routes upon which it is valid. When nationalrail shows journeys on this particular route by default, how is the commuter otherwise supposed to know that they aren't all valid with his season ticket? We know here how to compare the fares that site shows to check if the journey is valid with a season ticket. Why doesn't the National Rail app let you input your season ticket, then have an option to only show you journeys valid with it? If it showed additional journeys it could tell you what additional fare was due and which ticket you needed to buy.

You raise an interesting point, I commute from Barming occasionally and have overslept, when met by RPIs once at Maidstone East I was let off. Nowadays I purchase seasons from Maidstone East anyway, they are only a few pounds more per week and it means I can get a semi-fast train if the stopping train is cancelled. Bad luck on Mr Dixon's part that on that day there were RPIs as they aren't down there that often.

If you input his journey into NRE you will see that sometimes it does recommend going to Maidstone East, then going back on yourself, however it shows this as separate tickets (Elephant - Maidstone, Maidstone to Barming), this seemed to confuse him since it's not possible to look up which specific services one's season ticket is valid on.

Penalty fare will probably be overturned to avoid further press in the Kent Messenger. Let's look at the positives, at least the passenger now knows that his ticket doesn't cover this. The article was written poorly which is all too common for the KM...
 
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