• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Barrow-in-Furness to Euston Sleepers c1987-1990

Status
Not open for further replies.

concerned1

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2012
Messages
31
Intestested in the consists of these? Last ran in 1990. Were these Mk1 Sleeper cars? I’m guessing all the current routes would have been running back then along with a few more. Were they electric hauled from Lancaster / Preston or diesel hauled all the way?

Combined with anything else?

What was the stopping pattern? Did they include any intemriswriry steps between Barrow and the WCML or include any on the WCML?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

hexagon789

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Sep 2016
Messages
15,713
Location
Glasgow
Intestested in the consists of these? Last ran in 1990. Were these Mk1 Sleeper cars? I’m guessing all the current routes would have been running back then along with a few more. Were they electric hauled from Lancaster / Preston or diesel hauled all the way?

Combined with anything else?

What was the stopping pattern? Did they include any intemriswriry steps between Barrow and the WCML or include any on the WCML?
The last Mk1 sleepers were used on the Scottish internals in 1983.

The formation in 1987 is given in the marshalling books as:

BFK*
3 TSO*
BSO*
SLE^
SLEP^

*Mk2 air-con
^Mk3

It was unidirectional, running southbound from Barrow only dep. 2149.

The service joined with sleepers from Liverpool and Manchester and ran via Birmingham.

Called all major stops - Lancaster, Preston, Wigan, Warrington, Crewe, Stafford, Nuneaton (Mondays Only), Rugby, Northampton, Milton Keynes Cen., Euston (arr. 0448)

(Timings from May 1987 GBTT)
 

Shaw S Hunter

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2016
Messages
2,912
Location
Sunny South Lancs
I rode this service in April 1990 so just weeks before the end having reached Barrow courtesy of a 142. By now the departure was at 2200 and haulage was a 47/4 through to Preston where a 86 took over. I was in the seats as I alighted at Crewe to catch an overnight train to Scotland. Happy days when overnight trains were just another train during an All-Line jaunt...
 

Iskra

Established Member
Joined
11 Jun 2014
Messages
7,785
Location
West Riding
I rode this service in April 1990 so just weeks before the end having reached Barrow courtesy of a 142. By now the departure was at 2200 and haulage was a 47/4 through to Preston where a 86 took over. I was in the seats as I alighted at Crewe to catch an overnight train to Scotland. Happy days when overnight trains were just another train during an All-Line jaunt...
That sounds a very interesting adventure :)
 

Shaw S Hunter

Established Member
Joined
21 Apr 2016
Messages
2,912
Location
Sunny South Lancs
That sounds a very interesting adventure :)
Sadly while many of my All-Lines were definitely interesting this one was almost entirely thrashing up and down main lines behind very predictable traction. Arguably the most exotic moves were all units such as the 142 which I mentioned. Mind you I did finish the week with the Thursday only turn for 89001 to York.
 

Cheshire Scot

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
1,331
Location
North East Cheshire
Perhaps worth mentioning in earlier years there were both north and southbound Barrow sleepers and they included a single Preston sleeping car in each direction - and were independent of the Liverpool and Manchester sleepers.

I travelled on the up train in1980 joining at Crewe for departure at I think 23.59 and arriving in Euston at 02.27 my shortest ever sleeping car trip (in journey time although not in mileage terms) albeit I sensibly remained in bed until a much more civilised hour.
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,686
Perhaps worth mentioning in earlier years there were both north and southbound Barrow sleepers and they included a single Preston sleeping car in each direction - and were independent of the Liverpool and Manchester sleepers.

I travelled on the up train in1980 joining at Crewe for departure at I think 23.59 and arriving in Euston at 02.27 my shortest ever sleeping car trip (in journey time although not in mileage terms) albeit I sensibly remained in bed until a much more civilised hour.
Indeed. I can't remember what time the southbound departure was, but in summer '68, I think the northbound departure was 23.45 or some such ex-Euston. I caught it one night when on an all line rover. I think it arrived in Barrow around 05.xx.

Hmmm. I'm wondering now if I've got that departure time a bit too late.

It was this train which, because if dropped a sleeping car (or possibly two) at Preston, meant that the passengers in those carriages were actually the last ever to be hauled* by a standard-gauge steam loco in normal BR service. This was in the pre-dawn hours of Sunday, August 4, 1968.

* Hauled = taken off the rear of the train and shunted into a bay platform (I think it was) at Preston. I don't know if any bashers joined that shunt. The majority had gone on the previous evening's 20.50? to Blackpool or 21.25? to Liverpool Exchange. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact departure times.)
 

Gloster

Established Member
Joined
4 Sep 2020
Messages
8,289
Location
Up the creek
Indeed. I can't remember what time the southbound departure was, but in summer '68, I think the northbound departure was 23.45 or some such ex-Euston. I caught it one night when on an all line rover. I think it arrived in Barrow around 05.xx.

In 1967-1968 it was:

Euston 23.55-Barrow 05.40. North of Preston it called Lancaster, Carnforth, Grange, Ulverston, Dalton and Roose (Grange was set down only.) It ran daily, but on Saturday night/Sunday morning it skipped Roose.

Barrow 20.50-Euston 02.40. Called Dalton, Ulverston, Cark & Cartmel (not Sunday evening), Grange, Arnside, Carnforth and Lancaster. It ran daily, but it is possible that the southbound train did not convey a sleeper on Saturday.

It included a sleeper to and from Preston.
 

concerned1

Member
Joined
18 Mar 2012
Messages
31
Fascinating insight people, I had no idea there were so many sleepers so recently ago
 

70014IronDuke

Established Member
Joined
13 Jun 2015
Messages
3,686
Fascinating insight people, I had no idea there were so many sleepers so recently ago
Thanks to @Gloster. Perhaps he will be able to list the departures on a typical night from Euston in 68, I think they started around 21.00 with an Inverness or Perth, then there were two (or maybe three?) to Glasgow, then Barrow, followed by a Manchester and a Liverpool, the last two both just after midnight, IIRC. There was possibly a Holyhead early on too.

Maybe I've misremembered, but t felt like a procession. Put it this way (and I may have been just lucky) but on the night of Aug 3/4 I left Lostock Hall shed at around midnight with another guy and walked to Preston station.

I needed to get to Euston pdq, but I didn't bother to look up the sleeper departures in my LMR timetable, I was confident something would come along. I guess we arrived at the station around 01.30, and as I walked down the steps of the overbridge a sleeper (probably ex-Glasgow) rolled in (behind a Cl 50, but I can't remember). I boarded a Mk 1 SK, found an empty compartment, and woke up c 06.00 in Euston, watching LCGB folk (or some such) boarding a special back up to Lancashire for later steam haulage.

I walked off down Euston Rd to see St Pancras bathed in the early morning sunshine.
 

Springs Branch

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2013
Messages
1,418
Location
Where my keyboard has no £ key
Thanks to @Gloster. Perhaps he will be able to list the departures on a typical night from Euston in 68, I think they started around 21.00 with an Inverness or Perth, then there were two (or maybe three?) to Glasgow, then Barrow, followed by a Manchester and a Liverpool, the last two both just after midnight, IIRC. There was possibly a Holyhead early on too.

Maybe I've misremembered, but t felt like a procession.
Here's a link to a historic thread on this topic with the Euston departures from the 1971/72 timetable. Presumably quite similar to 1968, but with some departure & running times adjusted for northern WCML electrification preparations in 71/72.

There was also a 23:20 Birmingham-Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleeper which inserted itself into the northward procession at Stafford between the 22:00 Euston-Glasgow and the 22:15 Euston Glasgow Sleeper. On Friday nights from July to September, the West Midlands Sleeper ran as two trains: 23:20 BHM-Glasgow and 23:30 BHM-Edinburgh (both conveying Sleeping cars)

[EDIT] The 21:00 Euston-Glasgow via the Midland & S&C route shown in the 1971 list ran from St Pancras in 1968, as two separate trains (both with sleepers) - 21:15 St Pancras-Edinburgh and 21:30 St Pancras-Glasgow C.
 
Last edited:

MichaelAMW

Member
Joined
18 Jun 2010
Messages
1,011
To return to the Barrow sleepers, here's a bit I wrote in a 2018 thread (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/sleepers-at-manchester.169401/page-2#post-3633086, "Sleepers at Manchester?"), responding to a comment about the 1984/5 timetable:

"According to my timetable archive, a couple of years earlier there was a separate Barrow - Euston sleeper, 2045 arriving 0221, and a couple of years later a 2149 from Barrow that was a portion for the Liverpool/Manchester/Barrow sleeper that combined at Stafford. The Barrow portion was there for over an hour. Since there was no down sleeper to Barrow, only to Liverpool and Manchester at 2350, the sleeper portion for Barrow was conveyed empty to Preston at the front of the 1630 Euston to Blackpool. At Preston, the electric loco shunted the single sleeper off the train - the loco needed to be changed for a diesel - and onto the north of the Edinburgh portion of the 1544 Edinburgh/1550 Glasgow to Manchester Victoria. (Although it combined at Carstairs only the Glasgow bit actually went to Manchester.) That lot then formed the 1940 Preston to Barrow and then the 2149 to Stafford. Only the sleeping car was attached to the Man/Liv sleeper at Stafford; I don't know for sure what the seating coaches did but there is a very suspicious looking 0638 Stafford - Preston, which appears to have 100mph timings, where I suspect it was attached to the 1025 Manchester Victoria to Glasgow and Edinburgh, i.e what might have been a Liverpool portion was actually a Preston portion - and the cycle repeats."

If you check the link, I left a few timetable scans.
 

Cheshire Scot

Established Member
Joined
24 Jul 2020
Messages
1,331
Location
North East Cheshire
There was also a 23:20 Birmingham-Glasgow/Edinburgh Sleeper which inserted itself into the northward procession at Stafford between the 22:00 Euston-Glasgow and the 22:15 Euston Glasgow Sleeper. On Friday nights from July to September, the West Midlands Sleeper ran as two trains: 23:20 BHM-Glasgow and 23:30 BHM-Edinburgh (both conveying Sleeping cars)
In '68 there was also the 00.55 Liverpool / 01.00 Manchester to Glasgow - sleepers and seats in both portions also a seated only portion Manchester to Edinburgh (23.55/23.45 southbound).
The Liverpool section ran from Lime St although daytime trains were from Exchange whilst the Manchester portion was from Exchange.
 

Alfie1014

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2012
Messages
1,118
Location
Essex
15F2E5EE-0901-409E-A32B-06E099199279.jpeg My photo of 47538 passing Silverdale with the down service containing the sleeper car (third in consist) in June 1988 not sure at this point whether this service was still passenger or ECS?
 

Whistler40145

Established Member
Joined
30 Apr 2010
Messages
5,911
Location
Lancashire
I did the Sleeper after the Colwich crash, did the Barrow-in-Furness portion,which combined with the Liverpool and Manchester portions at Stafford, we were dragged by a 47 to Nuneaton
 

ainsworth74

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Global Moderator
Joined
16 Nov 2009
Messages
27,536
Location
Redcar
Fascinating insight people, I had no idea there were so many sleepers so recently ago
You may find this thread of interest for discussion around the final run-down of sleeper services into their present day shape:

 

Hadrian

Member
Joined
28 Jan 2019
Messages
45
Location
Bardon Mill
From a slightly different period: In 1971 to 1973 I travelled fairly frequently back to Crewe from Euston on the then 2345 Barrow sleeper after an evening in the London area. I could usually rely on getting a compartment to myself because the demand for seating was quite low except on Fridays. It was much more peaceful than the other evening/night trains.

The Barrow was non stop from Euston to Crewe and often arrived at Crewe 10-15 minutes earlier that timetabled (variously about 0211 to 0216).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top