Understanding the issues. Of course there are much wider considerations, but the intransigence of the EU to recognise the particular difficulties that the UK had with FoM contributed to the result. However, blame can be attributed in all directions and throwing it about is not particularly helpful, as we are where we are.
why are you blaming the EU for this ?
Its our governments responsibility to do this.
No government of any colour has truly supported British EU membership, and it was only really post Maastricht that Britain got any gain from it.
Looking back, its clear the approach taken by Cameron was a delibrate aim to undermine the EU. his “demands” were weak, and set to make a referendum, which he hoped to spook the EU with as a threat.
He just didnt realise British people were actually against it, the public stole his negotiating hand and passed it to Brexiteers.
The fault lies there… the clues were all around.. Scottish referendum, peoples apetite to vote for Boaty macboatface… it should have been obvious a vote on Europe was always going to be a protest vote, joined by the naive, the malicious and those who really didnt want to be in Europe Combined to make the vote what it was.
As you say its happened.
The question is really whats next.
I understand, from your background, why you are angry about the end of FoM for UK citizens. This part of the thread was discussing as to why the referendum result was the way it was and the part FoM played in it. Understanding the issues.
Angry, no, passionate, yes very, definitely.
Nothing will change it.
The issues were clear, I grew up around it. Its poverty. Poverty and poor education. This isnt Europes fault. A culture of homes to single parent kids, who have kids to get a house, who repeat the following. A culture of no oppourtunity, a culture of no pride. A culture promoted by media to create anger against the state and to live off handouts.
This was caused by the end of the empire, the cessation of conscript armies invading other countries, followed by exporting populace to build nations.
The cessation of British exporting industry to those colonies and unmanaged decline postwar.
Europes only role in this was WW2. Our industry didnt move to Europe, it just became too expensive and out of date, coupled with bad marketing and poor investment.
As a kid, my time was spent on demolished building sites of former factories, scrap the biggest industry. Brown fields the result, followed by crime, broken windows, grafiti etc. Ive woken to kids smashing houses in daylight, even climbing on my roof.. my youth prepared me for adulthood quite well. My father just coerced it into education for reasons I did not understand at the time, but am eternally grateful since.
The Government needs to invest in its people, it doesnt and never has as long as we are “subjects” not “people”. Brexit isnt going to change that culture. People wont trust government.
if the EU lasts 30-40 years those EUSS’s will be a majority to put us back in. Though by that time, the qualification bar may be too high for us to join, or too weak for us to want to…certainly there is no way back today and definitely not on the terms we had before… but even if it did.. it wont change the above situation.
I’m looking for the oppourtunity in this, which is frustratingly absent, if there was one i’d be on it. So far the best chance Ive seen is importing food from South Africa, which isn't my thing, but if your into food imports, thats surely the big winner, followed by Brazil (not politically correct) /Argentina (Definitely will get British council support), but despite my years travelling worldwide I've really not seen anything that is worthy of taking a risk on.
Further, after the post covid demand bubble passes, the risk of inflation, higher interest rates, stagflation together with a gradual wind down of service, IT, legal, financial services will follow much like it did in Hong Kong. The south isnt the place to be, though the north may find a lower wage pay rise and greater low skilled oppourtunities.
The UK needs to find itself a big spend investor, if its to recover like Hong Kong did.. i’m not sure whos willing to do it… right now i’m not convinced the US is interested, so it might be the middle east…but that needs a gem of an idea for them to buy into.. electric cars wont cut it.
You can’t get by in any country with Chinese as a language. English is the only language where almost every country has a modicum of proficiency.
You’re saying this like I haven’t ever left the country. I’m posting this from the McDonald’s at the mall in Tijuana.
you certainly can get by in Chinese, just not in Anglo environments. Ive used Chinese in Hungary before now for example. China has a community in nearly every country, its used mostly by Chinese for obvious reasons.
I’m kind of wrapping up in this thread as I think theres not much I can add to the debate, but I do have to ask, if your in TJ, why are you foruming here from mcDonalds there ? TJ isnt the nicest of towns, Ensenada and Rosarito are much nicer and only a short drive… though becareful I nearly died driving the wrong way down the freeway there, the signage was so poor.