Something I learned at Railtex on Tuesday, talking to the Vivarail guys on their stand, is that their fast charging system consists of two charging rails in the four foot, which are basically lengths of normal conductor rail (third rail). The rails are earthed i.e. 'dead' when no trains are around. They are only energised once a train is standing on top of them (covering them), and has been safely recognised by the fast charging system as being the correct train in the correct place, and ready to receive charge. And this is probably the only way of convincing the ORR to let you lay down 'new' third rail.
Which is what I said in my original post - I spent some time with Viva a few years ago. But so far, even with a train on top, the ORR are still concerned about the risk of somebody slipping under the train from either side. I imagine that they’re also wondering how the system will take varying train lengths into account.
Anyone slipping under the train is probably more likely to be crushed as it starts moving, regardless of how it is powered, but if they are really worried maybe they could put a PIR detector either side to shut off the system if someone is detected. The train length probably isn't an issue for Vivarail now, as I don't think any of theirs run in multiple, but it could easily be addressed by an independent system in the stopping place of the power collector of each of the coupled units.
What on earth are you talking about.
From what has been described, you can't use any third rail system in a station because people are apparently so brain dead they'll find a way to kill themselves on it, no matter how safe it is. If that's the case, just put signs up warning passengers of the danger so then it's their responsibility to stay safe, and then let natural selection run it's course.
We only have to see the railway related court cases over the years to see which way the courts favour trespassers and people not taking personal responsibility.
We seem to be forgetting that Bidston-Wrexham is already 3rd rail at one end. The layover siding to the east of Bidston, on the alignment of the old triangle curve, is still 3rd rail fitted, and is right next to the Bidston North Junction substation for full voltage input. If the trains lay over there for 20 minutes or so, whenever they return every couple of hours, is that sufficient?
It's slightly impractical and wastes time, more sensible if the 777 units go a recharge going from Bidston through the Liverpool loop and returning to Bidston. If there's such a layover Birkenhead North station bay platform would be better suited.
It’s not only passengers. Staff need comprehensive training too. For TfL this isn’t a problem. But in regions where third rail doesn’t exist, the logic goes that new third rail (even just interlocked fast charging) is introducing an entirely new hazard for rail staff at ground level.
The current layovers on Wrexham-Bidston are very short - I'm not even sure they have time to go into the siding. In fact last time I looked at the public timetable, the padding meant that the train was scheduled to arrive at Wrexham Central after it had departed! So it would need a timetable re-cast and at least one extra train in service to charge in the siding.
The 1957-65 (yes) battery train that ran from Aberdeen to Ballater was 43 miles each way. Initially charged at both ends, later the only charge point was in Aberdeen station. 3 round trips per day.
Apples to oranges when one train is battery only and the other train is battery and third rail.
Battery technology has improved in power density/kg over lead acid cells by a factor of four but real improvement has been the speed with which you can recharge the batteries vs lead acid which is around 8 times improvement. The latter is really helpful with regen as its quite possible to harvest all the energy produced during braking, less losses in the inverters, unlike a straight regenerative EMU which really needs another train nearby to maximise energy saving. The Ballater trains used fuel heaters though and only had a few 60w bulbs for saloon lighting unlike todays trains which have much bigger hotel loads particularly air con and electric heating. Then you need to factor in sufficient margin for safety reason and before you know it the overall storage is a lot higher for the same duty. So to some extents the benefits gained have been lost to the above requirements.
Not sure they need 80mph capability on the Greenford Loop although a 230 would be ideal for it and someone needs to get a working BEMU service going as we are falling behind many other overseas railways in decarbonising services despite plenty of good rolling stock solutions being available.
Unfortunately this is a journalistic error. The Class 230 definitely can't do 80mph as the motors won't allow it, let alone the ride comfort! I think they have confused this with 80 mile range, in their excitement. But it is true that Vivarail are unveiling a battery-only Class 230 at COP26. It is the original prototype 3-car unit 230001, completely upgraded to the new generation of Hoppecke batteries.
: https://www.railway-technology.com/news/network-rail-vivarail-train/Journalists never let the truth get in the way of a good story lolUnfortunately this is a journalistic error. The Class 230 definitely can't do 80mph as the motors won't allow it, let alone the ride comfort! I think they have confused this with 80 mile range, in their excitement. But it is true that Vivarail are unveiling a battery-only Class 230 at COP26. It is the original prototype 3-car unit 230001, completely upgraded to the new generation of Hoppecke batteries.
Greenford is an open competition, not necessarily Vivarail's for the taking!
Here is a slightly more reliable press article, although this time a 128.74km range is quoted which is 80 miles so why didn't they just say 80 miles?!
The TFW 230's have a max speed of 60mph, it's due to the bogies and braking capabilities I was told.
Yup. People have yet to realise that nursing adults like babies will only end up in them needing more and more nursing. It will only end in more and more incidents as people get more and more dependant and incapable of thinking for themselves.
They don,'t exist in the UK yet do they?
