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Brexit matters

najaB

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Suppose this or a future government offers a similar "blank canvas" referendum asking whether we should rejoin the EU, would you vote Yes?
That is difficult to answer, as I wouldn't have any detail as to the terms of our potential rejoining. My inclination would be to vote "Yes" though.
Even from outside the EU, both sides (UK & EU) are still free to work together as effectively as they like over the above issues, the Irish Border, battles further afield suck as Ukraine etc.
However, the current government has made a point of being as obstructive as they possibly can.
 
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edwin_m

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Of course, the EU referendum was arranged without the government having a Leave policy yet alone a Leave prospectus.

Suppose this or a future government offers a similar "blank canvas" referendum asking whether we should rejoin the EU, would you vote Yes?

You are of course all welcome to answer, but I'm especially curious how Remain voters would feel?

Of course, in such a scenario we would have no clues about how this would affect trade, our currency, or how much say we would still have on environmental or specific domestic policy for example. It seems unlikely that we could rejoin without joining the Euro, or maybe Schenken either.

Even from outside the EU, both sides (UK & EU) are still free to work together as effectively as they like over the above issues, the Irish Border, battles further afield suck as Ukraine etc.

Discussions about rejoining would take up a huge amount of time that could be used for other legislative matters and dealing with other issues arising. So, I reckon in the event of such a Referendum arising, I would vote No to rejoining the EU.
It's an interesting point, and illustrates how the decision to leave took us away from a very comfortable position that we may not ever be able to return to.

The EU is very rules-driven, so I think it would be pretty clear what options were on offer before any decision was committed, just as it was for the options to interact with the EU from outside during the leaving process. My own preference would be for the UK to negotiate an arrangement first and put it to the people afterwards. But I think it's fairly academic for some years yet - a better short-term objective would be to re-join the single market - but even that's unlikely with our current "leaders" in power.
 

najaB

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…and certain EU member states, or rather their governments haven’t?
In comparison to ours, not at all. As example no EU government has repeatedly threatened to tear up the Northern Ireland agreement because they don't want to comply with the terms.
 

Bald Rick

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Suppose this or a future government offers a similar "blank canvas" referendum asking whether we should rejoin the EU, would you vote Yes?

You are of course all welcome to answer, but I'm especially curious how Remain voters would feel?

Yes, without hesitation.
 

Jamiescott1

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Partly a consequence of brexit but I've been trying to recruit some chefs with decent conditions since September and having very few applicants. Those who do apply dont turn up for interview.
The main hospitality recruitment website has 3400 chef jobs in London currently advertised
 

najaB

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Partly a consequence of brexit but I've been trying to recruit some chefs with decent conditions since September and having very few applicants. Those who do apply dont turn up for interview.
The main hospitality recruitment website has 3400 chef jobs in London currently advertised
It's almost as if the hospitality sector was dependant on labour from the EU. Who could have predicted that?!
 

20Man

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I work for a manufacturing company, and a large part of our work came from the EU, sadly since Brexit we've seen our orders from the EU drop by 40%, the work is there but companies just wont order from the UK now. Talking with suppliers it is the same story across the board, we get regular 'courtesy' calls from suppliers asking what our requirements will be for the next year, when you talk to them they all say the same that all their customers have lost work to the EU. Personally I just need another 3 or 4 years to be able to retire, and hope the company will be able to keep going for that time, it's the younger employees that I feel sorry for.
 

najaB

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I work for a manufacturing company, and a large part of our work came from the EU, sadly since Brexit we've seen our orders from the EU drop by 40%, the work is there but companies just wont order from the UK now.
It's almost as if British manufacturers benefitted from being part of a large single market and customs union. Who could have predicted that?!
 

jon0844

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It's almost as if British manufacturers benefitted from being part of a large single market and customs union. Who could have predicted that?!

Shocking isn't it? And leaving still didn't sort out the immigration problem that almost everyone voted leave for.
 

najaB

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Shocking isn't it? And leaving still didn't sort out the immigration problem that almost everyone voted leave for.
The only immigration problem that the UK had (and still has) is attracting enough people who have the skills that we need.
 

Gloster

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Jacob Rees-Mogg has released a list of his nine Brexit Benefits as suggested by readers of the Express. (Nine. Couldn’t he find ten?) Number two is ‘Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.’ That really makes it all worthwhile. (Number one would make fracking easier.) Most seem to intended to either wreck the environment, or weaken employment or consumer protections.

Sorry, I can’t do a link, but it seems to have been on Rees-Mogg’s @BestForBritain twitter feed, and possibly also on the Express’ website. I found it on thelondoneconomic.com under After consulting Express readers...NINE ‘Brexit Benefits’ selected by Mogg
 

GusB

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Jacob Rees-Mogg has released a list of his nine Brexit Benefits as suggested by readers of the Express. (Nine. Couldn’t he find ten?) Number two is ‘Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.’ That really makes it all worthwhile. (Number one would make fracking easier.) Most seem to intended to either wreck the environment, or weaken employment or consumer protections.

Sorry, I can’t do a link, but it seems to have been on Rees-Mogg’s @BestForBritain twitter feed, and possibly also on the Express’ website. I found it on thelondoneconomic.com under After consulting Express readers...NINE ‘Brexit Benefits’ selected by Mogg
Vacuum cleaners? I didn't think that the Secretary of State for the Nineteenth Century would have known about such things.

Maybe he means feeding eight year-olds fewer calories before they shove them up the chimneys...
 

Smidster

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Sorry, I can’t do a link, but it seems to have been on Rees-Mogg’s @BestForBritain twitter feed
As usual Brexit, and Mogg, is just a complete and utter disaster that is causing real damage for absolutely nothing although I do wish we were in a place where having more inefficient vacuum cleaners was a top priority.

Just to be clear as well - Best for Britain is absolutely not Mogg. They are a group that is the exact opposite of Mogg who want Britain to be an outward looking country with a very close relationship with our partners.
 

Typhoon

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Jacob Rees-Mogg has released a list of his nine Brexit Benefits as suggested by readers of the Express. (Nine. Couldn’t he find ten?) Number two is ‘Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.’ That really makes it all worthwhile. (Number one would make fracking easier.) Most seem to intended to either wreck the environment, or weaken employment or consumer protections.

Sorry, I can’t do a link, but it seems to have been on Rees-Mogg’s @BestForBritain twitter feed, and possibly also on the Express’ website. I found it on thelondoneconomic.com under After consulting Express readers...NINE ‘Brexit Benefits’ selected by Mogg
https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...s-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-suggestions-EU-rules-update

Mr Rees-Mogg’s officials have confirmed more than 2,000 ideas were received. The top nine “most interesting” proposals have now been published.

.....

Nine of the top ideas named from the department are:

1. Encourage fracking, shortcut rules on planning consultation via emergency act.
2. Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.
3. Remove precautionary principle restrictions (for instance) on early use of experimental treatments for seriously ill patients and GM crops.
4. Abolish rules around the size of vans that need an operator's licence.
5. Abolish EU limits on electrical power levels of electrically assisted pedal cycles.
6. Allow certain medical professionals, such as pharmacists and paramedics, to qualify in three years.
7. Remove requirements for agency workers to have all the attributes of a permanent employee.
8. Simplify the calculation of holiday pay (eg 12.07 percent of pay) to make it easier for businesses to operate.
9. Reduce requirements for businesses to conduct fixed wire testing and portable application testing.

A few might be worth looking at but if these are the top nine, I would hate to think what number 999 was. It is a shame Rees-Mogg didn't spend a little less time going round finding which civil servants weren't at their desk and a little more time on the day job
 

eotw

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Wasn't it the EU power limit that made Dyson come out as Brexiteer and move his operation to Singapore?
It was the UK government who wanted the power limited, also it was never 1,400 watts.
Dyson was always a Brexiteer and moved to Singapore for cheap labour and access to Asian markets
 

JamesT

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It was the UK government who wanted the power limited, also it was never 1,400 watts.
Dyson was always a Brexiteer and moved to Singapore for cheap labour and access to Asian markets
Though Dyson did eventually win a lawsuit against the EU over their labelling as the tests were unrealistic and some of his 'lower power' rivals weren't better if tested in more real world conditions.
 

najaB

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An interesting question that I saw in a post online that's worth asking anyone who is still pro-Brexit: If somehow Brexit was to be undone in by the stroke of a pen, what exactly would you miss?
 

Dent

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https://www.express.co.uk/news/poli...s-Jacob-Rees-Mogg-suggestions-EU-rules-update

Mr Rees-Mogg’s officials have confirmed more than 2,000 ideas were received. The top nine “most interesting” proposals have now been published.

.....

Nine of the top ideas named from the department are:

1. Encourage fracking, shortcut rules on planning consultation via emergency act.
2. Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.
3. Remove precautionary principle restrictions (for instance) on early use of experimental treatments for seriously ill patients and GM crops.
4. Abolish rules around the size of vans that need an operator's licence.
5. Abolish EU limits on electrical power levels of electrically assisted pedal cycles.
6. Allow certain medical professionals, such as pharmacists and paramedics, to qualify in three years.
7. Remove requirements for agency workers to have all the attributes of a permanent employee.
8. Simplify the calculation of holiday pay (eg 12.07 percent of pay) to make it easier for businesses to operate.
9. Reduce requirements for businesses to conduct fixed wire testing and portable application testing.

A few might be worth looking at but if these are the top nine, I would hate to think what number 999 was. It is a shame Rees-Mogg didn't spend a little less time going round finding which civil servants weren't at their desk and a little more time on the day job

Most of these are obviously detrimental to safety and/or workers' rights, which says a lot about the morals of anyone who would consider these "benefits".
 

Gloster

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Just to be clear as well - Best for Britain is absolutely not Mogg. They are a group that is the exact opposite of Mogg who want Britain to be an outward looking country with a very close relationship with our partners.

Sorry to all concerned. I presume that BestForBritain were retweeting Rees-Mogg’s original tweets.
 

nw1

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Jacob Rees-Mogg has released a list of his nine Brexit Benefits as suggested by readers of the Express. (Nine. Couldn’t he find ten?) Number two is ‘Abolish the EU regulations that restrict vacuum cleaner power to 1400 watts.’ That really makes it all worthwhile. (Number one would make fracking easier.) Most seem to intended to either wreck the environment, or weaken employment or consumer protections.
Biggest shock there is Mogg is using an SI unit. I'd have expected him to consider SI units as continental, left-wing subversions, and thus outlawed, with their use punishable with prison time due to violation of Article 666 of the "Adherence to Brexit Principles Bill, 2020".

And as for "Nine Brexit Benefits", that sounds rather like something that the Soviet Union or Maoist China would have come up with to defend their regimes. Bet that would please Mogg, being compared to Communists. ;)
 

najaB

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Biggest shock there is Mogg is using an SI unit. I'd have expected him to consider SI units as continental, left-wing subversions, and thus outlawed, with their use punishable with prison time due to violation of Article 666 of the "Adherence to Brexit Principles Bill, 2020".
Indeed. Surely we should be rating vacuum cleaner power in horsepower?!
 

AM9

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Indeed. Surely we should be rating vacuum cleaner power in horsepower?!
The British Empire was using the unit of a Watt from 1882. At that time, it was proposed by Carl Wilhelm Siemens, aka C. William Siemens (anglicised name because he was half German, - like many in the royal family). In 1908, it was adopted as an international standard at the International Conference on Electric Units and Standards in London. It was redefined in absolute terms in 1948 by the International Bureau of Weights and Measures. In 1960 that same body established it into the SI as the unit of electrical power.
So, note that in the real scientific world, xenophobia and petty national attitudes about standards just don't have any traction.
 

Typhoon

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I was surprised he didn't use fractions in No. 8. Five Forty-seconds of your pay.

(I know its not exact but hundredths would reek of decimals and it would take a lot of time for people to realise that they had been done.)
 

jon0844

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Though Dyson did eventually win a lawsuit against the EU over their labelling as the tests were unrealistic and some of his 'lower power' rivals weren't better if tested in more real world conditions.
I would accept that Dyson products were probably a better design than the many ancient technology vacuum cleaners that hadn't been modified for decades. (I still won't buy anything from Dyson and stopped long before Brexit was a thing - grossly overpriced products that aren't anything exceptional.)

Now we're paying 30-40p per kilowatt, what idiot would want a super power hungry product of any type? Oh, yes, those who wish for the good old days. Let's get back to 100w light bulbs instead of those nasty 7w ones too.

If you can't afford to pay £200 a month on electricity, you must hate your country and should leave.
 

nw1

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I would accept that Dyson products were probably a better design than the many ancient technology vacuum cleaners that hadn't been modified for decades. (I still won't buy anything from Dyson and stopped long before Brexit was a thing - grossly overpriced products that aren't anything exceptional.)
Ah Dyson, the Brexiter who, if I remember correctly, outsources much of his production outside of the UK. ;)
 
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najaB

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Now we're paying 30-40p per kilowatt, what idiot would want a super power hungry product of any type? Oh, yes, those who wish for the good old days. Let's get back to 100w light bulbs instead of those nasty 7w ones too.
I have never understood people who bemoan the fact that they can't buy 100W light bulbs. Makes zero sense to me.
 

ainsworth74

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I have never understood people who bemoan the fact that they can't buy 100W light bulbs. Makes zero sense to me.
I think there's an element of almost the ongoing e-tickets having had their reputation ruined by m-tickets to the light bulb thing. The first few generations of low energy bulbs were, in my experience, dreadful. They took ages to actually get to full brightness and even then always seemed dimmer than advertised (you know this bulb is 5w and gives the same light as a 60w bulb type thing). Then LEDs came along which are fantastic and far better than old style bulbs but now that everyone has been exposed to those terrible early low energy bulbs LEDs have an uphill battle to persuade people that they really are the future and actually a lot better than what went before.
 

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