Budget 2021 discussion

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Does anyone think that pre-Budget leaks are somewhat cynical?

 

[brad465]

Does anyone think that pre-Budget leaks are somewhat cynical?

They are definitely deliberate for a number of potential reasons, including trying to judge public mood, trying to cushion the bad stuff with good stuff announced ahead of time, and others. The Speaker has lambasted the Chancellor already for the latest leaks.

We're overdue a written constitution for a number of reasons/benefits, but in relation to this I'd have such a constitution ban policy announcements being made anywhere other than in Parliament first, so no leaks/press briefings/interviews featuring subject ministers. Should this be broken/not be complied with, any minister responsible must resign, or if done by a senior civil servant, they'd have to resign. For more serious breaches (which would require some thought to determine severity), I'd suggest even facing criminal charges for whoever is involved.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

They are definitely deliberate for a number of potential reasons, including trying to judge public mood, trying to cushion the bad stuff with good stuff announced ahead of time, and others. The Speaker has lambasted the Chancellor already for the latest leaks.

We're overdue a written constitution for a number of reasons/benefits, but in relation to this I'd have such a constitution ban policy announcements being made anywhere other than in Parliament first, so no leaks/press briefings/interviews featuring subject ministers. Should this be broken/not be complied with, any minister responsible must resign, or if done by a senior civil servant, they'd have to resign. For more serious breaches (which would require some thought to determine severity), I'd suggest even facing criminal charges for whoever is involved.

I'd agree with that.

Back in the 1960s, I think it was, a Chancellor resigned because he let one relatively small detail slip to a reporter while he was on the way to the House to deliver the speech.

That's the standard of confidentiality we should be reverting to regarding the Budget.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

We're overdue a written constitution for a number of reasons/benefits, but in relation to this I'd have such a constitution ban policy announcements being made anywhere other than in Parliament first, so no leaks/press briefings/interviews featuring subject ministers.

Where do you draw the line? The Government must make dozens of policy decisions every day, mostly minor, and mostly announced via various departmental websites. If they all had to be announced in Parliament first, you'd just create masses of extra bureaucracy, prevent timely announcement of numerous Government decisions (especially when Parliament is in recess) and needlessly add to the burdens on MPs' time.

Should this be broken/not be complied with, any minister responsible must resign, or if done by a senior civil servant, they'd have to resign. For more serious breaches (which would require some thought to determine severity), I'd suggest even facing criminal charges for whoever is involved.

Other than breaking with tradition, does announcing policy decisions outside Parliament cause any actual problems?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Other than breaking with tradition, does announcing policy decisions outside Parliament cause any actual problems?

The problem is, these days, is that we inhabit a world of 24 hour news and have become inured to what that so entails.

In an attempt to draw a comparison, could someone well versed in the Stock Exchange explain what their policy is for companies wishing to make selective disclosures.

 

[DarloRich]

lets just save a bit of time with the budget: Rich Tory chums get richer, everyone else can go hang.

is that too cynical?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Remember that the main raison d'etre for this thread will be as soon as the Chancellor begins to name actual items in his Budget tomorrow.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I'd agree with that.

Back in the 1960s, I think it was, a Chancellor resigned because he let one relatively small detail slip to a reporter while he was on the way to the House to deliver the speech.

That's the standard of confidentiality we should be reverting to regarding the Budget.

...or am I thinking of Hugh Dalton in the 1940s?

 

[SynthD]

Other than breaking with tradition, does announcing policy decisions outside Parliament cause any actual problems?

One example from the Bank of England in 2019. Everyone should hear from the Commons or BoE at the same time. Leaks to the press or by tech accident make an unequal playing field. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50849479

Many Bank press conferences are broadcast via video, but there is also a back-up audio feed in case of problems. The audio is available between five and eight seconds before the video.
It meant that high-speed financial traders had access to the words of Governor Mark Carney and his officials before their remarks were more widely broadcast.

 

[WestRiding]

Very underwhelming for the railway industry.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

How to present a tax increase as a tax cut...

Snip from the BBC live feed; can't provide a link because links only go to the top of the feed.

For the benefit of those who can't do images: The bank surcharge tax has been cut by 5%, but corporation tax has gone up by 6%. So the banks were paying 27% tax before, but will now be paying 28%.

 

[gg1]

A reduction in Air Passenger Duty on domestic flights to encourage more domestic air travel.

How very green

 

[WestRiding]

A reduction in Air Passenger Duty on domestic flights to encourage more domestic air travel.

How very green

Jon Trickett MP will be happy, after his vigorous campaigns against HS2 through his constituency. He can't have it both ways. Good luck to internal flights from Leeds Bradford to London as a result, and an impending reduction of what HS2 should have been.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

lets just save a bit of time with the budget: Rich Tory chums get richer, everyone else can go hang.

is that too cynical?

Was there nothing in the Budget in the form of any good news except for those who you mentioned above?

 

[HullRailMan]

A reduction in Air Passenger Duty on domestic flights to encourage more domestic air travel.

How very green

Infinitely better for the economy to have regional air connections at an affordable price where road and rail don’t offer viable alternative journey times.

 

[Simon11]

Very underwhelming for the railway industry.

Why? I think the transport and railway industry has done fairly well considering the state of our finances and is investing a huge amount in the below

• £360 million to modernise ticketing and retail systems, including delivering Pay as You Go ticketing to passengers outside of London

 

[Butts]

A reduction in Air Passenger Duty on domestic flights to encourage more domestic air travel.

How very green

You won't notice any difference in the Fares I am willing to bet !!

 

[najaB]

Infinitely better for the economy to have regional air connections at an affordable price where road and rail don’t offer viable alternative journey times.

No, infinitely better for the economy to spend the money to improve road and rail connections to the point that they can offer viable journey times.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Was it the case that the Chancellor increased the spending in real terms to every Government department in that budget?

 

[Fragezeichnen]

Infinitely better for the economy to have regional air connections at an affordable price where road and rail don’t offer viable alternative journey times.

True, there are some routes where Road/Rail is not viable, but if the aim was to protect those they should have coupled this cut with following the French example and introducing restrictions on domestic flights which offer no journey time advantage over parallel rail services.

 

[najaB]

Was it the case that the Chancellor increased the spending in real terms to every Government department in that budget?

That's the headline. The devil may well be hiding in the details.

 

[gg1]

Infinitely better for the economy to have regional air connections at an affordable price where road and rail don’t offer viable alternative journey times.

No, infinitely better for the economy to spend the money to improve road and rail connections to the point that they can offer viable journey times.

Exactly.

Also there are domestic routes where total travel time (including check in) is competitive to rail for example flights from the M62 corridor to London, these should be heavily taxed, more so than longer distance domestic routes.

 

[najaB]

Exactly.

Also there are domestic routes where total travel time (including check in) is competitive to rail for example flights from the M62 corridor to London, these should be heavily taxed, more so than longer distance domestic routes.

An interesting display of mental gymnastics by the Chancellor, quite impressive really.

The chancellor has denied that changes to air passenger duty will lead to a boom in domestic flights amid warnings it will increase carbon emissions.
Rishi Sunak used his Budget to slash taxes on flights between airports in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.
Labour's shadow chancellor said it was "astonishing", coming a week before the COP26 climate summit.

Rachel Reeves said people should be encouraged to use trains instead.

Budget 2021: Rishi Sunak defends lowering domestic air duty

Labour says making flying cheaper in the UK is an "astonishing" move ahead of COP26 climate summit.

www.bbc.co.uk

Maybe I've missed something, but surely the point of cutting duty on something is to make it cheaper so that more of it gets sold?

 

[brad465]

An interesting display of mental gymnastics by the Chancellor, quite impressive really.

Budget 2021: Rishi Sunak defends lowering domestic air duty

Labour says making flying cheaper in the UK is an "astonishing" move ahead of COP26 climate summit.

www.bbc.co.uk

Maybe I've missed something, but surely the point of cutting duty on something is to make it cheaper so that more of it gets sold?

Either he's being stupid, or he's gaslighting.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Either he's being stupid, or he's gaslighting.

He most certainly is not stupid.

 

[stevetay3]

There was nothing in it for anyone except for the very rich like his wife, I believe he even reduced mr amazons tax burden, quite how you make a reduction from nothing anyway I do not know.

 

[Kez]

That's the headline. The devil may well be hiding in the details.

Particularly given Rishi Sunak's track record.

Remember the much lauded Green Bond for investment in green projects that was announced last spring ?

It just came on stream. 0.65% p.a. for 3 years. A complete joke when you can get a far greater return even on money in the open market. I struggle to understand why anyone would invest.

Snake oil anybody ?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Particularly given Rishi Sunak's track record. Remember the much lauded Green Bond for investment in green projects that was announced last spring ?

It just came on stream. 0.65% p.a. for 3 years. A complete joke when you can get a far greater return even on money in the open market. I struggle to understand why anyone would invest.

When this Green Bond was first intimated, what was the Bank Rate of the Bank of England at that time as a comparative?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

In an attempt to draw a comparison, could someone well versed in the Stock Exchange explain what their policy is for companies wishing to make selective disclosures.

Announcements which may affect an individual quoted company's share price on the stock market (such as, good or bad annual results, or directors buying or selling personal shares) are required to be first made by the RNS (= Regulatory News Service) an hour before the London Stock Exchange opens for trading, i.e. at 7.00 a.m., which then gives the market the opportunity to digest the news before trading commences.

 

[Kez]

When this Green Bond was first intimated, what was the Bank Rate of the Bank of England at that time as a comparative?

Announced Nov 20 :

UK Government Green Financing

The Green Gilt and NS&I’s Green Savings Bonds help finance the transition to a green economy, tackling environmental challenges and creating green jobs across the UK.

www.gov.uk

when interest rates were exactly as they are now (0.1%).