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Brexit matters

najaB

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Can you deny England supporters wave the English flag whereas they used to wave the Union flag. Is it because Scottish and Welsh nationalism is pushed at the English more than ever?
Or perhaps, the increase in England supporters flying English flags at England matches has more to do with a rise in English nationalism?

After all, me feeling more Scottish isn't going to make you feel less British. Any change there is on you.
 
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SouthernR

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So, the government that pesters us to fly the union flag, has done more than most to lead to the break up of the UK. Can we have a without Westminster flag?
 

AlterEgo

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A change in flag use caused by Scottish and Welsh governments is at Football. When England played in 1966 the fans waved Union flags, they now wave English flags.
Euro 96 saw almost entirely St George's flags being waved at Euro 96, predating Welsh and Scottish devolution.
 

Xenophon PCDGS

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Euro 96 saw almost entirely St George's flags being waved at Euro 96, predating Welsh and Scottish devolution.
The St George flag being a red cross on a white background sees its known origins as associated with the Third Crusade. The earliest known origin appertaining to a country was during the 10th century by the Republic of Genoa and after that, it was used as a city symbol in the northern areas of Italy, examples being Bologna, Padua, Reggio Emilia, Mantua, Vercelli. It also became a specific symbol of the Swabian League in the pre-Reformation Holy Roman Empire.

It was only after the Reformation, some 500 years afterwards, that St George became associated as the patron saint of England. St George is also the patron saint of Georgia and of Catalonia. St George's flag later became identified as the national flag of England in more modern times.
 

XAM2175

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Can you deny England supporters wave the English flag whereas they used to wave the Union flag. Is it because Scottish and Welsh nationalism is pushed at the English more than ever?
Are you... upset that England has its own national identity and symbols?
 

birchesgreen

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I was listening to an interesting podcast on St Edmund who was patron saint of England before Edward III changed it to George. Edmund was also the patron saint of pandemics apparently.
 

nlogax

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Can you deny England supporters wave the English flag whereas they used to wave the Union flag. Is it because Scottish and Welsh nationalism is pushed at the English more than ever?

Why on earth do you think this?

Euro 96 saw almost entirely St George's flags being waved at Euro 96, predating Welsh and Scottish devolution.

It feels like we saw the beginning of St George's flags being waved on the terraces en masse back during Italia 90, but yes, Euro 96 was the first to do away with Union flags.
 
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REVUpminster

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A good news Brexit story but I don't suppose anyone here is interested. Brixham fish market is running out of space and needs to expand. There were some fishermen in Brixham claiming betrayal but they are making more money than ever, £800,00 some weeks, second only to Peterhead in Scotland for fish sold. The new market was opened in 2010 and nobody in the industry thought they would outgrow it. The market have applied for levelling up grants to reclaim land to expand.
 

najaB

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A good news Brexit story but I don't suppose anyone here is interested.
Perhaps you could be kind enough to explain how this is a good news Brexit story?

The stories I have found about it contain quotes like:

Torbay Council Cabinet member Mike Morey said: “Investment in Brixham’s harbour and fish market would help secure the future of Brixham’s fishing sector which has been badly affected by Brexit and Covid-19.
 

REVUpminster

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Perhaps you could be kind enough to explain how this is a good news Brexit story?

The stories I have found about it contain quotes like:


old news same writer today. They only have one.
Fish boom town Brixham leads the way as campaign to improve market ramps up - Devon Live
 

bspahh

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It says

Now the campaign - which is looking to use money from a Government fund - has begun to extend the market as the town's fleet sees a boom in the quantity of fish coming in

That is great news if it means they have lots of high value fresh fish being landed, that can be sold at a premium price. Its even better if its exported, so that it brings money into the UK economy.

However, it then says

the port’s profile now means that fish landed as far afield as Lowestoft and Aberystwyth is being brought to Brixham to be sold.

So its fish that has been landed 367 or 221 miles away, and carried by lorry to South Devon. That means the success of Brixham's fish market is at the expense of the ones in Lowestoft and Aberystwyth, and they need space to park lorries that are bringing fish in.

It doesn't sound like its good news for the UK economy, spending government money, to then spend more money moving fish around the country, rather than getting it to the consumer ASAP.
 

ainsworth74

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Again, could you explain how this is a Brexit good news story. At the very best it's a Brexit "no bad news" story.
That is of course the standard we now operate on. As long as a story related to Brexit is "this is no worse than what we had before" then it's a win. See for instance the stories about how the DfT managed to agree a deal that our driving licences would still be accepted (or something along those lines) post-Brexit. It was trumpeted as a triumph rather than just ensuring we still maintained something we'd had before...

The goalposts have moved so far they're not even on the same field of play anymore I swear.
 

py_megapixel

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As long as a story related to Brexit is "this is no worse than what we had before" then it's a win.
I think the kind of nationalist that our government is pandering to subscribes to the idea that Britain is powerful and important enough that it can blag itself the same privileges as the rest of the EU without any of the downsides or any of the responsibilities that come with it. In reality of course that's rarely the case, but it improves the government image for there to be much fanfare when it is

The goalposts have moved so far they're not even on the same field of play anymore I swear.
I'd say this country has been washed a good distance down the drainage ditch at the edge of the field at this point in pursuit of the ever-shifting goalposts. All that's stopped us ending up in the sewerage system is those metal grille things on top of the drains, and cuts to infrastructure spending means that those are gradually rusting and will inevitably give way at some point... :{

I did say no one here would like it and you prove the point.
What we're asking is "How has Brexit improved matters in a way that led to this situation?"
Or, "why wouldn't this be happening if we weren't still in the EU"

The fact that we for clarification need not be interpreted as outright dismissal. Indeed, if our aim was to dismiss your claims completely we would already have done so.
I won't pretend I'm not skeptical - I am - but we genuinely want to understand your line of thinking here.
 

najaB

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What we're asking is "How has Brexit improved matters in a way that led to this situation?"
Or, "why wouldn't this be happening if we weren't still in the EU"
Indeed. For something to be a Brexit benefit then it needs to be something that wouldn't or couldn't have been done if we were still a member state.

Similarly, for something to be Brexit good news it needs to be something positive that didn't just happen since Brexit, but it needs to have happened *because* of Brexit.
 

johncrossley

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Barry Doe is interesting. I'm sure many of us have read his articles over the years and he was on TV quite a bit years ago. One thing that always struck me was how, despite having an encyclopaedic knowledge of British transport, and travels thousands of miles within Britain by train every year, he appeared to have little or no interest in foreign transport (except Ireland) and I have never seen him mention any foreign trips. I just came across his Facebook page, which is unprotected

www.facebook.com/barry.doe.35

and it is clear he is a staunch Remainer.

Three years ago he wrote this:

www.facebook.com/barry.doe.35/posts/1777750405589964

Would I do things differently if I had my time again?. Yes. I wish I had gone to other European countries and learned languages. I might even have settled there. I have no pride in being British today and envy the flexibility and rights that my East European friends enjoy. Is it too late at 71 I wonder .........?

Maybe he thinks he shouldn't travel abroad if he can't speak the local language.

I was surprised by this, because I might have assumed that he would be a Brexiteer, or at least not care so much either way. Maybe he's posted stuff about the EU in magazines, but I haven't read transport magazines for a few years now.

Are there any Remainers here who have no interest in foreign travel?
 

birchesgreen

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Are there any Remainers here who have no interest in foreign travel?
Yes i don't really have much interest in travelling overseas anymore, i did do quite a few long haul trips to Asia in my youth and the prospect of 12+ hours on a plane so i can be too hot and a mosquito banquet no longer appeals.
 

johncrossley

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Yes i don't really have much interest in travelling overseas anymore, i did do quite a few long haul trips to Asia in my youth and the prospect of 12+ hours on a plane so i can be too hot and a mosquito banquet no longer appeals.

But much of Europe has a similar weather to the UK, perhaps a little warmer in summer and a little cooler in winter.
 

birchesgreen

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But much of Europe has a similar weather to the UK, perhaps a little warmer in summer and a little cooler in winter.
The prospect of air travel turns me off, and now all the increased immigration of course. The worry about your cases going missing, changing money et cetera. Nope.
 

alex397

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The prospect of air travel turns me off, and now all the increased immigration of course. The worry about your cases going missing, changing money et cetera. Nope.
Why would increased immigration put you off travelling?
Not trying to be antagonistic, just genuinely curious. It hasn’t had an impact on any of my European travels.
 

najaB

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Does anyone think that Manchester Airport will have any second thoughts about its expansion plans for the airport and the surrounding areas?
Why would they regret it? Brexit is going to be a fantastic success and our economy is going to be booming, or at least that's what I'm constantly told.
 

Annetts key

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Does anyone think that Manchester Airport will have any second thoughts about its expansion plans for the airport and the surrounding areas?
Bristol Airport had their expansion plans rejected by the relevant council. They are currently going through the appeal process…

Even though they publicly say it will be years before they get back to 2019 levels and even though they were below their allowed capacity in 2019.
 

brad465

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France is moving to the Amber list from Sunday. This is relevant here because if this leads to a surge in travel we can see how well the channel crossings can currently cope with the current level of post-Brexit checks (or not).
 

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