Broken Level Crossings

[Killingworth]

Sometimes one has to laugh at oneself, like sitting for 25 minutes yesterday waiting for the barriers to rise at Smeafield crossing in Northumberland. Every 3 minutes or so a train to watch. LNER, LUMO, XC and finally a 3 car Scotrail. RTT then says nothing for 15 minutes but still they didn't rise.

By now there are cars waiting patiently on both sides. So I walked forward to the gates and found the phone hiding behind a hedge. Voice from other end with words to the effect "I wondered when anyone was going to call, the barriers are jammed". Seems we'd been seen on cctv and he was already well aware of the situation.

So our intended drive south along the Coastal Route was aborted and back to the A1 and direct route to our destination. As we drove away a Network Rsil incident vehicle waa approaching.

Amusing for us,, but clearly others were not so understanding. There seems to be no easy way to make road users aware of such a situation until someone loses patience and seeks out the phone. In this case it was easy to tell those waiting behind me and all turned to find another route.. Those waiting on the other side seemed to want to carry on waiting. Hopefully the fault was soon cleared.

How quickly should a barrier reopen if there are trains every 3 minutes?

How quickly should appropriate signage be put in place to advise road users of a broken crossing? In rural situations it could be some time.

Whatever, it was interesting to see drivers patiently waiting for the barriers to rise. A contrast with the stories of smashed barriers by those too impatient to wait.

 

[ainsworth74]

I do think it's an interesting question as to how problems with level crossings should be communicated to users. Half-barrier crossings for instance is it more dangerous for users to sit there not knowing or for them to know that the barriers are broken (thinking of the risk of someone swerving around them)? At full barrier locations I would argue the safest course is to communicate as quickly as possible to users as I suspect not many will ram barriers that are down (most incidents I believe are due to people racing the barriers and getting it wrong).

But there is still the question of how to communicate! Perhaps a sign? "If barriers remain down for longer than 10 minutes use telephone to speak to signaller"? Or some other signal that the signaller can activate remotely a flashing "it's all gone tits up, turn around!" warning at the crossing perhaps?

 

[LowLevel]

Road traffic issues at crossings are actually the responsibility of the local police. NR will dispatch someone as soon as possible but it is somewhat inevitable that response times can be anywhere from half an hour to an hour.

The barriers will raise when they raise in normal circumstances, rail traffic takes priority, but the railway is obliged to consider road users as excessive cycle times can encourage misuse by the public which is dangerous.

 

[Llanigraham]

As Low Level says the road issues become the civil Police's problem and Control should notify them when they know of the problem. Certainly from my experience they were quick to deal with congestion when the A49 barriers at Onlbury failed but were less quick when it was ours on a minor road at Bromfield.
And road signage about the problem was the responsibility of the local Council, and we all know how quickly they react.

 

[rower40]

It's my understanding (but I could be wrong) that AHB crossings on 2-track railways have an "another train coming" indication to road users. AHBs can't be across more than two tracks, and it would be an exceptionally-odd layout of a single line that allowed two trains through in close succession!

 

[bluenoxid]

One option might be to “Waze” the affected piece of road and let Sat Navs do the rest.

 

[High Dyke]

It's my understanding (but I could be wrong) that AHB crossings on 2-track railways have an "another train coming" indication to road users. AHBs can't be across more than two tracks, and it would be an exceptionally-odd layout of a single line that allowed two trains through in close succession!

Not all AHB crossings have those signs in place.

Having felt a bit sorry for road users when a full barrier level crossing fails in many cases the signaller has no way of advising motorists waiting forlornly at the crossing. However, like someone mentioned the responsibility passes to the police for traffic management. some CCTV crossing do have public accessible phones, but not all. In the respect of response times for Network Rail staff attending the failure it depends on where the member of staff is travelling from.

 

[Gloster]

...some CCTV crossing do have public accessible phones, but not all...

I would have thought that all CCTV crossings would have, at minimum, a ‘phone link to the signaller. Or have they changed the rules?

 

[High Dyke]

I would have thought that all CCTV crossings would have, at minimum, a ‘phone link to the signaller. Or have they changed the rules?

All CCTV crossings have a phone for the level crossing attendant to use, if they need to speak to the signaller. However, many of these are not accessible to the general public. I cover a location on the ECML where only one CCTV crossing out of six has a phone the public can use.

 

[Killingworth]

All CCTV crossings have a phone for the level crossing attendant to use, if they need to speak to the signaller. However, many of these are not accessible to the general public. I cover a location on the ECML where only one CCTV crossing out of six has a phone the public can use.

To clarify, the crossing I was caught at is full barrier on the ECML. There are several more along that stretch of track. There is a yellow phone box, concealed from waiting motorists by a bush. I spotted it as I was doing a 3 point turn to escape, and because I was saying to my wife there surely must be one somewhere. All other drivers had remained patiently in their cars, the one in front of me leading us away.

The suggestion of a prominent sign giving a number to ring if the crossing has been closed for more than 10 minutes sounds sensible, especially when most of us carry phones and reception is adequate in most locations.

But how quickly should a crossing be opened when there's a procession of fast trains in fairly close sequence? Is a 3 minute service separation insufficient to get the barriers safely open and closed again? It seems even in normal operation there will need to be long closed periods for road traffic.

 

[High Dyke]

But how quickly should a crossing be opened when there's a procession of fast trains in fairly close sequence? Is a 3 minute service separation insufficient to get the barriers safely open and closed again? It seems even in normal operation there will need to be long closed periods for road traffic.

Not always easy to answer that. It depends on the particular signaller/crossing keeper on duty at the location that supervises the crossing. However, in my experience, with so many trains a three minute separation would probably not be sufficient to raise the barriers. Management always wield the big stick of performance at signallers for delaying trains. The crossing sequence will require about 20-30 seconds to lower, and after a train about 10-15 seconds to raise. A train will travel a considerable distance in that time, and the driver would be expecting to see proceed aspects, unless of course they are closely following another service. A motorist sat waiting may lose perception of time when they see one train pass and another is already approaching. I've had people complain to me they've been sat waiting for "20 minutes" whilst two train pass the crossing, when in reality it's probably been no more than about 2-3 minutes. The speed of a train will also have an effect on things.

 

[Bald Rick]

But how quickly should a crossing be opened when there's a procession of fast trains in fairly close sequence? Is a 3 minute service separation insufficient to get the barriers safely open and closed again? It seems even in normal operation there will need to be long closed periods for road traffic.

I was at an ECML crossing recently waiting 25 minutes with the barriers down, as 7 trains went over at 2-4 minute intervals. So a 10 minute ‘call in’ rule isn’t going to work there.

 

[jopsuk]

3 car Scotrail.

That's a confusing detail.

 

[Killingworth]

That's a confusing detail.

Not strictly relevant but it was ECS from Crewe to Haymarket, Class 170. Not a service train but added to the procession. I was accepting that each train was too close to the previous one to allow the barriers to be lifted. It was only after that had passed that I checked RTT and confirmed nothing else could be preventing opening. We'd waited 20 minutes, the chap in front at least 10 minutes before we arrived.

I was at an ECML crossing recently waiting 25 minutes with the barriers down, as 7 trains went over at 2-4 minute intervals. So a 10 minute ‘call in’ rule isn’t going to work there.

It might reassure the motorists and give them a better idea of whether to seek another route.

 

[Bald Rick]

It might reassure the motorists and give them a better idea of whether to seek another route.

It might (or might not) reassure whichever motorist is at the front of the queue, he or she would then need to decide whether to tell anyone else.

Besides, signallers don’t have time to be reassuring however many motorists choose to phone in. On busy lines they are busy signalling trains (and closing level crossings)

 

[GB]

It might reassure the motorists and give them a better idea of whether to seek another route.

Might also be away for motorist to vent at and abuse signallers/crossing keepers.

 

[Falcon1200]

The suggestion of a prominent sign giving a number to ring if the crossing has been closed for more than 10 minutes sounds sensible, especially when most of us carry phones and reception is adequate in most locations.

Which does sound a sensible idea, except for the problem GB mentions;

Might also be away for motorist to vent at and abuse signallers/crossing keepers.

The phone number given for the public to report bridge strikes has often been used for completely different issues, and as this phones rings out as an Emergency Line in Control, it always gets answered immediately, at the expense of other work.

 

[Towers]

The problem of coursewith providing an easily accessible direct telephone, or a contact number, is the potential for misuse from fed up motorists wanting to abuse the signaller at locations with a lot of barrier downtime. Certainly having a great big "Phone to the Signalman" at the roadside by a busy crossing would cause a fair few problems I should imagine.

 

[mike57]

What happens if an emergency response vehicle gets trapped, to take this example:

I was at an ECML crossing recently waiting 25 minutes with the barriers down, as 7 trains went over at 2-4 minute intervals. So a 10 minute ‘call in’ rule isn’t going to work there.

could have a very bad outcome. Can the signaller be contacted to bring everything to a halt to allow it to proceed. Obviously the ERV driver will be aware of level crossings, amd alternative routes, but in there must be cases in rural areas where there are no practical alternative routes to some locations.

 

[Horizon22]

The problem of coursewith providing an easily accessible direct telephone, or a contact number, is the potential for misuse from fed up motorists wanting to abuse the signaller at locations with a lot of barrier downtime. Certainly having a great big "Phone to the Signalman" at the roadside by a busy crossing would cause a fair few problems I should imagine.

Alternatively the lack of an accessible direct telephone might be an issue in an emergency situation. With CCTV crossings that's less of an issue, but the risk remains.

 

[LOM]

Can the signaller be contacted to bring everything to a halt to allow it to proceed. Obviously the ERV driver will be aware of level crossings, amd alternative routes, but in there must be cases in rural areas where there are no practical alternative routes to some locations.

It does sometimes happen. The way it pans out is:

1) emergency vehicle contacts its control room
2) emergency services control room contacts Network Rail control on the private emergency phone number
3) Network Rail incident controller contacts the signaller and arranges to lift the barriers ASAP

It is almost never the appropriate response to replace signals that have been cleared and wait for routes to time out, it is usually much quicker to let any train that has already been signalled pass.

 

[philthetube]

It might (or might not) reassure whichever motorist is at the front of the queue, he or she would then need to decide whether to tell anyone else.

Besides, signallers don’t have time to be reassuring however many motorists choose to phone in. On busy lines they are busy signalling trains (and closing level crossings)

agreed that it would be a bad idea to provide the signallers number, but the number would not need to be the signallers, any office bod could be at the end of the phone line and would need to pass a message on once, and could then just inform other callers as to what is happening. It is a rare enough happening to not need a dedicated person and if info was provided on the notice one person could cover the country.

 

[Neo9320]

agreed that it would be a bad idea to provide the signallers number, but the number would not need to be the signallers, any office bod could be at the end of the phone line and would need to pass a message on once, and could then just inform other callers as to what is happening. It is a rare enough happening to not need a dedicated person and if info was provided on the notice one person could cover the country.

If only there were some kind of network rail helpline available…

 

[Falcon1200]

agreed that it would be a bad idea to provide the signallers number, but the number would not need to be the signallers, any office bod could be at the end of the phone line and would need to pass a message on once,

The 'office bod' would have to be available 24/7/365, and could therefore only be in a Network Rail Control; Who answer the number posted on bridges to report strikes, which is regularly used for other purposes, some important to the caller if not necessarily the railway (eg reporting trapped pigeons) and some utterly irrelevant (eg people on car treasure hunts).

 

[philthetube]

agreed, another phone on the desk which tool lower priority would solve that though, to be answered as a lower priority.

 

[Llanigraham]

What happens if an emergency response vehicle gets trapped, to take this example:

could have a very bad outcome. Can the signaller be contacted to bring everything to a halt to allow it to proceed. Obviously the ERV driver will be aware of level crossings, amd alternative routes, but in there must be cases in rural areas where there are no practical alternative routes to some locations.

If the crossing has failed the barriers are most likely down, so there is nothing the signaller can do, as potentially he could be 100+ miles away.
Even if there is a signaller present, as there was at my Box, it can easily take up to 10 minutes for me to have gone out, unlocked and pumped each barrier up, and that presumes that there is fluid in the mechanism to do that or the mechanism hasn't jammed.
(And to make that even more difficult, due to severely limited clearance, we weren't allowed to get to one mechanism!)

 

[Killingworth]

The crossing that began this thread is one of about 15 in almost 12 miles between Berwick and Alnmouth, some very quiet, others like the one at Beal for Holy Island very busy.

This is the telephone at Liitle Mill. This stretch of line must be a nightmare to control, especially with extra services now being added.

 

[40129]

Something I've often wondered. Is there a minimum time that a level crossing must be kept open to road traffic once the barriers have been raised?

 

[Llanigraham]

Something I've often wondered. Is there a minimum time that a level crossing must be kept open to road traffic once the barriers have been raised?

I was never told of one. I have certainly opened the barriers and almost immediately started the lower procedure, normally because either the annunciator has gone off (UP line) or I've had Train Entering Section on the DOWN.

 

[Gloster]

Something I've often wondered. Is there a minimum time that a level crossing must be kept open to road traffic once the barriers have been raised?

A quick search on the Internet comes up with a figure of 10 seconds (lights going out to lights starting again), but this was 2011. It does seem a bit short and was probably extended where road geometry or the number of tracks required.