Blue Pullman Returns

[norbitonflyer]

Very clever how they’ve changed the line of the white band above the cab window to emulate the look of the original. Little things that make a big difference

I do like it, although I would have liked a little bit of black paint on that white front to emulate the shape of the original windscreens. A white bar downthe middle might have been going too far though!

 

[Jamesrob637]

That ain’t going anywhere without a yellow front. The lights are non-compliant with the current standards, so unless they are modified....

You were saying...?!

 

[43096]

You were saying...?!

They were modified! So my point stands.

 

[fgwrich]

They were modified! So my point stands.

Indeed. Modified, not replaced. They have kept the original MML installed light cluster, but replaced the lighting set-up behind it (and filled in the middle tail light tube). The give away is the squared off edges vs oval edges of the clusters fitted to the refurbished / MTU power cars.

 

[DB]

Indeed. Modified, not replaced. They have kept the original MML installed light cluster, but replaced the lighting set-up behind it (and filled in the middle tail light tube). The give away is the squared off edges vs oval edges of the clusters fitted to the refurbished / MTU power cars.

How do you know these aren't completely new light clusters?

Even if they have reused the housing, the actual lamps are all new so it's effectively a complete replacement.

 

[fgwrich]

How do you know these aren't completely new light clusters?

Even if they have reused the housing, the actual lamps are all new so it's effectively a complete replacement.

By looking very closely at the clusters. The MML Style had the middle tube squared off at the top and bottom of the middle light, the newer design (on the MTUs) are oval and both tubes are slightly larger to take advantage of the extra space they have. As I said in my post, they've removed / blanked off the middle tail lights and replaced the lighting set up behind with new brighter Bi-Directional LED / Halogen Lamps.

I'd certainly be interested to see what they've done in the TGF though. I see they've blanked off one of the larger saloon windows before the guards office, so they've obviously put something behind that.

 

[DB]

By looking very closely at the clusters. The MML Style had the middle tube squared off at the top and bottom of the middle light, the newer design (on the MTUs) are oval and both tubes are slightly larger to take advantage of the extra space they have. As I said in my post, they've removed / blanked off the middle tail lights and replaced the lighting set up behind with new brighter Bi-Directional LED / Halogen Lamps.

How do you know that they haven't simply copied the aperture shape from the old clusters?

Even if they have reused the housing, the actual lamps are new and reduced to two rather than three pairs of lenses.

 

[43096]

I'd certainly be interested to see what they've done in the TGF though. I see they've blanked off one of the larger saloon windows before the guards office, so they've obviously put something behind that.

From what I’ve heard, there’s a cocktail bar been installed.

 

[fgwrich]

How do you know that they haven't simply copied the aperture shape from the old clusters?

Even if they have reused the housing, the actual lamps are new and reduced to two rather than three pairs of lenses.

Not that it really matters much but I’ve had it confirmed to me that it is as above, original cluster modified with new lights behind.

From what I’ve heard, there’s a cocktail bar been installed.

That sounds very plausible as it seems Mr H rather like’s his on-board cocktail bars. I would certainly be interested to see the new layout - quite a change from a humble old TGS!

 

[Jamesrob637]

From what I’ve heard, there’s a cocktail bar been installed.

Will Phil Oakey be on board at Sheffield and employing ladies to work as waitresses in the cocktail bar?

Or won't he want them?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Will Phil Oakey be on board at Sheffield and employing ladies to work as waitresses in the cocktail bar?

Or won't he want them?

Oh dear!.....I really think it's time to collect your coat

 

[43096]

Will Phil Oakey be on board at Sheffield and employing ladies to work as waitresses in the cocktail bar?

Or won't he want them?

I nearly posted something similar, but thought I’d leave it and see if anyone else would Dare.

 

[kermit]

Will Phil Oakey be on board at Sheffield and employing ladies to work as waitresses in the cocktail bar?

Or won't he want them?

I always thought it was the waitress who was no longer as keen on Mr Oakey? (Is there a prize for plunging headlong off topic?)

 

[Cowley]

(Is there a prize for plunging headlong off topic?)

No!

 

[Energy]

I'm interested how long the service will last, it seems to be like the special services run by steam trains but without the novelty of a steam train and instead being a HST, which still run in regular service in the west and Scotland. This makes me wonder how long it will be profitable, the prices for tickets are lower than I expected but from £155 each and £310 for the pullman class they are not cheap. It does appeal to the rail enthusiast but there are only so many.

 

[30907]

Don't think it's aimed at enthusiasts.

 

[DB]

Don't think it's aimed at enthusiasts.

Indeed - seems more aimed at the same market as the British Pullman - affluent middle aged and retired.

 

[37424]

Indeed - seems more aimed at the same market as the British Pullman - affluent middle aged and retired.

A similar market to the Statesman I would imagine, and you could argue that tarted up Mk3 acting as a Pullman train are potentially better quality than tarted up Mk2's acting up as Pullman, It should be easier to path on the High speed routes rather than a Duff with a heavy load. I guess they may run this concept for a few years then repaint and market it as a different Pullman Train depending how successful it is, but it does actually look very good on the outside and sort fits the original Blue Pullman set mantra if they aren't really much like the original train.

 

[Killingworth]

Given the many thousands of frustrated passengers for expensive cruises I'm sure there'll be plenty of takers for these special trains. Not the same, of course, but a special day trip can easily be afforded without taking as much time. Even this year many have been fully booked. They're filled by people who like trains and travel and the fares can compare reasonably well with full first class fares if a similar journey were possible - and that's without the food and service.

 

[fgwrich]

A similar market to the Statesman I would imagine, and you could argue that tarted up Mk3 acting as a Pullman train are potentially better quality than tarted up Mk2's acting up as Pullman.

Have to agree with that, what's also worth remembering is that the GWR First Class interior was still relatively new when the HST's were being binned off, whereas The Statesman set is mostly formed of Mk2 FO's (and a large number of ex Riviera / Ex Virgin examples) which will have been re-moquetted and tarted up, but will never be as good as a proper Pullman vehicle (or that operated by WCRC / Northern Belle). In this respect the HST is a far better and smoother riding vehicle.

 

[Train Boy]

The first tour, The Midland Pullman, has been postponed to Saturday 12th December (now displayed on website)

 

[32475]

I do like it, although I would have liked a little bit of black paint on that white front to emulate the shape of the original windscreens. A white bar downthe middle might have been going too far though!

Regarding the cab design, the original had a definite vertical emphasis with the sharp central window bar sweeping down into a nose. It looked like it had a bit of a sad face with puffed out cheeks and actually rather reminiscent of Rev. W. Awdry's Fat Controller. By contrast, the HST front has a definite emphasis on the horizontal with its rectangular windscreen and prominent chisel edged nose, having an altogether more business like and cutting edge appearance.
Unless the HST fronts were to have re-moulded attachments I don't think they will ever look like the Met-Camm originals, no matter how much the paint work is played around with. I'm quite sure that the powers that be at LSL must have really scratched their heads over the cab design issue and as a re-creation, the design was always going to be a bit of a compromise.

 

[37424]

Regarding the cab design, the original had a definite vertical emphasis with the sharp central window bar sweeping down into a nose. It looked like it had a bit of a sad face with puffed out cheeks and actually rather reminiscent of Rev. W. Awdry's Fat Controller. By contrast, the HST front has a definite emphasis on the horizontal with its rectangular windscreen and prominent chisel edged nose, having an altogether more business like and cutting edge appearance.
Unless the HST fronts were to have re-moulded attachments I don't think they will ever look like the Met-Camm originals, no matter how much the paint work is played around with. I'm quite sure that the powers that be at LSL must have really scratched their heads over the cab design issue and as a re-creation, the design was always going to be a bit of a compromise.

A HST is nothing like the original train and there is no real point in trying to make it as such, its just a HST with a paint job and modified lighting to avoid a yellow front.

I would have chosen the later Blue Pullman livery which was of course similar to the prototype HST livery, but I guess that might have looked a bit too modern for the clientele they are after.

 

[DarloRich]

WARNING Paint wibble - the finish on that livery looks superb.

 

[2392]

WARNING Paint wibble - the finish on that livery looks superb.

You forget Darlo' the livery is the most important part of the whole "preservation" process. It doesn't matter that each vehicle in the formation has 7 square wheels and only 1 round one.....! Having said that I quite agree with you, to a degree you can see the lineage/parentage between the two trains.

 

[30907]

I would have chosen the later Blue Pullman livery which was of course similar to the prototype HST livery, but I guess that might have looked a bit too modern for the clientele they are after.

Or would look remarkably like the prototype HST, which would lose the USP.

 

[37424]

Or would look remarkably like the prototype HST, which would lose the USP.

Well I doubt most of the market they are aimed at would know much about the prototype HST and I think it would look good but yes the livery they have chosen does look more Pullman.

 

[DB]

Have any photos of the interior appeared yet? The original Blue Pullmans had blue seat covers - wonder whether these are the same?

 

[fgwrich]

Have any photos of the interior appeared yet? The original Blue Pullmans had blue seat covers - wonder whether these are the same?

I rather suspect that we wont be seeing any interior photos until either A: LSL run the initial Blue Pullman launch in December or B, LSL invite certain members of the railway press along for a preview. Though I strongly suspect it will be the former.

 

[Envoy]

Probably the best livery ever as far as I am concerned.